This thread has rules. The requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old.
(Modified after executive discussion further on down the thread 12/23/08 )

RiverRat made the suggestion a while back on another thread and it sounds like a good idea. Its for us old farts (fathers against radical teenagers) to poke fun at todays PC world and Navy.

My first btch is how the Navy has taken perfectly good rates and combined them into one big rate where nobody can be super proficiant at their job.
Example: IT, combined computers with radioman.
I know a bit about both and used to know a lot about radio so it doesn't make a bit of sense to me. Sure both things are close but nobody can show or tell me how you can be an IT guru who is up on networking and related subjects and transmitters, recievers and satelites and microwave transmissions. Even the Navy breaks the stuff down into specific NECs.
Is it to save costs on the different rateing patches or storage space for em. Or is it the fact that the Navy ran out of ideas for the symbols that would designate the rate. What do you have to know to make Chief? Guess the old brain cells can't adjust to artificial downsizing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: GerryRM3,

Oh, I like the idea of this thread! I qualify on the age restriction, for sure!

I guess my biggest complaint is that there doesn't seem to be room in the Navy for fun, anymore. By that I mean so good old fashion hell-raising fun! On the beach or on board. It seems everyone is too busy trying to 'cover their numbers' in the higher ranks.

Next on my list is the apparent (to me) lack of risk-taking. Perhaps that is a subset of not having fun. We have become a 'risk-averse' society and it shows in the Navy. I grieve that. Perhaps that's why we *****-foot around the Somali-based pirates. Time to do some 'urban renewal' with the appropriate 'tools'.

Mack the Knife
CDR USN (Ret)

<<stepping into the lions den>>

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! It's commander MACK!!!!

Welcome back sir, we missed ya! !!!!

Howdy, Pilgrim! Yeah, it's me.

My brain is still functioning, on some level, anyway. Been doing crazy things. See my thread on "bowl names" and you'll note that my craziness has increased. Nice to be missed, thanks.

Mack the Knife
CDR USN (Ret)

BRAVO ZULU Gerry!!! Thanks for starting a thread for all of us “Oldsters”. At 57.5 I’m glad I made the age cut. I must concur with The Skipper, CDR Mack about today’s overwhelming tendency of the military on being so “risk-averse”. All branches of the service use the “risk assessment matrix”, which is ok, but a side effect is that it seems to build in a tendency for responsible individuals to cloud their minds with a lack of common sense. Trust me I see it on a daily basis at work. An outgrowth of the lack of "No Fun allowed" syndrome I’m sure. Although at last Months local USMC Birthday Ball, the USMCR had the “lets have fun” down to a science… It was hands down THE BEST military formal function I have ever been to!!!!

And Gerry I’m with you on all the rating combining.. My hot button is the Mass Communications Specialist rating. I mean it seems every time I visit Navy.mil I see glaring typos and technical errors. Makes me sad…

(Takes a quick look around)

Hi, Mack! Welcome back!

(Beats hasty retreat before anyone realizes I am only 48....)

As Cdr Mack stated, no one seems to be having any fun anymore. I left in 1990 with my 20 and for the most part, we had a blast! (almost 58)

Speaking of fun - my Lady and I each had a birthday in the past few days. We were born 6 days apart. (Ok, ok - and a few decades or so, but what the hell...). We had a blast celebrating! Everyone should have this much fun.

On top of that we are launching our new company - so 'risk-taking' is part of our vocabulary. Maybe the new 'rulers' in DC should take a page from our handbook - better yet, they should give us a contract and we'll tell 'em how to do it!!

"Mack the Knife"
CDR USN (Ret)

quote:

Originally posted by catherine0830:
<<stepping into the lions den>>

HOLY CRAP!!!!!! It's commander MACK!!!!

Welcome back sir, we missed ya! !!!!

WHACK!!!

Who let the kid onboard our ship?

Guess we can forgive one discrestionary venture to old timers land. Just don't let it happen again.

Hi Ya Mack. Kick Kline would you. He's a baby.

Anyone that has the gall to complain about the living conditions aboard a 21st century USS, should be keel hauled!!!

Yes, and I would add "today's Navy" in general as well...

I've been thinking, yes I know its unlike me, but I was wondering why don't we make the requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old. It'll give the kids who did their time some input at least.

Any depper found here is to be shot, hanged and generaly railroaded out of town. I would hope the honorable mods of the forum would back us up on that last by deleting any post from the little cherubs.

Any thoughts?

quote:

Any depper found here is to be shot, hanged and generaly railroaded out of town. I would hope the honorable mods of the forum would back us up on that last by deleting any post from the little cherubs.

Any thoughts ?

WHACK..!!!!!

BoatsBM1

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3:
I've been thinking, yes I know its unlike me, but I was wondering why don't we make the requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old. It'll give the kids who did their time some input at least.

Any depper found here is to be shot, hanged and generaly railroaded out of town. I would hope the honorable mods of the forum would back us up on that last by deleting any post from the little cherubs.

Any thoughts?

Thank you Gerry.

Why waste perfectly good ammo on a depper? Methinks they could be better put to use cleaning the hull below the waterline if and when they come in and mouth off.

Alright. Sounds fair to me. Especially since I am now allowed in here. {takes a look around} {sniff, sniff} Smells kinda old and musty in here...I kinda like that.

But I thought the saying was "you're as young as you feel"????

OK, here's one for you all.....I remember when a Navy officer had one star, they were called Commodore (very historic, very traditional)...Not Rear Admiral-Lower Half or some such....I heard they changed because 'one stars' at the Pentagon didn't like answering the phone "Commodore So and so" because whoever was calling would say, Hey! I was calling the Admiral! Or, "put a REAL Admiral on the phone!!!"

Had Commodore Leahy for the CO of ComDesRon 12. He was a Captain. Quite the colorfull dude. Used to wear a smoking jacket on occasion and boy did he like his tea.
It was different in the sixties because a lot of the senior people served in WW2 and Korea. Great guys to learn from.

Hindsight is indeed 20/20. I regret that I never pulled a tour on a Tin Can. I turned down orders to USS Adams (DDG-2) in the late 70's before transferring to the Reserve side of the house.



RM2/YN1 (RET)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FordhamMike,

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3:
...I was wondering why don't we make the requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old.

So is their a waiver for those of us who Offically retired, who receive a retirement paycheck, but who only served 18years due to the drawdown?

quote:

I remember when a Navy officer had one star, they were called Commodore (very historic, very traditional)...Not Rear Admiral-Lower Half or some such

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3: Had Commodore Leahy for the CO of ComDesRon 12. He was a Captain.

This was one of the reasons they changed it. There were one star positions as Commodores but also Captain positions that were also Commodores.

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3:
...I was wondering why don't we make the requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old.

So is their a waiver for those of us who Offically retired, who receive a retirement paycheck, but who only served 18years due to the drawdown?

Or that have over 20 but are still on active duty?

I agree with CDR macks post, they don't let you have fun any more. I am going to relate a story.


Way back in the 70's I struck up a casual friendship with a JO. In fact he got back to his ship in the back of my pickup a few times. Fast foward To about 8 9 years ago. The JO is now a retired captain and our sons attend the same private school and play on the same pony league baseball team. We both get there early and he says to me lets go have a couple of drinks before the game. We go to this quonset hut with a deck that had a bar in it over looking the field (trust me that is gone now)Something to do with we should not drink around kids or something. Anyway he turned to me and said Tony I would not last 6 months in todays navy. Now this is a man who is a retired four striper who commanded two ships. I said you got to be kidding, you did very well, and why do you say that. I will never forget what he said.

THEY DON'T LET SAILORS HAVE FUN ANYMORE

Gerry, As for what they did to our rate RM I can sort of see how they did it. I think you were out of they navy before satcoms became big. Basically they are 100 percent reliable. Broadcast is screened by computers (navmacs)and traffic is sent via Cudix (at blazing speeds)Now this was 20 years ago. Imagine what they have now. The way I understand how it works a message comes in and is automatically routed to the departments thay need to see it. Outgoing traffic is sent via the terminals in the various departments. This system was tested on the USS Nimitz over 20 years ago.So basically all a Radioman has to do today is change they crypto and from what I understand that may be automatic also. Now all that really leaves the guys is to support the bridge and CIC with their various circuits. They had a system that came in during the 80's called the single audio system. If used properly you could set up a whole freq plan and forget it for the rest of the cruise barring equipment malfunction. From what I understand even this system is outdated and something newer has taken its place. So basically a Radioman today is a monitor of computers so hence the combanation of DS DP RM to make a IT.


Now if all the satelites fail and you have to go HF, I think the USN is basically screwed. they may of may not do exercises anymore I have no idea. As you and I discussed in another post HF is a art unto its own.


Now to change the subject a bit I am trying to figure out how a Wave with about 3 years service has more ribbons then I do. A veteran of 22 years and served in Vietnam. Or my father who served in WW2 and Korea (he did have 8 battle stars on his WW2 service medal). Not jealous just curious.

quote:

Now to change the subject a bit I am trying to figure out how a Wave with about 3 years service has more ribbons then I do. A veteran of 22 years and served in Vietnam.

Must have been one hell of a party.

Point the mods in the right direction tl23455.
I hate posers.

I can see why they combined the rate from that point of view but if you just think about the whole picture and break it down further and go to microwave transmissions and equipment and switching systems you've got a heavy technical load there. After it gets through that you've got your computer systems and routing. Then it gets into unix and the other stuff, which I'm no expert at.
Now your going to say its up to the ETs to take care of that end, and your right to a point, but we were trained to be technicians back then. Theoreticaly we could build a transmitter and reciever when we got out of "A" school. Walker and his gang screwed the pooch and the whole training command for radio and communications got realigned. "A" school for radiomen is no longer anything like the training we had. Remember I'm talking learning morse code and such. Boy I'me glad thats gone. I never used it after school as everything was voice and teletype, the precurser to todays communications systems.

quote:

Originally posted by 93Corvette:

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3:
...I was wondering why don't we make the requirements for this thread as retired from the Navy after 20 or a Navy vet over 50 years old.

So is their a waiver for those of us who Offically retired, who receive a retirement paycheck, but who only served 18years due to the drawdown?

Thats retired honorably so the waiver is granted. We'll just call you junior.

William. Anybody who can survive the PC bull for over 20 years deserves to be here. I modified the rules on the first post so we don't scare away anybody whos qualified.
We keep going this way and we may just ask for our own subforum.

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3
Remember I'm talking learning morse code and such. Boy I'me glad thats gone. I never used it after school as everything was voice and teletype, the precurser to todays communications systems.

Come on Gerry, I'm younger than you (I just qualified this month to be a member of the Royal Order of Curmudgeons) but I used morse code on my first boat. I seem to remember that the LORAN stations used morse code identifiers and we occasionally had to use morse code with flashing light (the other ships' signalmen hated us because we were so slow with it). In fact, that was part of our training for helmsman and lookouts that I implemented to be able to read flashing light. Of course, I was on subs so we were a little "different".

Whew! No more getting caned.

I am not sure if the problem is that the navy won't let itself have fun...or if the leadership is afraid of having fun. When one PRT failure can kill your chances of being advanced, imagine what a good party could do?

(Poking head up and looking around)

Darn I am only 49.5. Guess that makes me a semifogey around here. But I will read and enjoy.

quote:

Originally posted by mpwimmer:
(Poking head up and looking around)

Darn I am only 49.5. Guess that makes me a semifogey around here. But I will read and enjoy.

At 49.5 you can join AARP--All they want is your money. They really don't care about you as a living breathing person. Kinda like our elected officials.

Seriously, in a couple more months you're gonna be not just a "Grumpy Submarine Troll," but a full fledged Sarcastic Senior Civilian. Meantime have a Guinness on me.

quote:

Originally posted by PO1_Kline:
Whew! No more getting caned.

I am not sure if the problem is that the navy won't let itself have fun...or if the leadership is afraid of having fun. When one PRT failure can kill your chances of being advanced, imagine what a good party could do?

Nah, it's more like too many folks never learned there is a time and place for everything, and forgot the old maxim "what happens at (fill in the blank) stays there".

quote:

Originally posted by mturnb:

quote:

Originally posted by GerryRM3
Remember I'm talking learning morse code and such. Boy I'me glad thats gone. I never used it after school as everything was voice and teletype, the precurser to todays communications systems.

Come on Gerry, I'm younger than you (I just qualified this month to be a member of the Royal Order of Curmudgeons) but I used morse code on my first boat. I seem to remember that the LORAN stations used morse code identifiers and we occasionally had to use morse code with flashing light (the other ships' signalmen hated us because we were so slow with it). In fact, that was part of our training for helmsman and lookouts that I implemented to be able to read flashing light. Of course, I was on subs so we were a little "different".

Flashing light and morse didn't go away when I was in, I just said I never had a use for it after school. The commsta I was at had a reciever station that was also the morse center. We at the HQ area used the teletype and KWs.
If you ever worked with NBA you dealt with Farfan reciever station for morse and HQ for teletype. Your VLF stuff also came from us.

Now about the fun part of things. The Chiefs always kept us on a leash but it was a real long one. We knew what could happen if we went to captains mast and avoided it for the most part. We just didn't have the restrictions on living life like the kids do today.
We drank, smoked, chased and caught woman and enjoyed the hell out of it and all that before women were let in the service. After the females got onboard ship it was all about PC and not offending their sensablities or the officers who ended up with extra sensativity training because of Tailhook. The Navy got pussified.

I have to agree about the fun part. Many of the adventures that CDR Mack has regaled us with would not be permitted in today's Navy. I doubt they would even allow the arrangement that we had in Thailand. We were moored in Sattahip which is a good bus ride from Bangkok. One of the senior chiefs checked out the route and made sure that we had a long stop at a place about halfway to make sure we could get relaxed and have a little "recreation" before we finished the trip into Bangkok. This was about as far from PC as you could get but it sure was fun.

I had a CO on one of my boats deliver beer (Molsons Blue, to be exact) to watchstanders in the propulsion plant. No, we weren't underway, just steaming along at a place with no shorepower.....

Try doing that in the "kindler gentler Navy" and you'd have you head handed to you....

Well, you'd have to be a curmudgeon at this point to recall the fun days of pulling into port at Subic Bay/Cubi Pt....I saw some recent pictures taken by a FEDEX pilot buddy of mine and it's pretty depressing...They had families shacked up and living in the club buildings, the BOQ was full of local families...The NEX has been turned into a Philippine-version of a K-Mart.....The place is gone for good...Pretty sad

I also recall seeing the pictures of Clark AFB after we abandoned it. Seems it didn't take long for some folks to strip the base housing to the bare walls.

Right back at ya River

20 years ago I transfered from a Permit class boat to a LA class boat. I did not know I was also getting transfered to a different navy. I echo the viewing of uptight O's. My first boat was a lot of fun and the second one was a bunch of people trying to get promoted by butt kissing.

Ok going back to the corner before I get the cane.

quote:

Originally posted by mpwimmer:
Right back at ya River

20 years ago I transfered from a Permit class boat to a LA class boat. I did not know I was also getting transfered to a different navy. I echo the viewing of uptight O's. My first boat was a lot of fun and the second one was a bunch of people trying to get promoted by butt kissing.

Ok going back to the corner before I get the cane.

semi-whack
Damn kids. Can't take em anywhere.

We actually had a lot of fun and sometimes with the officers knowlege and approval.
One of the great moments was the unauthorized procurment of the Army mule from it stable in the Canal zone. Joe d who retired a few years back reminded me of the night he and two buddys got smashed and decieded it would be a good thing to give the CO of the base at COM15 the mule for an Army Navy day present.
They got past the guards and promptly deposited said mule in the COs enclosed yard by the main gate to Ft Amador. While trying to keep a strait face the comm officer told them it wasn't such a good idea and they should return it. However the COs wife had seen the beast and raised a bit of a tiff since it was naturaly trying out the tasty fauna in the yard. Back went the mule and everybody had a good laugh except we think for the guards.

I'll never forget the Commo on the Ike a very long time ago. He was a P-3 Driver by trade. One night he rescued a bunch of us OPS types from a liberty cancelation at the hands of the SP in St Thomas. Not a word was heard back aboard the next day.

Gerry, your Tin Cans saved our bacon once and it was a sight worth describing.

I recall in San Diego Boot Camp seeing one of these Destroyers going out the stream, those bent tip stacks and low fantail in the water made it look fast and like a fighter.

Many years later during the Korean gig my Team was dropping off some British Commandos at their Island in a Bay where the mainland was held by the N. Koreans. I was in an LCPR coming back from and Island run and as I neared our Mother APD, a big splash occured just about 40 yards Starboard, then another. We were ordered to cast off as the APD began backing full to the stern with anchor dragging. Three of us in the LCPR finally realized a N. Korean artillery piece had zeroed in on the APD, then us in our LCPR. But, alas, all is not lost. From around a Peninsula the N. Koreans did not see came a Tin Can, bent stack, fantail under a rooster tail. The Tin Can got between us and the artillery piece and with one swoop fired all 6 of its 5"/38's at the same time. I had never seen all six fired from a ship at once. Suddenly the mountain the artillery piece was encaved in was no longer a cave, but rather a cave hole with a landslide covering it. We 3 in the LCPR gave a hand salute to the Tin Can and we proceeded to the Island, a$$'s still attached.

I suspect the Tin Can was a 700 series Sumner Class because they look speedy and fighter like.