Hey shipmates, pardon if this is a dumb question but I've always subscribed to the notion that the only dumb question is the one you do not ask...


I'm an OSVET new to the Navy Reserves and just got my uniforms issued. I'm trying to get them squared away as soon as I can.

Looking at Navy Uniform Regs Article 4221 E4-E6 rating badges;

SERVICE DRESS BLUE: NAVY BLUE BACKGROUND, WHITE/SILVER EAGLE SPECIALTY MARK, CARDINAL/GOLD CHEVRONS, CARDINAL/GOLD SERVICE STRIPE.


What is the difference (besides color obviously) between the 2 Ratings Badge? I was just going to get the Blue/Red for by SDB jumper but was wondering if the Silver/Gold meant something else, or if it rated something else, or whatever it meant.


At the Navy Exchange Service website, under the description for both it lists as required for wear on the SDB uniform.

Thanks!

HM3 N

And yes, I could ask shipmates at my command, but I don't go back to drill for 3 weeks and want to get started squaring my trash away now.

quote:

Originally posted by mdn919:
was wondering if the Silver/Gold meant something else, or if it rated something else, or whatever it meant.

12 years continuous good conduct...

A little more technical - the wearing of gold requires 12 continuous years of eligibility for a good conduct medal.

Did it go back to continuous years? That requirement was dropped in the mid-70s for just 12 years of eligible service. All of a sudden the guys that were only going to get gold on reaching retirement, because they had that one slip up right after the first re-enlistment, were able to swap over to gold at the 16-year mark.

Copied from Uniform Regs:

4232. GOLD RATING BADGE AND SERVICE STRIPES. Personnel whose most recent 12 cumulative years of Naval active or active reserve service meets requirements for Good Conduct Service (that which meets minimum requirements for performance, conduct and evaluations marks for the Good Conduct Award) shall wear gold rating badges and gold service stripes on Dress Blue uniforms, Dinner Dress Blue uniforms and Dinner Dress Blue/White Jacket uniforms. The 12 years may be active or drilling reserve time in the Navy, Navy Reserve, Marine Corps, or Marine Corps Reserve. Times excluded are: delayed entry programs, inactive reserves and broken service. Under broken service conditions - resume the cumulative time count upon active duty reenlistment or upon enlisting in the drilling reserves.

4233. CONTINUED WEARING OF GOLD. Once qualified to wear the gold rating badge and gold service stripes, the qualification continues through the duration of an enlisted person's service, providing they continue to meet minimum conduct, performance, and evaluation mark requirements for a Good Conduct Medal or Naval Reserve Meritorious Service Award. On the date the individual fails to meet the minimum standards, the gold rating badge and gold service stripes must be removed from the uniform. Additionally, if an individual is convicted by court-martial or Non-Judicial Punishment (NJP), the gold badge and gold service stripes must be removed from the uniform on the date the conviction becomes final within the meaning of Article 76, Uniform Code of Military Justice. The privilege to again wear the gold service stripes/rating badge may only be earned by fulfilling the requirements listed in <4232>.

Note that the key words are ".. most recent 12 cumulative years.." which requirement is the same as continuous within the boundaries established for branch and class of service status on active duty or drilling reserve. Also note, that if convicted by NJP or court martial, a new 12 year period starts.

MT - your example could be interpreted as meeting the 12 continuous year rule. 4 year first enlistment, mess up, then 12 more years would be close to the 16 year point. Remember that you do NOT have to be awarded the GCM for the service to be creditable for gold. And you can put the gold on at a time other than an anniversary date. In other words, at 16 years, 7 months and 3 days eligibility could be achieved for gold without having received a GCM for some of the most recent service.

Also, note the word "shall" related to the wearing - in other words, once eligibility for gold is achieved, no choice, put it on.

I ain't know about nowdays, but it took me 16 years worth of hash marks to finally rate Gold ones.

quote:

Originally posted by RiverRat139:
I ain't know about nowdays, but it took me 16 years worth of hash marks to finally rate Gold ones.

So Senior Chief, what happened???... Did you hit the beach a lot with CBM Franks???. You know, back when the two of you served in the San Pablo. You started out in China service serving in Gun Boats right??

When you tacked on that 3rd class crow you wore it on your right sleeve too I betcha'??

Hehehe, speaking of 3rd Class crows...almost lost mine in WESTPAC before I sewed it on. I'm sure the River Rat and the IC2 can relate.

Either by divine direction, or CG HQ nervousness, when the Coast Guard changed uniforms back in 1976 ,all CPOs, whether earned or not, got a pass and ended up with gold . No connection needed to good conduct. Many of the older farts breathed a sigh of relief.

River, I would have got them by close to 16 also. But the first four sure were FUN.

Rat - In our day it took 13 years of Good Conduct Medal eligibility. You probably chose not to replace your red with gold at the 13 year point, instead, waiting for the next requirement to add a hash mark at the 16 year point to go gold.

quote:

Originally posted by YN1Mike:
Hehehe, speaking of 3rd Class crows...almost lost mine in WESTPAC before I sewed it on. I'm sure the River Rat and the IC2 can relate.

Yes I can Mike!!!

On the beach behavior almost put me aground on “Danger Shoals” also. We were on our way back from a tour around Rome and I had imbibed on waaaayyy to much “Dago Red”. All of us E Div members had. (I had been promoted to IC3 about a month previous) We had one of the Ops Dept LCPOs with us, a young ETC, who was the senior Rated man on the tour…. Instead of saying something to me/us (PERFECT EXAMPLE OF BACKDOOR PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE TRIANGULATING BEHAVIOR) he kept quiet as a mouse.

(The majority of us on the bus were Engineering Dept members, with a heavy dose of M&B Div BTs and MMs, meb’e he thought we’d gang up on him, I dunno?)

Anyway he told my LCPO an ICC, I’m going to send “Buck” to mast and get him busted! But ICC Mxxxxxx, being the good man he was stuck up for me and said, no you are NOT!!!.....

Anyway, I have always wondered about this and BTW, thanks Mastersmate for the above graphics…
My question is, when did the Navy institute the tradition of Gold Rating Badges and Hashmarks for 12 years Good Conduct? The reason I say this is, as I referred to earlier about CBM Franks in “The Sand Pebbles” he is wearing 5 red hashmarks on his dress blues, which as we all know indicates 20 years or more service. Mastersmate or who ever, do enlighten us please..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IC2SS19Z50C5,

U.S. Navy uniform regulations of 1886 -

"For petty officers, enlisted in their ratings by reason of holding three consecutive good conduct badges, the chevron WILL be made of gold lace, instead of scarlet cloth."

U.S. Navy uniform regulations of 1905 -

"Continuous service stripes .... For permanant petty officers holding three consecutive good conduct badges, the continuous service stripes ARE to be made of gold lace, instead of scarlet cloth."

Mandatory use of the silver embroidered eagle and specialty mark wasn't until 1930. It could have been thread embroidered up until then.

Yup, the CBM in Sand Pebbles could have possibly had a service record that would make interesting reading.

FWIW, Sand Pebbles and Cruel Sea, both outstanding reads, have been reprinted and are available on the Navy Exchange Uniform Shop web site.

Had an E3 on the Saratoga that had four hashmarks. I can't remember what happened to him but his nick name was yo yo and you didn't call him that to his face either.

God knows I love listening to / reading the comments of my FELLOW Old Bass--Turds

quote:

Originally posted by Mastersmate:
U.S. Navy uniform regulations of 1886 - "For petty officers, enlisted in their ratings by reason of holding three consecutive good conduct badges, the chevron WILL be made of gold lace, instead of scarlet cloth."



Yup, the CBM in Sand Pebbles could have possibly had a service record that would make interesting reading. FWIW, Sand Pebbles and Cruel Sea, both outstanding reads, have been reprinted and are available on the Navy Exchange Uniform Shop web site.

Mastersmate, thanks for the edification on my question. I did not realize gold for good conduct went that far back.

Yes, I have a first edition hard cover of “The Sand Pebbles”, and as you say it is an excellent read. You mentioned CBM Franks, yes the crew of the “Sand Pebbles”, now there is group of “Rate Grabbers”… Leading the crew of the Sand Pebbles in that regard is EM2/c Harris, (Foulest Mouth in The Navy) played by Ford Rainey.
(Rainey was one year younger than my Dad and Rainey also served in the U.S. Coast Guard during World War II ).
There is a quick shot of EM2/c Harris in a white jumper…He has five hash marks, now only one of two things… He kept having trouble with passing the fleetwide exam for EM1/c or mebe’ just had trouble keeping on the straight and narrow..

This message has been edited. Last edited by: IC2SS19Z50C5,

We had an E-5 onboard (a TM2 I believe) who was golden. His hair was white, he had tons of medals and everyone called him "Pops". He was the most knowledgeable man onboard. It was a sad day when he left the ship. Not sure if he retired or went to another duty station.

As an OSVET myself the key words that got me are "... most recent 12 cumulative years of NAVAL active or active reserve service ..." I ended up waiting until the 17 year mark.