Hi, I was just wondering if anybody knows this. If you have ever read about WW2, they have always said that Noncoms of both sides were issued MP40's\Thompsons. But the thing that baffles me is that I have seen some pictures of NCO's on either side carrying a standard issue rifle, i.e. an M1 Garand, or gewehr 43\ karabiner 98k. Is this just because that the NCO's had a choice of what weapon they wanted, or just that they ran out of Thompsons\MP40's? I'm just curious, but if you could please post, that would be great
Thanks!
Kenny

This message has been edited. Last edited by: leatherneck448,

There was far less concern over who carried what back then. If you had ammo, and was able to carry and fire it, no-one really cared...much.

Unlike today's sniveling panic attacks over "non-standard issue".

Also it really depended on what type of non com you're talking about. A medic might carry a smg because he doesn't want to lug around a bulky M1 all over the place. the thompson was useful in close quarters combat, and so was more saught after in the pacific theatre of operations. European battles often included standoffs at long distances however, and have you ever tried to put a cluster more than a meter square on a thompson at more than fifty yards? It's impossible. Pluss, the thompson was not exactly a calashnicov. It was sensitive to dirt and jamming to a greater degree than other weapons being used. Plus, 45. rounds were much harder to come by than M1 rounds. Also, soldiers were given much more emphasis on the one shot one kill ideology. The spray and pray methods of the Thompson were meant for the trenches, not the fields.

quote:

Originally posted by blackbelt989:
Also it really depended on what type of non com you're talking about. A medic might carry a smg because he doesn't want to lug around a bulky M1 all over the place.

A medic wouldn't carry anything in those days...because not even the Nazis would shoot a medic. It's different nowadays. Second, the problem with the Thompson was that it was bulky for a SMG. As a matter of fact, it weighed about the same as the Garand! It was shorter, but really heavy. Also, it was expensive to produce, so usually only officers and NCOs carried it. Despite what we see in the movies and video games, the M3 Grease Gun was more common as it was lighter and dirt cheep to make.

Non-coms would carry the M1 Carbine. Low on stopping power, but only about five pounds, and it got the job done if you had good round placement.

quote:

Originally posted by leatherneck448:
Hi, I was just wondering if anybody knows this. If you have ever read about WW2, they have always said that Noncoms of both sides were issued MP40's\Thompsons. But the thing that baffles me is that I have seen some pictures of NCO's on either side carrying a standard issue rifle, i.e. an M1 Garand, or gewehr 43\ karabiner 98k. Is this just because that the NCO's had a choice of what weapon they wanted, or just that they ran out of Thompsons\MP40's? I'm just curious, but if you could please post, that would be great
Thanks!
Kenny

The German issued captured 1911s, Hi-Powers, Tommy guns to their own troops alot; they also did this with captured Russian guns, too.

The Germans did not have enough automatic weapons for every soldier, on the Eastern Front; firing a submachinegun from a foxhole was an excellent way to survive a Russian human wave attack. Many German soldiers ditched their Kar98k bolt actions for MP28s, MP34s, Beretta 38/42(s)Thompsons, Garands, Johnson, and M1 carbines. Firepower rules the day and woe betide those who donot acknowledge this fact.

I agree, those who forbid U.S. troops to use captured AKs(or like arms)they should be epelled from their leadership position(s).

SMGs in WW2 were used to balance a squad's firepower before the advent of the assault rifle. It's hard to know the context of photos and battlefield pickups have always been a fact, especially with motor/mech troops and their ability to carry extra weight.
Those photos with leaders and non-historical TO&E weapons may have traded for a weapon more suitable to their current situation.
I knew a NCO who always "traded" his M16 for a M203 within his squad. As a leader he liked the ability to put smoke markers on a target as a C&C tool.
As far as using opfor weapons, it has to be strictly controlled since it can cause force-on-force problems. EVERYBODY has to know you are using it or it can draw attention from your own side, especially at night if tracer color differs.

thanks for the tips, and your time. but i also thought that the MP28 was totally obsolete by the end of WW1, and the same with the MP34. I just thought that the main SMG that the germans used were the MP38\MP40 just for their reliability. And another thing that I wanted to ask you was that did the MP44\STG44 get used by noncoms in the latter stages of the war? I also have seen pics of a noncom carrying an MP44 in about 1944-1945 and i just thought that the MP44 was just used mainly by tank crews, as well as with the barrel attachment that was developed in '45 (also, I thought that the grease gun was used by the U.S. as the main weapon for American tank crews)
very confused
please reply,
Thanks!
Kenny

The Germans used anything they could get their hands on . I've seen Nazi proofed Polish Radoms, FN Highpowers and Norwegian manfactured Colt 1911s (their Model 1927, if I remember right)

Some M3 Grease guns were issued to Armor crews,(pretty cramped in a tank) but a whole lot more were issued to Grunts to replace their Thompsons.

As to the original question about NCO's carrying rifles instead of submachine guns - Soldiers got promoted.

There were plenty of soldiers who kept the weapon they were most familiar with when they got promoted.

As Wattle said, it was really all about preference. NCOs were allowed to use Thompsons, but they didn't have to if they weren't as proficient with the weapon.