quote:
Originally posted by mboccia:
quote:
Who a person associates with is very good indicator of who they really are."

He's not just "associating" with his pastor, his pastor is like an "uncle" to him. Anyone who has any experience about belonging to close-knit churches knows that the Pastor's advice is sought in everything from marriage counseling to finances. There is a level of deep "intimacy" between the Pastor and the family (especially over a 20 year time-span) whereby an extreme bond of loyalty, trust, understanding, and mentorship is created between one another.

For anyone to suggest that Obama doesn't agree with his Pastor's views is absurd.

To put it into "Spiritual" terms: He is their Shepherd, they ARE his sheep.

Knowing that they had/have cultivated a 20-year relationship leads me to believe that Obama supports his Pastor's views.

In effect, the fact that he would even support a Pastor who says, "God damn America" (coming from a "man of peace" nonetheless) is so anti-America, it makes me want to puke to think that such a "man" who supports that anti-America propaganda would have the audacity to run for President of the Unites States when in fact he ISN'T EVEN LOYAL to the United States of America.

Furthermore, it sickens me to know that those of us who love our country might actually vote for someone who hates our country.

P.S. Is it true Obama's Pastor is also Oprah "new-age" Winfrey's pastor? If so, that says a lot about her too.

Hitler liked turkey sandwiches, as do you. So you must be. . . .

...gjd

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:


Hitler liked turkey sandwiches, as do you. So you must be. . . .

...gjd

Apples and oranges.

The difference between liking turkey sandwiches and voluntarily listening to someone I admire preach anti-America propaganda is akin to hearing a symphony and calling it heavy-metal.

I don't get your point.

Pendantic,

Is there ANYTHING about this country that you don't like? Policies, culture, etc..

Secondly,

Obama made a good argument in his speech. This pastor is like part of his family. If you, like me, had a father, brother or grandmother who said some embarassing racial expletives or something else who did not agree with would you disown them? No. Case closed.

Nobody whould run for President of this country if they hated it. That's just idiotic and tells me you listen to too much talk radio. This is a non-issue everyone, time to move on.

quote:

Knowing that they had/have cultivated a 20-year relationship leads me to believe that Obama supports his Pastor's views.

I have to agree with that. Also taking your family there as well to listen to the Rev. If he didn't believe in at least some of what the Rev. does why would he go there? Why build the 20 year bond and call him Uncle? I know if I didn't believe in some of what my Pastor preached I would not attend the church anymore! That's pretty simple!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:
Pendantic,

Is there ANYTHING about this country that you don't like? Policies, culture, etc..

Secondly,

Obama made a good argument in his speech. This pastor is like part of his family. If you, like me, had a father, brother or grandmother who said some embarassing racial expletives or something else who did not agree with would you disown them? No. Case closed.


Sorry, case not closed. He is running for Commander in Chief and President. Of course he made a good speech. He had too. But lets flip it around. Let's say McCain had a minister for 20 years that spouted off with "KKK" like statements/beliefs, he would be through before he even got out out of the gate. We all need to stop acting like a bunch of hippocrites. I'm sick and tired of the double standard as well. Especially the #$^#$^%%PRESS!!!
Wrong is wrong. I dont give a damn if your black,white red or purple.

chapwood........

quote:

I don't get your point.

I didn't expect you to!

(Even though "guilt by association" is a fairly easy concept to grasp.)

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Some people are unable to accept a contender for President telling the simple truth. It's so unusual, it's almost unnatural.

If Obama doesn't win the nomination, the country and its citizens will get what they deserve: Hillary. (McCain will lose it simply because he's already lost it!) I can accept Clinton, and even the divisiveness she'll bring to the White House -- but I don't think many Republicans will be able to.

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quote:

Let's say McCain had a minister for 20 years that spouted off with "KKK" like statements/beliefs, he would be through before he even got out out of the gate. We all need to stop acting like a bunch of hippocrites. I'm sick and tired of the double standard as well. Especially the #$^#$^%%PRESS!!!
Wrong is wrong. I dont give a damn if your black,white red or purple

Well now, Senator McCain may not have had a 20 year relationship with John Hagee (the televangelist who, among other bizarre
beliefs, thinks of the Catholic Church as "The Great Whore," and that his God created Katrina to punish the support of Gays), but he actively solicited the support of this nutty and dangerous preacher. McCain said he was, "honored to receive Hagee's endorsement," and it took awhile for him to backtrack and distance himself form Hagee.

But Senator Kay Baily Hutchinson did get it right when she said something like, "... sometimes people who are endorsed by someone are not in total agreement with them on other issues.

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quote:

I dont give a damn if your black,white red or purple

How about pink (like most caucasians)?

And to tell you the truth, I'm just not all that comfortable around purple people. . . Weren't they the "bad guys" in the Star Wars bar scenes?



...gjd

DJ_Wehr

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:
Pendantic,

Is there ANYTHING about this country that you don't like? Policies, culture, etc..

Secondly,

Obama made a good argument in his speech. This pastor is like part of his family. If you, like me, had a father, brother or grandmother who said some embarassing racial expletives or something else who did not agree with would you disown them? No. Case closed.

Nobody whould run for President of this country if they hated it. That's just idiotic and tells me you listen to too much talk radio. This is a non-issue everyone, time to move on.

I find your first question troubling...It's as if the thought is...If you don't have make some negative statement about the US...You are not genuine.

Take this to the family level...As a child, you might be upset and even hate (at least momentarily) one of your parents because of something they made you do or go through...you tell a friend...Let's say that friend then takes your side and starts ridiculing your mom....Do you not react to this? You can critize your mom, but your friends better keep their mouth shut. A wise person recognizes it doesn't serve yourself or your family to openly berate those that you care for....

I view my nation the same way. I might take issues with certain things, but I don't openly berate the nation because in the long run I know this is the greatest nation on earth, faults and all. By constantly berating it, we tend to forget the better side.

Concerning this pastor and his message...He's dead wrong...He has a captive audience...one that trusts him and believes he wants the best for his parishoners. When he stoops to this level he brings the flock there as well. 20 years of standing by may not be the issue to some....Having your children sit there for this type of speech may not be the issue for some...It seems the message of change sells, that to some, Obama is the answer and nothing will change that view....I can undrerstand this, I just wish those defending Obama would pony up to the truth...I understand because In CA when we were removing Grey Davis....any other candidate (at the time) seemed to be an improvement.

I ask though...Did Martin Luther King say the content of your character...or the eloquance of your speech?

Geejaydee

Your comment about a politician: "one who says what he believes . . . and believes what he says." Applies to Newt Ginrich....It's not just what they say, (some things they say might be their undoing, the truth is the people can't always handle the truth) it's what the topic is they are talking about.

Hey George,
You know the crazy old white guy is going to be are next president, right?

Peace,
Dick

This message has been edited. Last edited by: asm3driscoll,

Could be... Stranger things have happened.

Did you know the Reverend Wright was a Marine, just like McCain's son. Does "guilt by association" work in this case too?

Semper Fi

...gjd

quote:

Geejaydee

Your comment about a politician: "one who says what he believes . . . and believes what he says." Applies to Newt Ginrich....It's not just what they say, (some things they say might be their undoing, the truth is the people can't always handle the truth) it's what the topic is they are talking about.

I don't disagree, Eddie.

I just happen to believe in many of the same thing Senator Obama believes in. I don't agree with what Newt Ginrich believes in. And therein lies the difference.

Now, Hillary? I just don't know what she believes in. . . if anything. And if McCain ever believed in anything, he's since sold out!

...gjd

Geejaydee

quote:

Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

Geejaydee

Your comment about a politician: "one who says what he believes . . . and believes what he says." Applies to Newt Ginrich....It's not just what they say, (some things they say might be their undoing, the truth is the people can't always handle the truth) it's what the topic is they are talking about.

I don't disagree, Eddie.

I just happen to believe in many of the same thing Senator Obama believes in. I don't agree with what Newt Ginrich believes in. And therein lies the difference.

Now, Hillary? I just don't know what she believes in. . . if anything. And if McCain ever believed in anything, he's since sold out!

...gjd

That makes sense. Something must be wrong???? You understood exactly what I meant...and we agree again...But that's okay because I don't happen to believe in many of the same things Senator Obama believes in.....But I do agree with what Newt Ginrich believes in.

I think it was an awsome speech. McCain doesn't have a chance if he runs against him.

Here's a link to the video if you haven't seen it: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords


"I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible."

quote:

That makes sense. Something must be wrong???? You understood exactly what I meant...and we agree again...But that's okay because I don't happen to believe in many of the same things Senator Obama believes in.....But I do agree with what Newt Ginrich believes in.

Fair enough! I guess my base point is that both the personal, almost familial relationship between Obama and Wright, and the way Ginrich treated is ex wife (he discussed divorce terms with his last wife while visiting her in the hospital where she was recovering from cancer treatment) are not relevant to whether or not either one would make a good president. How one votes on, sets or administers policies are.

...gjd

Yea McCain he is just a terrible choice. How could we possibly vote for him? He is a veteran, thats terrible, oh my goodness, a tortured POW too?, oh my that wont do, highly respected by all. Oh, my this is too out of line, and Honorable, Uh-Oh, now we have gone waaaaay too far! Yea, he is just awful choice isn't he?

And lets see, lets erase all that because Obama gave a good speech to cover his a$$ due to his twenty year "close" association with a anti-white racist preacher.

Paalllleeeze.....

Give me a break.

chapwood.......

This message has been edited. Last edited by: chapwood,

quote:

Originally posted by Sn_Cf:
I think it was an awsome speech. McCain doesn't have a chance if he runs against him.

Here's a link to the video if you haven't seen it: http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords


"I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I've gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world's poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners - an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible."

Yeah...great speech...Rotate the blame upon corporations and the evil Bush administration. ...They are the real bad guys. Liberal talking points and Marxism at it's finest and the kool-aid drinkers lap it up joyfully. GREAT SAVE OBAMA!

"This time we want to talk about the men and women of every color and creed who serve together, and fight together, and bleed together under the same proud flag. We want to talk about how to bring them home from a war that never should've been authorized and never should've been waged, and we want to talk about how we'll show our patriotism by caring for them, and their families, and giving them the benefits they have earned.

This time we want to talk about the shuttered mills that once provided a decent life for men and women of every race, and the homes for sale that once belonged to Americans from every religion, every region, every walk of life. This time we want to talk about the fact that the real problem is not that someone who doesn't look like you might take your job; it's that the corporation you work for will ship it overseas for nothing more than a profit. "


Yep...we want to talk about the two axis of evil...not Obama's backround and character issues...The time to denounce Rev Wright's comments was when he made them, not when one has been caught lapping them up.

Here's a Hillary supporter...denouncing Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU&feature=related

Enlightening!

...gjd

After Farakan, the man from this discussion, thank goodness the Black Panther Party has jumped up to show their support for Sen. Obama.

quote:

the Black Panther Party has jumped up to show their support for Sen. Obama

Unsolicited, of course. (Unlike McCain's asking for the support of Rev. Hagee!) One thing you didn't mention, this support was a posting on the Obama website's public forum. Anyone can post there.

...gjd