As part of long range planning, I would like your opinion on this. Be honest.... POLITE, but honest!

Question:
Do you think Gays In The Military should be a separate forum, or do you think that the topics covered here should stay in the main HT forums?

Choices:
GITM is a needed forum, and should remain as is.
GITM is not needed, as all topics here could be covered in the regular forums.
GITM is needed, but too many topics are posted here that should be in other forums.
Why are we talking about Happy people in the military? ;-)

 

quote:

Originally posted by Silent_Surface:
As part of long range planning, I would like your opinion on this. Be honest.... POLITE, but honest!

I'm torn between the second & third choices.

It is nice to have a forum where gays & supporters can discuss various aspects relating to gays in the military. A quiet eddy for support and meditation, as it were.

Having said that, it's equally important that we throw thoughts & ideas into the whitewater of the general populace to test them as they would be if sent to a real world population. For this cause, P/CP works well as a surrogate real world audience.

I think that if we can share gay subjects and articles in both GITM and P/CP, then option three, "GITM is needed, but too many topics are posted here that should be in other forums."

But, if every gay related topic is going to be shoved over to GITM automatically, then no, GITM needs to close. Truth & facts allow most gay topics to withstand real world attacks, and P/CP is a good training and proving ground for that purpose.

DaleU, I will agree with you 100%.

I'm torn between the second & third choices as well based on what you have written.

Post 'em in the regular forums

I agree with biggatorsc. Only a few people interested in "gay" issues bother to even visit this area, let alone offer an opinion. Whereas in the P/CP and InTheNews areas, thousands of people read and participate in the topics.

That goes for DADT, too. In the past, that topic in P/CP has generated some of the most interesting exchanges I've ever seen on the topic. Why should some topics be "hidden" or be considered verbotten areas for discussion?

quote:

Originally posted by dupontgaf:
I agree with biggatorsc. Only a few people interested in "gay" issues bother to even visit this area, let alone offer an opinion. Whereas in the P/CP and InTheNews areas, thousands of people read and participate in the topics.

That goes for DADT, too. In the past, that topic in P/CP has generated some of the most interesting exchanges I've ever seen on the topic. Why should some topics be "hidden" or be considered verbotten areas for discussion?

You're agreeing with me? WTF is goin' on here?

My opinion:

If we do end up taking GITM away, all others besides general discussion/P/CP should follow suit.

We should just have two areas:
Point CounterPoint
General Discussion

In my eyes, it wouldn't be fair to the rest of military.com to single out gays and wrap up their discussions some place else. Maybe it would be better to only have two areas. Just my thoughts.

FPM, I think you're onto something there.

I'd like to add, if all of this happens it's a death knell for our boards.

Sure, we'd have the same 30 or more people here, but the simple fact we put them all together..just kinda points to the fact that things are slowing down.

I've heard, back in the day, there were hundreds of people posting. I feel, this is because no one group got their petty little way. Maybe the GH area started it, but I think we're finishing it up.

What would help, a lot, would be for those of you who are hot on one topic and one topic only to branch out a little. Post new topics on something, anything else. This goes for a few gays, right/left wingers and religious folks out there. You scour the web for new content, it makes this place better. You go and tell your friends, get them to start posting, this place will be better.

But if you keep hammering the same point over and over, letting it spill out and up so MODS and higher have to deal with it, I feel it runs people off.

Just look at when I started posting, late last year. We had more people then. We had more diverse people then. Now?

Sadly, I see it's going down hill. Maybe it goes in cycles, as I'm new and haven't seen it yet. Everything does, but it seems to me that all we have are little groups left. Little pockets of the most extreme who huddle together and only lash out on their favorite subject and ignore everything else.

Just my thoughts, once again.

FPM, the closer we get to an election, the worse the place gets. It has always been that way.

Stand by. You'll be busy, I'm afraid.

As for abolishing the GITM forum altogether, Zack, I fear it would give a certain few license to demand that all discussion on these topics be banned entirely.

Option three, or the status quo, seems to be the most measured approach. I know that some of us have long experience of seeing hot debate in this area of the forum, but in my opinion that is not its purpose. GITM is an area for, as it says, gays in the military, and those who wish to discuss what it's all about, the good and the bad. If there is a point/counterpoint thing going on, my preference is that it be done in the forum that is specifically set up for that, P/CP.

It doesn't happen often, but it happens regularly that someone who is gay and is in the military, or thinking about it, will pop in here with a question to be answered. I can think of no better folks to answer the questions of what this life is all about, the sacrifices and joys as well as the realities of this draconian, labyrinthine policy, than the people that hang out here. If we clutter this place up with argument threads, then it loses some of that value as a source of information in all of the static.

I'm rambling again....I guess what I'm saying, in short, is that I'd like the arguments to be kept to the argument area, and the frank discussion of gays in the military to the GITM section.

Point/Counterpoint type threads are banned in the Navy forums. I'm not suggesting that we do that here, but it highlights the different purpose for P/CP that makes it unique from all the other forums on Military.com. It is the one area of this site where arguments are not only encouraged, but where they all belong by definition.

This is a separate post from my last for a reason. I normally would just edit my earlier post, but what I'm going to say now doesn't fit well, and should be more distinct.

First, you guys are doing an amazing job of putting up with me. I know I'm a pain...just ask Uhler. Once I got rid of the mod yoke, I went wild for a while. I've calmed down A LOT, but I still speak up when I see things that I feel are not right. I guess it's just part of being "middle enlisted." FPM in particular has exhibited extraordinary restraint, and this is spite of our earlier enmity. Kudos.

Second, you're doing a really good job of dealing with the situation that you were handed. It is a regret of mine that my personal issues with your boss have caused you some hardship. He's smart enough to log off when his "work" is done, so you guys are always left holding the bag when we blow our top about it (perhaps me more than others.) I recognize that what happened (a few days in a row) is not your fault, but ya know what? The mild harassment comes with the job. I know how much you all get paid, so I feel your pain.

Third, and this is for Zack, I meant what I said about abiding by your decision on this, whatever it is. If you all huddle in the secret-squirrel forums and decide that we're to be banished forever to the ghetto, well, I may complain about it for a couple hours, but I'll ultimately understand and abide by it 100%. What set me off is not that the threads were moved (again, and again,) but that they were moved in contravention with YOUR stated policy, and without the courtesy of warning or a POC. It seemed sneaky to me, and it still does. I got mad that I could watch this guy cut you off at the knees for a week straight while pretending it wasn't happening, and I wanted to do something that would force some open discussion of this on the mod forums. Could I have done it quieter? Yeah, but I'm certain I accomplished the mission in the shortest possible time period, so take from that what you will.

Whatever you decide, I personally will abide by it. Hell, I never create new threads anyway. Just, as a team, be consistent, and tell us what the hell is going on.

Personally I don’t see anything wrong with the way things are now. Why close a forum? All of this started by a moderator moving around some threads. Seems to me the problem was/is with the moderator, not the forums.

The “Gays in the Military” forum serves a very good and valuable purpose, as has been stated by Bleah. Perhaps once DADT is history and gays are allowed to serve “honestly” and without fear of being discharged simply for being gay, then the forum may have outlived its purpose but until then I would not like to see it close.

As for gay topics being posted on P/CP, that IS the correct place for many of these subjects, regardless of what a particular moderator thinks. These threads have been some of the most active and have opened many worthwhile discussions, discussions that would not have happened on the “Gays in the Military” thread.

The bottom line in this, “If It’s Not Broke, Don’t Fix It”.

I don’t see it as being broken.

Got it. Thank all of you for your input. Most of you echoed my own feelings on the matter.

It is my intention to leave things pretty much as they are. Threads that are started in GITM, I will assume that this is where you wanted them, and they will be left here.

If a thread is posted in any of the other Hot Topic forums that is GLBT related, if it is generating page hits and responses, it will normally be allowed to play out where it was posted, unless the OP requests it be closed or moved, or it becomes a thread with gross TOS violations and becomes a breeding ground for warnings and suspensions. (How do you like that for a long sentence?)

If a GLBT thread does have GITM connotations, such as DADT, Gay personnel discharged, etc, and it starts to play out in one of the other forums, it will probably be moved to GITM.

If it does not have GITM connotations, such as "Gays Getting Married, and Nobody Seems to Care" or similar threads, they will normally be allowed to die a normal death in the forum where posted..

If threads are moved by the Hot Topic Moderators, we WILL take credit for it. If one of us moves a thread without annotating who did it and why, I will deal with that, and seek to correct the issue.

Guys, Gals..... If you feel that a thread was moved unfairly, or that Gay topics are being targeted, PLEASE, bring it to me first, and give me a shot at correcting the issue. I personally believe that I am unbiased as far as this issue is concerned, and will do my best to come to a fair resolution. If the situation gets high visibility, as it did this last time when the threads were moved anonymously, the issue and resolution may very well be taken out of my hands.

In this last instance, the question of whether or not Gay Threads should be moved to GITM was referred to the Home Office.... and they offered up their opinion on it. For now, it is a suggested course of action, but not in line with my plans for these forums, so I am quietly working to keep our destiny in our hands.

Next time, we might not be so lucky. If directed to follow their course of action, of course, I will have no choice. It would then be either comply or resign. I feel that I have done some good with Hot Topics, and hope that I can continue to move in a positive direction, so my only real option would be to comply.

Any questions, my email is freely available. You can email me directly, or, if you feel uncomfortable with me having your personal email address, use the Mil.Com system. Emailing me directly is much more reliable, however.

Zack

This thread and poll are now closed.