I'm young and soon I'll be a part of the army, and as of now, I'm good with the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. But lately, everyone seems to be changing their opinions about it. What do you all think?

I agree with don't ask don't tell. However I am a navy wife and I have several gay friends, but I do not think that openly gay people should be able to serve in the military for several reasons. For one their own safety (other service members may be less likely to help them, maybe more likely to hurt them) There are several homophobic people in the world, and the simple principal for me is our service members have been trained for all kinds of things and if someone is real uncomfortable or is pushed to a certain limit for what reason you never know what someone may do

Wow, you're so right. I mean, although I have gay friends, I don't agree with the lifestyle. And that's an excellent way of putting it- it's just the way the world is, and you never know what someone may do, especially under a high pressure situation.

Then it is those people who should be expelled from the military in disgrace, not gay people. It is the people you describe who are unworthy of our nation's toil, honor, and uniform.

Our nation needs only the best. That includes those who can work with anyone, no matter what their race, creed, color, religion, gender or sexual orientation. If you can't focus squarely on the fact that this person is your American brother in arms, ignoring all dividing lines, you don't belong in the uniform in the first place.

Gay or str8 -- sex while deployed or underway, PDA in uniform -- both are strictly forbidden under the UCMJ.

Being gay shouldn't be a crime. Get rid of Don't Ask Don't Tell, and let the UCMJ do its job. There's no need to single out one group of Americans.

Considering unbecoming behavior -- commanders should really crack down on the grotesque tales of wild sexual exploits the str8's constantly feel the need to boast about, seemingly out of insecurity in their sexuality. This rubbish is distracting, unbecoming and it defiles the uniform. NOBODY should be talking like that in uniform.

Having a portrait tucked inside one's helmet of their same-sex partner? There's nothing unbecoming as long as the portrait is clothed.

Do you really want to serve in a military where str8's could lie and say they are gay just to get out of their contract or a Draft?

If an individual is not fit to serve, that is one thing, but there should be no laws exempting any class of Americans from military service.

That's what DADT does -- it states that Freedom only wants your back and blood if you are willing to lie about your identity. If you tell the truth, such as to your buddy who wants to know if you are dating anybody or if you have any plans for the weekend, Freedom doesn't want you any more.

Honesty is vital to honor and integrity.

I think we should just keep Don't ask don't tell.

if we keep dont ask dont tell I simply ask that no "straight" member be allowed any special rights

ie
no leave to see thier spouses
no calls, emails, communications stating I love you to members of any sex or facicimle thereof
no wedding rings
no pda of any kind on or off duty
the list goes on and on...but if you want to keep DADT..lets even the playing field

I'd prefer a
Don't Know Don't Care
policy

quote:

Originally posted by nomeansno123:
if we keep dont ask dont tell I simply ask that no "straight" member be allowed any special rights

ie
no leave to see thier spouses
no calls, emails, communications stating I love you to members of any sex or facicimle thereof
no wedding rings
no pda of any kind on or off duty
the list goes on and on...but if you want to keep DADT..lets even the playing field

That would sure get TRICARE out if its financial trouble wouldn’t it?

quote:

Originally posted by mab_neo:
That's what DADT does -- it states that Freedom only wants your back and blood if you are willing to lie about your identity.

You're not lieing, you're just not saying anything. Who wants to hear whether you're gay or not? No one. No one cares. So just keep your mouth shut and do your job. You don't have straight people running around tapping people on the sholder saying "Just so you know, I'M STRAIGHT!!!" No one cares. Let it be. Don't ask, don't tell. When you're in the military, your personal life is put to the side. When you leave work, do whatever you want, but while at work, keep it to yourself, nothing wrong with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Meyers10:

quote:

Originally posted by mab_neo:
That's what DADT does -- it states that Freedom only wants your back and blood if you are willing to lie about your identity.

You're not lieing, you're just not saying anything. Who wants to hear whether you're gay or not? No one. No one cares. So just keep your mouth shut and do your job. You don't have straight people running around tapping people on the sholder saying "Just so you know, I'M STRAIGHT!!!" No one cares. Let it be. Don't ask, don't tell. When you're in the military, your personal life is put to the side. When you leave work, do whatever you want, but while at work, keep it to yourself, nothing wrong with that.

We DO have to lie almost constantly. We have to appear straight so that nobody asks questions, nobody starts speculating. When asked, “what did you do this weekend?” you have to “change the names to protect the innocent”. This isn’t about “telling” people we are gay. This is about NOT getting discharged if someone happens to find out. The only reason gay people have to TELL you they are gay is because you all presume we are straight. If you “don’t care” so much, how about giving up all those bennies you get for being married?

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:

quote:

Originally posted by Meyers10:

quote:

Originally posted by mab_neo:
That's what DADT does -- it states that Freedom only wants your back and blood if you are willing to lie about your identity.

You're not lieing, you're just not saying anything. Who wants to hear whether you're gay or not? No one. No one cares. So just keep your mouth shut and do your job. You don't have straight people running around tapping people on the sholder saying "Just so you know, I'M STRAIGHT!!!" No one cares. Let it be. Don't ask, don't tell. When you're in the military, your personal life is put to the side. When you leave work, do whatever you want, but while at work, keep it to yourself, nothing wrong with that.

We DO have to lie almost constantly. We have to appear straight so that nobody asks questions, nobody starts speculating. When asked, “what did you do this weekend?” you have to “change the names to protect the innocent”. This isn’t about “telling” people we are gay. This is about NOT getting discharged if someone happens to find out. The only reason gay people have to TELL you they are gay is because you all presume we are straight. If you “don’t care” so much, how about giving up all those bennies you get for being married?

Well it's one thing to broadcast your sexuality while on the job, it's another to keep your mouth shut and someone happens to find out. In that case, I say let it be, leave that person alone. This issue is tricky. I said this in another discussion, but if you wanna read a great argument check out "WHAT HAVE WE BECOME" and look up DukeScout's posts. Bleah has some well written counter arguments, although I think DukeScout makes better points.

We just had Non Judicial punishment yesterday at my command. Eight people for inappropriate
Sexual relations. Two discharges, six people got 45 days restriction, and possibly some divorces down the line. All straight. I guess that means the gays and lesbians aren’t the only ones out there telling lies.

There ya go, gays aren't the only ones. Everyone's gotta keep secrets

Gay people have faced controversey since the begining of time. It isn't human nature to be accepting, which is probably the purpose of DADT.
There will always be a minority (and not a small one either) that will not like serving with gays.

What DADT doesn't account for is that American society is liberalising over time. What is considered "conservative" now would be labled as "liberal" in the past.

Even if DADT were to be replaced by an "open door" policy, it would be a purley symbolic move. There would be no spousal benefits and
no TRICARE.

i like the dont ask dont tell. but if your extreamly girly, like squeeky voice and like to use your wrist, theyre gonna make fun of you or just gonna pick on you. but whatever, if your gay and want to join, and dont mind people making fun of you, than do it.

quote:

Originally posted by djusesamac:
Even if DADT were to be replaced by an "open door" policy, it would be a purley symbolic move. There would be no spousal benefits and
no TRICARE.

At first no, but it will include those things in time. Small steps. Not being discharged if someone happens to find out your are gay is a HUGE one. Far from "symbolic".

quote:

Originally posted by Meyers10:
You're not lieing, you're just not saying anything. Who wants to hear whether you're gay or not? No one. No one cares. So just keep your mouth shut and do your job. You don't have straight people running around tapping people on the sholder saying "Just so you know, I'M STRAIGHT!!!" No one cares. Let it be. Don't ask, don't tell. When you're in the military, your personal life is put to the side. When you leave work, do whatever you want, but while at work, keep it to yourself, nothing wrong with that.

Well said. During the time that I was in (1963-88), homosexuals were actively prosecuted. Nevertheless, there were some left, and most folks didn't care. It didn't seem to be a problem.

The question is not whether we will have queers and Lesbians in the service - we will. The question is what regulations will work out best for the service (and if they will all work out well enough, what will work best for the greatest number of potential service members).

My limited experience suggests that forbidding homosexuality worked out pretty well for the Navy, and ended up with some homosexuals serving, particularly females. Of course, it might not have been so pleasant for the homosexuals, some of whom may have had a constant fear of getting caught.

What is not known, at least by some, is what would result if homosexuality were permitted. However, we could always find out the hard way.

quote:

Originally posted by Meyers10:
I'm young and soon I'll be a part of the army, and as of now, I'm good with the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy. But lately, everyone seems to be changing their opinions about it. What do you all think?

Setting my opinion of homosexuality itself aside, I'm partly inclined to agree with Congressman Ron Paul who said in last night's Republican debate, "we don't get our rights because we are 'gay or women or minorities,' we get our rights as individuals."

These are not his exact words but this is the jist of what he said:

If homosexual behavior disrupts the military it should be removed and if heterosexual behavior disrupts the military it too should be removed.

Ron Paul said that he doesn’t think about the policies as they pertain to groups, people are not groups; people are themselves individuals and what group you say they belong to doesn’t define them.

The only issue I have is a matter of propriety. Why should homosexuals be allowed to share sleeping and showering facilities with the sex to which they're attracted if (rightly) we don't allow heterosexuals to do so. The only way to fairly accommodate homosexuals is to also stop having separate sleeping and showering facilities for women.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chancellor,

quote:

Originally posted by Chancellor:
The only issue I have is a matter of propriety. Why should homosexuals be allowed to share sleeping and showering facilities with the sex to which they're attracted if (rightly) we don't allow heterosexuals to do so. The only way to fairly accommodate homosexuals is to also stop having separate sleeping and showering facilities for women.

Considering that sleeping and showering facilities are only shared in Basic Training and schools, I am all for it. Let's do 1-1 rooms! PLEASE allow me not to have to bunk with 60+ hormonal, teenage women during training and school! I beg of you!

Do you REALLY think that those that have to deal with having their Battle Buddies in their back pockets won't think this a wonderful idea?

Being a heterosexual, married female who has been married for so long she isn't even attracted to other guys anymore (well, she might be, if they'd quit opening their mouths and ruining everything), I'd MUCH rather bunk with a bunch of males than a bunch of females ANY day of the week!

Males, after lights out, spend their time doing fun things...like mattress surfing and playing tug-of-war with sheets tied together. Females spend their time after lights out yelling at one another. The ones that are trying to sleep are yelling at the ones that are still awake and chatting...and the ones that are chatting are yelling back at the ones trying to sleep. It ends up with everyone pissed off and no-one getting sleep.

Who would YOU rather bunk with? Give me the tug-of-war!

So sure, I'll bunk with the heterosexual males. No problem. I know how to say "no" where it doesn't seem like any other word.

Of course, if there are other heterosexual females there, especially the 17-18 years olds, the males may wish they were pretty little birds flying far, far away....as during that tug-of-war, they'll get yelled at by the females trying to sleep, and yelled at by the females trying to chat.

And, of course, any 3 of us are on our periods during every day of the week, so you can just imagine the showers.

Peace,
Caliann