quote:

Have you gone to church and not agreed with something the pastor said? If so, did you walk out?

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Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
If I read the intent of your post correctly, you are attacking me for reporting the truth rather than discuss the facts of what really occurred.

Oh..Dis,

These "facts" of yours is what is referred to as "truthiness". In other words, truth with your spin on it. Spoken from example? In reality you interpret others words the very same way.

Have you gone to church and not agreed with something the pastor said? If so, did you walk out?

Have been to a sporting event, how many did not put their hands over the hearts? Sporting event? How does an anonymous person compare to someone in the limelight...running for President?? He should recognize - considering that as a candidate for President the extreme prejudice created by ones actions or inactions work for against a candidate - heck, that's what creates almost all issues in competing campaigns...as such the people are trying to understand (get a feel for) a candidates real character...as well as find holes in a candidates real character...It's like the saying "Sports does not create character, it reveals it." ALOT, does this make them any less patriotic? Perception...much bigger than reality...candidates know this probably better than we do. We don't know. But some like yourself, assume they are not. You're busy assuming yourself...spelled out clearly by your response.

This wrap yourself in the flag B.S. that began after 9/11, No - Patriotism has been a virtue for some time - Now, denegrating those for being patriotic or bringing up patriotism or expecting patriotism, that is something new...something the left (you continually support) has been doing ever since 9/11...you are simply regurgitating this...even though Representative members of the left joined the representative members of the right on the steps singing God Bless America...immediately following the attacks of 9/11...was that patriotic? Was that wrong? it's time has past. Wow! Patriotism has past...how very profound of you to come to this conclusion People are FINALLY beginning to come from under the veil of 9/11. We all should judge one's patriotism by the content of their character "But don't you dare use your discernment to determine character" not because they don't wear a frickin' lapel.

I think Obama is the real deal, Herein lies your assumption! Of which you insult otrhers for having??...and your entire post here is based upon it, as well. I think this is someone given the opportunity could bridge the partisan divide.

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Have been to a sporting event, how many did not put their hands over the hearts?

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I did, my son does, and I expect my president to place his hand over his heart also.

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Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:

I think Obama is the real deal, I think this is someone given the opportunity could bridge the partisan divide.

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denegrating those for being patriotic or bringing up patriotism or expecting patriotism, that is something new...something the left (you continually support) has been doing ever since 9/11...you are simply regurgitating this...even though Representative members of the left joined the representative members of the right on the steps singing God Bless America...immediately following the attacks of 9/11...was that patriotic? Was that wrong?

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Originally posted by JACoastie:
So here it is all nice and neat,

Obama either knew about Wright's views and lied about it or he didn't know and lacks the judgment to be president.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:
This wrap yourself in the flag B.S. that began after 9/11, it's time has past. People are FINALLY beginning to come from under the veil of 9/11.

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Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

denegrating those for being patriotic or bringing up patriotism or expecting patriotism, that is something new...something the left (you continually support) has been doing ever since 9/11...you are simply regurgitating this...even though Representative members of the left joined the representative members of the right on the steps singing God Bless America...immediately following the attacks of 9/11...was that patriotic? Was that wrong?

It was a sign of the patriotism of the left -- just like flying and wearing the flag when appropriate or desired. (You might remember that the "right" stole the flag -- my flag -- back in the 60s and 70s, and that didn't happen this time around!) Now, not wearing a flag does not show a lack of patriotism -- either on the left or right. Sometimes a flag is just a flag.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkLF:
Disagreed,

"I hold every elected official to that high standard but I have to know about an issue before I can make a personal judgment. And since I don’t know much about Billy Graham or Bush’s association with him, it’s hard for me to judge. "

First of all let me state that I did NOT state that only President Bush was associated with Billy Graham! I stated that many presidents have associated with him from Truman to Bush. All but Kennedy held him as a "spiritual adviser".
The fact that you are unaware of the issue of his anti-semitism is exactly my point!!!! Here is a minister that has advised almost every President of the modern era yet no one is holding ANY of those Presidents accountable because he has said "hateful" things! Why is it that we are only holding Senator Obama accountable for the words of his minister? Why is it that you know of the hateful words of Senator Obama's minister but never knew of the hateful words of the most influential (in terms of Presidential spiritual advisor's) minister of our time? Is it because Senator Obama's minister said his "hateful" words against "whitey" and all Reverend Graham did was to speak against Jews? Is making disparaging comments about those that are Jewish more acceptable then speaking against whites?

"Additionally, has President called Graham his ‘uncle’? Did he marry Bush and the Mrs.? Did Graham baptize Bush’s children? Did Bush visit Graham every week for 20 years? What’s the relationship?"

As I stated Reverend Graham has been close to almost every President since Truman not just President Bush. Eisenhower asked for him from his death bed. He was a close friend of President Nixon (whose secret tapes reveled the Reverend's anti-semitism). He presided over the graveside service of LBJ. He gave the Benidiction at President Bush Sr's inauuration and was President Regans guest at his inaguration. President Clinton has stated that he attended his revivials as a child. These are but a few of the examples of his "closness" to these Presidents yet none of those Presidents were held accountable for his "hateful" words!

Marklf

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Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

Originally posted by JACoastie:
So here it is all nice and neat,

Obama either knew about Wright's views and lied about it or he didn't know and lacks the judgment to be president.

To make it both nicer and neater:

Either way it's irrelevant. . .

...gjd

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(You might remember that the "right" stole the flag -- my flag -- back in the 60s and 70s, and that didn't happen this time around!)

????Splain...

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Originally posted by geejaydee:

quote:

(You might remember that the "right" stole the flag -- my flag -- back in the 60s and 70s, and that didn't happen this time around!)

????Splain...

Easy, and it applied to a couple of situations. The pro-war advocates used the Flag as it's symbol, and the anti-war (the left, by and large) allowed it to be used against them. In some cases, for example, they in turn burned the flag or otherwise "desecrated" it, which only escalated the dispute between the two sides.

This time around (Iraq), the anti-war folks adopted the flag as their symbol -- sharing it with the pro-war groups. So the flag as a pro-war symbol lost its impact.

Similarly, back when MLK was assassinated, the anti-civil rights advocates adopted the flag as a symbol. (That was when fire departments throughout the country started affixing flags to their apparatus -- as if we or they doubted they were Americans. ) These were the same element who, in many cases, refused to lower the flag to half mast at that time, and included some American Legion and VFW local posts, and some volunteer fire departments. The flag used to symbolize pure and simple racism? I can't prove, but I was there as a witness and participant (guess which side), and I sincerely think so.

This time, both sides quickly adopted the flag, flying it in front of their homes and on their personal vehicles. So the flag (OUR flag) couldn't be used as an identifier or a scorecard, as it had been in the past.

I hope that "Splains" it.

...gjd