Obama: I'll End "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"

President Pledges to Support Gay Rights as Advocates Claim He Hasn't Followed Through on Promises

(AP) President Barack Obama pledged to end the ban on homosexuals serving openly in the military in a speech Saturday, but acknowledged to a cheering crowd that the policy changes he promised on the campaign trail are not coming as quickly as they expected.

"I will end 'don't ask-don't tell,"' Mr. Obama said at the annual dinner of the Human Rights Campaign, a gay civil rights advocacy group.

He did not give a timetable for the repeal of the law passed by Congress in 1993 and signed by President Bill Clinton, who also promised to repeal the ban on homosexuals in the military but was blunted by opposition in the military and Congress.

"We should not be punishing patriotic Americans who have stepped forward to serve the country," Mr. Obama said. "We should be celebrating their willingness to step forward and show such courage ... especially when we are fighting two wars."

"I appreciate that many of you don't believe progress has come fast enough," Mr. Obama said. "Do not doubt the direction we are heading and the destination we will reach."

Mr. Obama also called on Congress to repeal the Defense Of Marriage Act, which limits how state, local and federal bodies can recognize partnerships and determine benefits. He also called for a law to extend benefits to domestic partners.

>>>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/10/politics/main5376469.shtml?tag=stack

It sounds all good and well but there is no reason to hedge on a time table. I can see no reason to not repeal DADT right here and now.

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Originally posted by Vicdude:
It sounds all good and well but there is no reason to hedge on a time table. I can see no reason to not repeal DADT right here and now.

I agree. Could it be that....he's playing politics with the issue? Nah, surely not. This guy doesn't play 'politics,' does he? What's his problem? He could end DADT with nothing more than a presidential decree instantly.

In the words of Barney Frank: "there is a legislative process" and progress can't happen overnight"

In the esteemed halls of congress, wheels are turning in the right direction. In two years we may have little to talk about in this section of Military.com

The process is stalled, and has been the entire time I have been serving. A little of the leadership and/or "fierce" advocacy that candidate Obama promised would be nice a few months ago.

The secretary of state has done more to promote domestic equality for gays than the president has, and her portfolio covers foreign affairs. That's pretty freaking sad, considering the promises this particular white house sold the community.

quote:

Originally posted by Bleah:
The process is stalled, and has been the entire time I have been serving. A little of the leadership and/or "fierce" advocacy that candidate Obama promised would be nice a few months ago.

The secretary of state has done more to promote domestic equality for gays than the president has, and her portfolio covers foreign affairs. That's pretty freaking sad, considering the promises this particular white house sold the community.

I confess. I don't understand why legislation from the congress is necessary. Can't the president simply issue an executive order. Was DADT put into effect with legislation? I don't remember, but I think Clinton issued an executive order that brought it about, NO?

DADT is a DoD policy that governs enforcement of a law passed by congress banning known homosexuals from serving.

The law is that known homosexuals cannot serve. The DoD policies define what the department considers to be a known homosexual.

It's actually a lot more complicated than this, which is why the policy has been in court for some reason or another for the entire 16 years of its existence, but the simplified version above describes it perrty well. It also shows why I prefer to call this policy a ban rather than using the acronym.

obama is nothing without the support of the elected and the elected will not go against the people. So dream on it is what it is. I think we should got after them and court martial them all now.

quote:

Originally posted by Bleah:
DADT is a DoD policy that governs enforcement of a law passed by congress banning known homosexuals from serving.

The law is that known homosexuals cannot serve. The DoD policies define what the department considers to be a known homosexual.

It's actually a lot more complicated than this, which is why the policy has been in court for some reason or another for the entire 16 years of its existence, but the simplified version above describes it perrty well. It also shows why I prefer to call this policy a ban rather than using the acronym.

So then, all that's necessary for homosexuals to serve is for them to remain mum about orientation?

Since orientation neither adds nor detracts from military requirements to serve, and the primary issue is the needs of the military....isn't DADT an effective tool for accomplishing recruitments by rendering orientation a non-issue?

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:

quote:

Originally posted by Bleah:
DADT is a DoD policy that governs enforcement of a law passed by congress banning known homosexuals from serving.

The law is that known homosexuals cannot serve. The DoD policies define what the department considers to be a known homosexual.

It's actually a lot more complicated than this, which is why the policy has been in court for some reason or another for the entire 16 years of its existence, but the simplified version above describes it perrty well. It also shows why I prefer to call this policy a ban rather than using the acronym.

So then, all that's necessary for homosexuals to serve is for them to remain mum about orientation?

Since orientation neither adds nor detracts from military requirements to serve, and the primary issue is the needs of the military....isn't DADT an effective tool for accomplishing recruitments by rendering orientation a non-issue?

Are you sure you are a lesbian Kathy? You know good and well that remaining "mum" about orientation is not the only requirement. You are also required not to "act" on it. In other words, you aren't allowed to date anyone, marry anyone, or have sexual relations with anyone of the same gender. Heterosexuals can fornicate until their peepee's fall off and no one is gonna discharge them for it. NO, DADT is NOT an effective tool for accomplishing recruitments. It is nothing but a way to keep kicking out homosexuals who are serving their country.

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:
So then, all that's necessary for homosexuals to serve is for them to remain mum about orientation?

Since orientation neither adds nor detracts from military requirements to serve, and the primary issue is the needs of the military....isn't DADT an effective tool for accomplishing recruitments by rendering orientation a non-issue?

So, "Kathy"; since you are a lesbian as well as a Captain in the Army, I'm sure your experiences of hiding your orientation would prove quite valuable to others in these discussions.

Would you care to share some of your experiences regarding all your struggles to ensure your orientation remains hidden?

This may help others, you know?

quote:

Originally posted by Paul_J:

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:
So then, all that's necessary for homosexuals to serve is for them to remain mum about orientation?

Since orientation neither adds nor detracts from military requirements to serve, and the primary issue is the needs of the military....isn't DADT an effective tool for accomplishing recruitments by rendering orientation a non-issue?

So, "Kathy"; since you are a lesbian as well as a Captain in the Army, I'm sure your experiences of hiding your orientation would prove quite valuable to others in these discussions.

Would you care to share some of your experiences regarding all your struggles to ensure your orientation remains hidden?

This may help others, you know?

My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army. However, during my tenure of service, I found that discretion is the better part of valor....to borrow an old axiom. There were NO...."struggles."

Let me make a point for y'all who seem to have difficulties. There are MANY thousands of gay/lesbian servicemembers who conduct themselves in a manner that doesn't jeopardize their service for every ONE who doesn't. Drop your agenda and concentrate on the reason why you volunteered.

quote:

My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army.

How do you retire a commission? Are you saying you're a retiree? And if not, are you in the Reserves or IRR now?

quote:

Originally posted by dupontgaf:

quote:

My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army.

How do you retire a commission? Are you saying you're a retiree? And if not, are you in the Reserves or IRR now?

Following two tours of service in Vietnam, I became a reservist. My understanding is that....once one reaches the age of 60, she becomes eligible for 'retirement' and is no longer subject to recall and said commission is 'retired.'

Well, then, if you are a retiree, then you are subject to the UCMJ. I surely hope you're not having lesbian sex with anyone, as you'd be violating the UCMJ. Were you aware of that? It's just one of the many continuing indignities that GLBT service members have to face.

Repeal of DADT and the requisite amending of the UCMJ will fix that.

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:

quote:

Originally posted by dupontgaf:

quote:

My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army.

How do you retire a commission? Are you saying you're a retiree? And if not, are you in the Reserves or IRR now?

Following two tours of service in Vietnam, I became a reservist. My understanding is that....once one reaches the age of 60, she becomes eligible for 'retirement' and is no longer subject to recall and said commission is 'retired.'

So you became a reservist and didn't have to worry about your life being under a microscope 24/7/365 like on active duty. That explains EVERYTHING! You went to war and then came home to "play" soldier one weekend a month and two weeks out of the year. Not even in the same league as serving active duty, Kathy! Sure, its MUCH easier to hide being a homosexual when your life is 99% civilian and 1% military. I don't think you'd have the same experiences had you tried to have a career on active duty...just sayin.

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:
My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army. However, during my tenure of service, I found that discretion is the better part of valor....to borrow an old axiom. There were NO...."struggles."

Ah, I see, so you were celibate the entire time you were in the Army. You didn't have a girlfriend/gay lover the entire time, even on leave? Or was your gay lover with you in Vietnam? Or did you realize you were gay later in life? Did you come out of the closet with yourself after your commission was "retired"? Or during your "tenure of service" ( ).....you were discreet and hid your gayness? Did you ever hold your gay lover's hand? Did you ever write your gay lover a letter? What if you had been caught? Did you and your gay lover go to Thailand on R&R, hoping that no one there would recognize you? Maybe you were just lucky that no one caught you and your gay lover? Maybe it wasn't because you were good at deception and discretion; perhaps it was more luck than anything else?

How exactly were you discreet? Please share so others may benefit from your vast experience of being gay.

quote:

Let me make a point for y'all who seem to have difficulties. There are MANY thousands of gay/lesbian servicemembers who conduct themselves in a manner that doesn't jeopardize their service for every ONE who doesn't.

Really??? And how do you know this ratio .....MANY thousands to one ? Did you conduct a poll? Did you talk to "MANY thousands of gay/lesbian servicemembers"?

quote:

Drop your agenda and concentrate on the reason why you volunteered.

What agenda are you talking about? Their agenda of wanting equality? Their agenda of wanting to be treated with the same dignity and respect as others? Their agenda of wanting to be free of hatred, bigotry, and intolerance?

"Your agenda"? Don't you mean to say "our agenda"? Since you are gay, you are also hated by others. Therefore this would be your "agenda" also, would it not? Do you not want to be treated fairly? Do you not want your basic rights to be hired and fired based solely on your merits and not the fact that you are homosexual? Do you not want to be free from harrassment by people who hate you and want to harm you solely because you are gay?

Do you have a significant other? How does she/he feel about all this? How does she/he feel about your self-hatred (for being gay) and hatred of other gays?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Paul_J,

quote:

Originally posted by dupontgaf:
Well, then, if you are a retiree, then you are subject to the UCMJ. I surely hope you're not having lesbian sex with anyone, as you'd be violating the UCMJ. Were you aware of that? It's just one of the many continuing indignities that GLBT service members have to face.

Repeal of DADT and the requisite amending of the UCMJ will fix that.

I'm a civilian now and no longer subject to the UCMJ; but, even if I were, I'd abide by the 'don't tell' provision.

quote:

Originally posted by badbard:

quote:

Originally posted by 21194237:

quote:

Originally posted by dupontgaf:

quote:

My commission has retired; I'm no longer a member of the Army.

How do you retire a commission? Are you saying you're a retiree? And if not, are you in the Reserves or IRR now?

Following two tours of service in Vietnam, I became a reservist. My understanding is that....once one reaches the age of 60, she becomes eligible for 'retirement' and is no longer subject to recall and said commission is 'retired.'

So you became a reservist and didn't have to worry about your life being under a microscope 24/7/365 like on active duty. That explains EVERYTHING! You went to war and then came home to "play" soldier one weekend a month and two weeks out of the year. Not even in the same league as serving active duty, Kathy! Sure, its MUCH easier to hide being a homosexual when your life is 99% civilian and 1% military. I don't think you'd have the same experiences had you tried to have a career on active duty...just sayin.

Short of asking how many times YOU'VE been under hostile fire, I won't respond to your effort to denigrate my service, nor will I let you know how many times I was recalled to active duty before retirement.

Please keep the discussion civil- Discuss the issue, not the personalities.