i'll try to steer this thread back to the topic;

thanks for sharing a powerful and moving photo with us, john. and Thank You to everyone who is and has served this great country as a member of our armed forces.

quote:

While I agree with SA, the U.S. is there now, and the outcome shoule we pull out prematurely would be horrific.

Exactly my point. Holy Crap, Batman, You, Scrounge and I agree?

That photo was on the cover of either, an American Legion or VFW magazine a couple years ago. I couldn't help but draw my eyes to the photo often. I had a hard time weeding out my magazines and throwing that particular issue away. It truly moved me. I wished I would have kept it.

Another that moves me is seeing the faces of the Mother and Father of a Fallen Hero accepting their child's flag as I hide my own crying eyes behind my dark shades as they fire the follies in the 21 gun salute. Or the very young children who play gleefully at the funerals not totally understanding that it is their Daddy or Mommy in that Flag draped casket. Those are true heartbreakers.

What we need to do as a nation is individually take these moments in and just look up to God and say 'Thank you'; NOT that we've lost a HERO but that they were the selfless ones to lay down their lives for others and/or for a purpose. Even if we dispute the 'purpose', we still need to thank them with all of our hearts. Why? Because we owe it to them. We are alive to tell their story and we should.

Remember them all this Memorial Day. IMO, its not a weekend to bust out all the pool supplies, beaching it, drunkin bbq's, etc. Its a weekend to soley remember our Fallen and that we are enjoying the freedoms bestowed upon us because of their ultime sacrifice. Likewise, its noble gesture to honor those who have been injured in battle. Each day for them after, is a constant reminder of the pain they will endure each day for the rest of their lives.

Hand Salute to each and every one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by SearchNRescue:
That photo was on the cover of either, an American Legion or VFW magazine a couple years ago. I couldn't help but draw my eyes to the photo often. I had a hard time weeding out my magazines and throwing that particular issue away. It truly moved me. I wished I would have kept it.

Another that moves me is seeing the faces of the Mother and Father of a Fallen Hero accepting their child's flag as I hide my own crying eyes behind my dark shades as they fire the follies in the 21 gun salute. Or the very young children who play gleefully at the funerals not totally understanding that it is their Daddy or Mommy in that Flag draped casket. Those are true heartbreakers.

What we need to do as a nation is individually take these moments in and just look up to God and say 'Thank you'; NOT that we've lost a HERO but that they were the selfless ones to lay down their lives for others and/or for a purpose. Even if we dispute the 'purpose', we still need to thank them with all of our hearts. Why? Because we owe it to them. We are alive to tell their story and we should.

Remember them all this Memorial Day. IMO, its not a weekend to bust out all the pool supplies, beaching it, drunkin bbq's, etc. Its a weekend to soley remember our Fallen and that we are enjoying the freedoms bestowed upon us because of their ultime sacrifice. Likewise, its noble gesture to honor those who have been injured in battle. Each day for them after, is a constant reminder of the pain they will endure each day for the rest of their lives.

Hand Salute to each and every one of them.

Good post and great reminder about Memorial Day!!

Edit - a thought.....it would be nice if someone with photo imaging skills (it ain't me babe!) could put togther a nice collage of patriotic pics and post it up on Memorial Day!! Any takers?????

quote:

Originally posted by SociallyAutistic:
These people are so self-absorbed, they can't fathom that my tears have been already cried ... I've been on this board railing at the atrocity of the Iraq operations for years. Humanity's loss is huge ... we were a catalyst for the death of 4000 Americans and 150,000 Iraqis. For what? Iraqi freedom? They're building walls across the cities ... the nation is now segregated and stratified by ethnicity.

The conservatives said "he's gassing the Kurds!". It's like we said, "5000 dead Kurds ... that ain't genocide ... WE'LL show ya some genocide!" But Scrounge will say, "oh ... he's cryin' for our enemies". I don't cry for our enemies. I cry for dead humans ... orphaned children ... a state of chronic misery we perpetuated on a nation.

quote:

The provision of chemical precursors from United States companies to Iraq was enabled by a Ronald Reagan administration policy that removed Iraq from the State Department's list State Sponsors of Terrorism. Leaked portions of Iraq's "Full, Final and Complete" disclosure of the sources for its weapons programs shows that thiodiglycol, a substance needed to manufacture mustard gas, was among the chemical precursors provided to Iraq from US companies such as Alcolac International and Phillips.

Travesty abounds ...

Sometimes it takes action (military action, where good people and bad people die horrible deaths)not just tears, to stop future deaths...Future deaths of thousands if we don't sends a clear message to terrorists. Those same terrorists that think nothing of walking into a theatre or a market and killing mothers and children so that a bleeding heart person can cry for all the killing to stop. One side, the side with compassion, hears those cries, the other rejoices.

The one picture paints MORE than a thousand words, but as usual, I guess, some feel they need to detract from it.

Just my opinion.

And, if this continues, I'll be shifting this over to Soapbox for further "discussion."

sindbad

Some people don't get it.

This photo has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with "Honor, Respect, and Devotion To Duty."

quote:

Originally posted by n1dp:
Some people don't get it.

This photo has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with "Honor, Respect, and Devotion To Duty."

That was my intent in the first place. Lots of folks here have fathers, mothers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc who were WWII vets...myself included. My dad was in the Marines towards the end of WWII.

That's true ... some of you don't get it. My father served from '43 in the Pacific Navy Campaign, thru the entire Korean conflict until 1966 at the start of the Vietnam war.

Sarcasm is a construct of pain, and if you can't share the outrage at the incredulous loss of humanity ... starting with this Marine's leg, arm and eye ... who does that make the lesser man?

Honor ... Respect ... Devotion to Duty. You don't demand this of your Commander in Chief, or his deputy. Why would you question mine? At least I served ...

quote:

Sarcasm is a construct of pain, and if you can't share the outrage at the incredulous loss of humanity ... starting with this Marine's leg, arm and eye ... who does that make the lesser man?

How many lives, legs, arms and eyes do you think were lost in all those wars your father server in? Oh, I forgot...those were credulous losses right? Forget about WMD because I know most of you use that as justification. The fact of the matter is the man and his regime had to be taken out and we sent the worlds finest in there to do the job. God bless those two soldiers for serving their country when called upon. I'm sure they would tell you that they don't regret a minute of it. The picture is what it is. It's intent is not to be a political gossip springboard for Bush haters like you. If you don't have anything positive to say about it then move on to the next thread please!

No, it is NOT a fact that the "man and his regime" had to be taken out. He was causing no immediate crisis ... no immediate genocide. Why not take out Than Shwe of Myanmar. Why did it take ten years to finally hit Aden Hashi Ayro, just this month? Those guys, I could see taking out immediately. We had other options available for Saddam Hussein. Hell, have you forgotten the north/south no-fly zones? We were in his $hit the whole time for ten years ...

I choose to make this topic, this thread, this forum a political springboard. I will not accept your invitation to move on. Perhaps when you can render something more than half-baked opinion based on smooching George's butt, we'll have something to talk about.

The picture ... it all comes back to the picture. With 70% of Americans against this war effort, the old veteran could easily have been saying, "Son, I am sorry we sacrificed your limbs for such a trivial purpose ...". I don't accept your rose-colored version.

Lets not forget, these people die or get maimed in vain if we let it. We may have lost 4k military people of all branches but the wealth of medical advances, the treasure drove of techno break throughs do not make their suffering or deaths meaningless as some may say. Ways to stay alive are learned off the backs of those who don't make it back and as sad as the picture is, the marine shown more then likely owes his life to those who didn't make it before him and motivated some doctor enough to figure out a way to not allow the next marine to slip away. This alone in my book makes these people heros in a different light. One that many don't think about. They died and suffered so others may live. I raise a glass to those who have been there, are there, and will always be there.

ANYWAY... BACK TO THE PICTURE!!... It brings tears to my eyes every time I see it, not beacsue of the Marine whose lost his limbs and sight, but because of 2 men who shared a common experience, decades apart, and are now embracing each other with mutual respect and love.

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He was causing no immediate crisis ... no immediate genocide.

You’re kidding me right? Go back through your history notes pal. Should the fact that at the time we went in there he wasn't invading small countries or killing hundreds of people for no apparent reason make it a wrong decision? We should have taken his A$$ out back when Bush's father was in office. It would have saved us taxpayers a ton of money! I could bullet a list of other reasons we snuffed him out that didn't make the front page of the paper but I'll let you research that yourself. Don't forget that he chose his own fate, the same fate that North Korea will endure if they push things too far.

quote:

Perhaps when you can render something more than half-baked opinion based on smooching George's butt, we'll have something to talk about.

I attempted to smart guy but you obviously did not pick up on that. You believe we are suffering an "incredulous loss of humanity" in Iraq. I ask you to show me how the wars your father served in made all those lives worth losing. Do you remember what the hell we were doing in Vietnam? 50,000 lives in 10 years. Explain to some Vietnam vet that their brothers were killed for a good cause.

You really should think about what you are saying before you say it. Some of us have been around the block too.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KensRMA89,

Boy, what a convoluted mess of a post ya' got there ... I don't know if I have the patience to wade thru such ridiculousness ...

* "Should the fact that at the time we went in there he wasn't invading small countries or killing hundreds of people for no apparent reason make it a wrong decision?"

YES, IT WAS A WRONG DECISION. 70% OF AMERICANS ALSO THINK SO.

* "We should have taken his A$$ out back when Bush's father was in office. It would have saved us taxpayers a ton of money!"

NO DISAGREEMENT THERE ... ANOTHER BAD MISJUDGEMENT BY A BUSH.

* "I could bullet a list of other reasons we snuffed him out that didn't make the front page of the paper but I'll let you research that yourself."

YOU'RE INFERRING THAT YOU HAVE KNOWLEDGE NOT READILY AVAILABLE TO THE REMAINDER OF US. I THINK I'M PRETTY CONVERSANT ON THE RUN-UP TO THE INVASION; BUT I LIKE SURPRISES ... IF YOU HAVE ONE, LET'S HEAR IT.

* "I ask you to show me how the wars your father served in made all those lives worth losing. Do you remember what the hell we were doing in Vietnam? 50,000 lives in 10 years. Explain to some Vietnam vet that their brothers were killed for a good cause."

I CAN'T BEGIN TO JUSTIFY THE VIETNAM WAR ... HOW THAT CONFLICT BEGINS TO JUSTIFY THIS FRESH HELL IS INCONCEIVABLE TO ME. THE INCREDULOUS LOSS OF HUMANITY EXISTS IN THE 150,000 DEAD IRAQIS, AND OF COURSE, EVERY DROP OF AMERICAN BLOOD WASTED IN IRAQ. I REALIZE WE DID NOT KILL ALL THOSE IRAQIS, BUT WE WERE THE CATALYST FOR THE ETHNIC CONFLICT, AND THE DISPLACEMENT OF A MILLION PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES.

Listen, of the two of us, I'm pretty sure you're the one with the maligned thought-process. Being "around the block" has nothing to do with it. I don't question your life's experience ... but I question anyone who believes that the positive virtues of this war outweigh the negative repercussions.

quote:

NO DISAGREEMENT THERE ... ANOTHER BAD MISJUDGEMENT BY A BUSH.

You seem to forget GW I was not a US war but a Coalition war.

Once the U.N resolutions were completed (ousting the Iraqi Army from Kuwait), we were, unfortunately, supposed to stop.

If we continued, I'm sure it would have been alone, and there probably would have been a hue and cry from our partners for not stopping.

And I agree with Sindbad - if this continues to be political and not about the picture, it will be moved to the Soapbox.

Well obviously you have the patience and time since you chose to respond to my post. Earlier you said "He's causing no immediate genocide". Wow, that's scary. It's like letting a serial killer run loose and saying "He's causing no immediate killings so we will just ignore him and all the murders will go away". I have news for you. His ruthless murderess dictatorship and thirst for power would have never ended. He was the Hitler of this generation. I have no doubt that if he had the resources, he would have attempted to take over the world. There are negative repercussions in any war, that's why it's called WAR. I'm in the 30 percent that thinks it was the right thing to do. You are in the 70 percent that disagrees but at the same time would be crying like a baby wishing we had done something after Saddam made his next move. Get it through your head that this is a different world since 9/11. All threats are taken seriously and dealt with accordingly. For someone who is "socially autistic" you sure have managed to spoil an awesome thread with a very moving picture of patriotism. Thanks man!

quote:

He was the Hitler of this generation.

Ya know, when somebody brings up comparisons of anybody to Hitler, ya know that emoting has taken hold, and sensibility has flown out the window. The public record of 20th century genocidal despots is well recorded; doesn't need to be recited here.

When I see the picture, I see the framework of a promise that should be kept. A promise that the soldier's sacrifice will be his last ... his medical and restorative care will be second to none ... his melding to society be complete ... his familial responsibilities augmented to fulfillment. "We'll take care of you ...". That's what I hope the old man is saying to him.

Jerry or Sinbad or somebody, why don't y'all lock this thread ... that's a lot easier than getting me to shut up.

I just love it when some folks justify the invasion of Iraq by pointing out that Saddam was a "murderous dictator".

If that is justification for going to war then why have we not gone to war to stop the MILLIONS being killed in Africa? The guys running those countries make Saddam look like Mother Theresa.

For that matter, why did we not attack North Korea, Russia, or China?

Sorry, but the fact that Saddam was one of MANY ruthless dictators hardly supports our actions.

I spent a year there and therefore feel I can speak with a little more familiarity then others since I have seen what has happened to the average Iraqi citizens.

quote:

"We'll take care of you ...". That's what I hope the old man is saying to him.

Oh, is that what the old man is saying? I recall earlier you said something differently.
Please don't talk about emotion taking hold when your emotional sarcasm immaturely remarked that the soldier might be saying to the old man "Geez, Grandpa, you sure smell funny ...", or "Grandpa, let me pluck all that ear hair out with this tong attachment ...”

Not funny whatsoever. Do you think people like me are going to ignore that? What are you really doing in the anti-war movement? Is this all you got? Sitting around on your A$$ all day responding to threads and making a fool out of yourself. If this war really bothers you then get out there and do something about it. You can start by creating a thread called "Bush Hating Anti-War Movement" and ***** about it all you want. Don't do it here, it's not the place and nobody cares to listen. I'm out...