Has anyone else noticed the lack of information on this issue? Even with loaded dice the Army shot craps on their "REAL LIFE TEST" yet there was no information on the other two - HK416 and Springfield SOCOM 16. I know the SOCOM didn't need the KINS-X for "cleaning and lub" every few rounds to get through the 6,000 round requirement. Loading the dice by using these clean and relub crutches didn't prevent the failures of the M4 and M16. Can we get the part of the report they evidently didn't want out in the open?

Id say that the 416 didn't do that well either, knowing the similarity of the design of both of the rifles. Until someone actually makes the clean\lube button work the way it is supposed to, I dont think you will see this platform change much in these tests..........

the 416 may have not done that well, but compared to the m4/m16 series, it kicked butt. With less than three times the jams, it worked way better. I think that the xm8 should be reconsidered, as it had the least out of all of the rifles tested( 416, m4,scar l, and xm8).

"Real Life Test"ing doesn't happen in a lab.

There just isn't a problem with the weapon here in the sandbox, despite wildly inflated stories and rumors to the effect.

OK, the M16 series is SOOOOOOOooooo screwed up, and SOOOOOOOooooo utterly unreliable, that most of the worlds elite combat forces us it, nearly every police agency in America uses it, and hunting-shooting-competition enthusiasts have adopted it in droves. [/sarc-off]

Yeah, that's one messed up weapon, huh?

Yes, I know that it is a widely adopted platform, but I never knew that comp shooters and hunters, much less police forces buried their guns in sand and fired 6000 rounds in one day out of them...............

quote:

Originally posted by leatherneck448:
Yes, I know that it is a widely adopted platform, but I never knew that comp shooters and hunters, much less police forces buried their guns in sand and fired 6000 rounds in one day out of them...............

And neither do Soldiers.....or actual Marines, wannabe. If you manage to graduate from boot, you'll learn to understand that.

I can make anything fail in a lab, because lab tests do not replicate reality.

I have to agree with "leatherneck" here. 6000 rounds a day comes out to 200 30 round magazines a day! I don't know of ANY soldier/Marine carrying that much ammo for his weapon! Nor have I heard of anyone "burying it in the sand"! After being around this weapon since I was issued it in 1967, I CAN say that it's not the PERFECT battle weapon, but, neither was the M-14! A SOCOM-16 is probably my ideal battle weapon, other than nukes! BUT, the ammo is a heavy load for a grunt accustomed to carrying .22 caliber ammo. The M-16/M-4 has beena round for over 40 years now, the longest of ANY military shoulder mounted weapon....EVER! It does need improvements, but then it always has. I CAN say that it served me well, both in the Army (5 years, 3 in 'Nam) and the Navy (16 years INTEL). I *****ed about it, but it worked as long as I performed the required continual maintenance. Maybe that's what the real problem is these days, is grunts who get lazy or complacent, and don't care for it like it REQUIRES! Like I said, gotta agree with "leatherneck" on this.

Awww, hell, I blew it! I meant to say that I agree with STARSANDBARS here, and DISAGREE with 'leatherneck"! It's hell ta get old! Think I'll go shoot the snot out of my DPMS Classic and new Mossberg 590! Maybe the recoil of the 590 can jar my brain back into it's proper place!