Hi everybody,

Watched new Rambo yesterday, enjoyed a movie and have one question about it.
In last 5-8 minutes Rambo blasts enemy with vehicle mounted 12.7 US model (don't know exact model) heavy machine gun.
I read and watched on Military Channel that it is like perfect weapon and design basically didn't change from WWII. It also said that nobody else in WWII didn't have such successful gun.
It movie people enemy gets cut in half, heads, arms flying off the bodies when hit. I would like somebody who saw or used that weapon in action can confirm that it is (was) really like that and not just film producer's imagination flying high.

Thanks
Zack

12.7 mm is a M2 .50 Cal BMG - aka "Ma Deuce"

The design remains essentially unchanged since 1932 - and the basic design dates back to WW1.

The 50 cal is a very powerful weapon. I've seen in person what it will do to a vehicle. The rounds will travel over 4 miles. 50 BMG rounds will a lot of damage to vehicles and people.

However, Hollywood being Hollywood, don't believe what you see in Rambo movies.

Isn't something like with shorter barrel used on the Humvees these days? How successful is that gun now?

The weapon with the shorter barrel, is a MK19 Grenade Launcher.

MK19 is a 40 mm belt fed automatic grenade launcher. It fires high explosive dual purpose grenade rounds.

M2HB Browning Machine Gun fires .50 caliber rounds whose destructive power is solely based on kinetic energy.

quote:

Originally posted by Zack_P:
Isn't something like with shorter barrel used on the Humvees these days? How successful is that gun now?

No. Barrels are standard heavies.

The .50 is preferred over other weapon systems, as it is a point and shoot, equal opportunity destroyer of anything. M240 is better than the M249 for vehicle mounts, as it will cut crap apart with decent precision. MK19 cannot be safely used near friendlies within 100m, as the frag can remain deadly that far, and is much too indiscriminate.

A .50 will not "blow a man apart". It will kill him real damn quick, but leave not much more than a 1/2" hole in a body.....which is way more than enough.

Going with all of the other guys, what you saw is good old Ma Deuce. (or the Browning M2HB to be exact)And yes that shorter barreled gun is a Mk. 18(I think its a Honeywell but im not sure)40mm grenade launcher. On the topic of damage, I read a book once(Guns Up, a very good book by the way)about a guy that got shot in the butt with a .50 cal. and he said it looked like raw hamburger. It will do some damage but not blow people in half
Thanks!
Kenny

quote:

Originally posted by wattle1999:
.... The rounds will travel over 4 miles. ...
....

Under ideal conditions. I fired mine (tracer round) aimed over a hill that was roughly a mile away, round splashed maybe three-quarter way there. Like with everything else, gravity ALWAYS wins.

a .22 round can travel nearly a mile.

Current specs on the M2 are as follows:

M2 Machine Gun Builder: Saco Defense
Numerous manufacturers originally produced the M2 Heavy Machine Gun.
M2 Length: 61.42 inches (156 centimeters)
Weight Gun: 84 pounds (38 kilograms)
M3 Tripod (Complete): 44 pounds (19.98 kilograms)
Total: 128 pounds (58 kilograms)
Bore diameter: .50 inches (12.7mm)
M2 Maximum effective range: 2000 meters with tripod mount
M2 Maximum range: 4.22 miles (6.8 kilometers)
M2 Maximum effective range: is 1,830 meters
Cyclic rate of fire: 550 rounds per minute
Unit Replacement Cost: $14,002

"a .22 round can travel nearly a mile."

Would you have armed yourself with a .22 when you were in Iraq?
It states on the box of .22s here: "Range 1.5 miles". A 40 grain .22 is merely 2.59 grams, and an ounce is 28 grams.
Do you see the variance between the maximum effective range and maximum range?
Last month out at the range my 10/22 wouldn't punch through aluminum sheet at 100 yards. But at that distance would probably hurt/kill small rodent.
Wattle, I'm just saying that at 4 miles, I doubt that the standard M33 ball round would have enough energy left to do harm. It reminded me of an article a few years ago, some journalist was claiming that a 50bmg would penetrate armor at 4 miles. Not with an AP round, but with ball.

also the "ma duce" comes in a shorter barrel varrient for use on CH-47 and CH-53 as ramp or door guns and the .50BMG has many types of rounds like ball, dummy, blanks, armor piercing, tracers, incendiaries and armor piercing incendiaries.

i also have a ammo chart for .50BMG round

I was not saying that a 22 LR round would be an effective military round. I simply said that that round can travel over a mile.

I don't know about you, but I have real trouble identifying targets beyond 2000 meters.

You're confusing maximum range with maximum effective combat range.

As for journalists claiming that standard ball round will penetrate armor 4 miles out... Do you really believe ANYTHING you read in the media? When was the last time that mass media journalists had their facts correct on firearms - much less military weaponry?

Wattle,

I'm not confused over the maximum range and maximum effective range at all. I completely understand ballistics and as I stated previously, gravity always wins. Very few people know the formula to make a .22 travel 1 mile and a 50bmg 4 miles. I don't, and I own 20 firearms including the 50bmg. One doesn't simply point the barrel up in the air and fire, I've done that with tracer rounds and they all splashed.

I think qualifying on the M-60 range was easy only because we fired bursts of .308 down 600 meters. Hitting a target twice or triple that distance via 50bmg as the top shooters have done is pure skill and knowhow.

That's my beef with journalists, they sensationalize trivial tidbits to hype up the public. They put false fear into the hearts of everyone, demonizing firearms. Hence why the 50bmg is banned here in California.

Wattle, I don't know if you're in-country or back here in the States, but thank you for your service and please take good care of yourself!

Elevated at about 35 degrees, a bullet will travel its ballistic arc in the most efficient manner.

.50BMG will travel the 4 miles maximum flight distance under correct conditions. Trace ammo is lighter than ball or AP, thus will shed velocity quicker, and fall to ground at less than 4 miles. .22 Rimfire can travel 1.5 miles under the same conditions.

A Cooper sedan will go 400ft from a proper sized Trebuchet

Stars, I knew you or someone would have some info. That's what I mean, under ideal/correct conditions such as a nice tailwind, humidity, etc. I still think I aimed about 35 degrees like you said with the tracers, the sight picture cleared the hill that I was aiming at. The hill was definitely less than 4 miles away. If I fired ball or AP, we wouldn't see where the round splashed.

My point about a .22 at the end of it's mile - mile and 1/2 journey is that it becomes harmless at that point. That's unless someone's performing thoracic surgery out in the open and the bullet plopped into the cavity I guess.

I get a kick out of the Politicians who tout a 50BMG can shoot down an airliner. Yeah, maybe it could, if you could pull off a one in a million shot and hit just the perfect shot. At close to 500 miles a hour.
If all aircraft could be shot down with just one round each, we sure wasted a lot of ammo in WWII.

Gumby, my thought too! All those pilots are either really lousy shots or shooting down a plane isn't easy at all. Honestly, how easy is it to hold a 36-pound, single-shot rifle and hit a moving target? I wouldn't know, my bmg sits on a bipod and I shoot at stationary targets.
I have an over-bored 12 gauge shotgun that shoots 3 1/2" shells. I'd probably stand a better chance of damaging an airplane with that shotgun than with one shot of 50bmg.

not sure where they make all of them, but general dynamics in saco maine makes some of the MK19 grenade launchers, one kickass weapon

General Dynamics is the main (and to my knowledge) only supplier of MK19's.

It's a good system, but has it's flaws. Having to lubricate it with White Lithium grease to get it to function is a major drawback. The grease attracts dirt and dust like a magnet. This is a serious issue when operating in say... Iraq!