quote:

Originally posted by spacecowboy1:
They should teach this in school too chris homeschool or not.

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23519334

I don't smoke bro, I just enjoy personal liberties..

If they can tell you not to do it in your car, they can tell you not to do it in your house. Watch, it's gonna happen.

Thanks for the heads up though Cowboy.

personal liberties end ..when they effect others..i sometimes enjoy pissing outdoors cuz when you gotta go you gotta go..and sometimes at work there are no restrooms..i have to be disgreet..i imagine a pee out in the woods don't bother anyone..now if i piss in you flower bed..well i bet you would get mad..yet i am suppose to enjoy someone elses 2nd hand smoke..cigerettes stink..the butts litter the landscapes..and they serve no purpose other than the high taxes they pay..about the only benie i know of... sc

ps..i am glad you don't smoke live long and prosper

GJD, when one’s assimilation ends up stripping one of the freedom of thinking, it is bad. When one’s assimilation ends up stealing ONE person of their free will, it is bad. When one’s assimilation ends up making people dependent upon government handouts to survive, it is very, very bad. And when one’s assimilation forces people to become willing welfare slaves, it is a horrific thing! And that’s what is happening.

As for the average pat being $47,000, I’d take that for such short hours right about now. I own a real estate company and last year I worked A LOT more hours than teachers and made a lot less! When calculating my expenses, I probably lost money. And if if one sucks as a teacher they get their paycheck. If I suck as a Realtor, I earn nothing! So please, don’t whine to me about long hours and low pay. I’d be more than happy to work less hours and for a pay raise!

quote:

Originally posted by CC65:
For the most part;

The recruits who are home schooled lack social skills, dont know how to handle failure, and cant handle stress.

For the most part....... are strange!! Like the branch dividians in Waco TX, I bet they were home schooled, it was to sheild their children from the evil that lurks in public schools. That's why my son who is in public school is now a pagan, he made me convert last year from the Catholic church. We worship 16 gods in my house so far. One of them is the mighty Nascar god, we will worship this powerfull god this sunday at the Atlanta Speed Way, via the television set.

Interesting study...I'm assuming it has something, anything that might be considered empirical? I wasn't aware it was the schools responsibility to make our children "normal".

They might want to teach the little rascals how to spell (or use spell check).

quote:

Originally posted by MarkLF:
tubaman2,

...What I quoted was the "average" salary. So if those in one are are paid less that would mean those in other areas are paid more then $47,602! Not too bad for less then 6 months of "full-time work".

....Many of the schools hire coaches and band directors as their full time job! They are paid to coach! They do not have classroom duty or if they do their classroom duties are greatly reduced! So $47,602 does sound too bad for coaching high school sports!
...Actually one of the problems with the school system is that their retension is too high! Teachers that are not performing well are extremly difficult to fire! So too often our children end up in classes that are run by a burned out teacher that only cares about cashing their paycheck!
Marklf

What I'm reading here is a clear indicator that we live in different geographical areas, because it is all very foreign. Here, $47K = Principal, or a teacher with Masters with many years experience. Over 50K, extremely rare for any teacher around here. Hired just to coach? Only places I have seen that is in the rural 1-A or 2-A schools and they are paid a very small amount, probably not much more than minimum wage given the amount of hours put in. Truly part time. One local 2-A school used a local barber for varsity coach for years up until this year. Yeah, I have heard about Texas where football coaches make 80K and up. A really different world, but regardless of the salary, coaches share one thing: their livelihood depends on won and loss records, and what a bunch of 15 to 17 year old kids do. Tough to settle in a be real comfortable with that. Ever notice how many administrators are former coaches. There is an old joke about how to become an administrator - 3 losing seasons.
Extremely difficult to fire? Not if the school really wants rid of them. Life is made so miserable for them that the teacher finally quits. Have seen them do it with 2 20+ year teachers. On another occasion the school advised a contracted teacher that they would honor his contract but it was at their discretion what his work assignment would be, and that custodian was an option - he quit.
Burned out teacher? Shouldn't happen if its only part time.

Disagreed

quote:

And if if one sucks as a teacher they get their paycheck. If I suck as a Realtor, I earn nothing! So please, don’t whine to me about long hours and low pay. I’d be more than happy to work less hours and for a pay raise!

I second that, moreso, if I suck at my job...or any of my hired employees suck not only do I not get payed...I pay to make it right! Please do not take this to mean I'm complaining...I'm simply explaining the huge difference, I chose my field just like teachers chose theirs. I can leave my field, just as teachers can leave theirs.

TJ,

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
Whatever, as long as the government strips away more and more decisions made by the parents, the agenda will ultimately be realized. Of course all home school instructors must meet CA regulation or some little mush brains might slip through the cracks and keep America free longer!

Too many have already been assimilated… and they don’t even know it…

Believe it or not, I agree with you as far as parents rights to home school. But that is not what current California law says. You made a false statement about this ruling and I called you on it, that's all.

I think it is amusing that when court judges strike down existing laws, they are called activist judges, legislating from the bench. But if a court upholds the laws that are already on the books, it is "assimilation" .

The people of California currently have three choices: they can send their kids to a public school, send them to a private school, or hire an accredited tutor in their home for at least 3 hours a day, 175 days a year. That is the current law. If parents wish to home school their kids themselves, they need to work to change the law. This is not just California, the SCOTUS has said that states have the right to regulate education.

quote:

You’re so assimilated, you probably think this quote is about you…

That is funny, thanks for the laugh!

Matt

Guru, the assimilation of which I write is what the liberal biased public school system is doing to our children. They are indoctrinating them to the ‘joys’ of liberalism and explain conservatism as evil and uncaring. Even when my kids were in college they were barraged by liberal BS constantly. They were forced to watch Michael Moore movies and write about how bad the Bush Administration was. Luckily, my kids were smart enough to think for themselves and knew Moore and their teachers were Moore-Ons.

Oh, glad you took the last line as it was meant! I wrote it to get a laugh!!

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
Guru, the assimilation of which I write is what the liberal biased public school system is doing to our children. They are indoctrinating them to the ‘joys’ of liberalism and explain conservatism as evil and uncaring. Even when my kids were in college they were barraged by liberal BS constantly. They were forced to watch Michael Moore movies and write about how bad the Bush Administration was. Luckily, my kids were smart enough to think for themselves and knew Moore and their teachers were Moore-Ons.

Oh, glad you took the last line as it was meant! I wrote it to get a laugh!!

Again, I don't see how this ruling is forcing anyone to use the public school system

This decision upheld the law that parents can still use private schools or hire an accredited tutor. As I said I agree with home schooling but the residents of CA would have to work to change the law to allow that.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't think it relates to the topic at hand...am i missing something??

Never mind...I think you are following the slippery slope argument. I disagree but that is ok...cheers

Guru, the parents can still home school as long as their curricula jumps through each individual hoop that leads to assimilation. Do you think that them curricula would discuss the Biblical creation of the Earth? Nope, but the ‘theory of evolution’ must be taught even though there are huge holes in that theory, too. (Personally, I’d teach both!) And I bet that if the classes failed to teach that homosexuality was acceptable to all aspects of society, the curricula would not meet CA standards. Sorry, the parents should be in charge of how their children are raised.

If you are missing anything it is because I take HUGE steps in logic. I’ve always been a big picture guy and details tend to bore me to death! So I tend to view our world very differently than most. And, since I am the product of the very liberal Massachusetts public school system, often my writing skills are lacking! Keep asking questions and sooner or later I’ll explain myself adequately. But be patient!

Tubaman2,

"What I'm reading here is a clear indicator that we live in different geographical areas, because it is all very foreign. Here, $47K = Principal, or a teacher with Masters with many years experience. Over 50K, extremely rare for any teacher around here."

As I stated, the $47k amount is the national average according to the American Federation of Teachers. If the teachers in your geographical area make less then that would mean there are teachers in other geographical areas that make more then that!

"Hired just to coach?"

I do not want to get even farther off the point of this thread so all I can say is across the country many many schools hire coaches to just coach. They give them wonderful titles like "Athletic Director" and give them little or no actual classroom time! Other schools may utilize actual teachers as coaches but they are paid for that as an extra in addition to their teaching pay. If the school is not providing them enough extra compensation for their additional duties the teachers are free to stop coaching! But the issue of coaching really has little to do with the subject of this thread so I will drop that issue.

" Extremely difficult to fire? Not if the school really wants rid of them."

No for a school to actually fire a teacher is extremely difficult! I recall reading of how NY City has to pay many teachers to show up and sit in a room all day because they cannot be allowed in the classroom due to their past behavior but the school cannot fire them!

"Life is made so miserable for them that the teacher finally quits. Have seen them do it with 2 20+ year teachers."

Just how did they make life that miserable for them? What did they do assign them classes of students and expect them to actually teach them?

"On another occasion the school advised a contracted teacher that they would honor his contract but it was at their discretion what his work assignment would be, and that custodian was an option - he quit."

If that teacher was actually stupid enough to believe that they could do that he deserved to be canned! Teaching is one of, if not the most unionized, professions in this country. There is no way the union would allow a teacher to be assigned the school janitor!!!!

"Burned out teacher? Shouldn't happen if its only part time. "

Maybe it "shouldn't" happen but it certainly does happen!!!! And unfortunately if your child ends up in a class with a burned out teacher or an incompetent teacher or a teacher that just does not care there is very little that you can do about it! That is a major reason that many parents choose to home school their children and they should be allowed to do so!
Marklf

quote:

"On another occasion the school advised a contracted teacher that they would honor his contract but it was at their discretion what his work assignment would be, and that custodian was an option - he quit."

If that teacher was actually stupid enough to believe that they could do that he deserved to be canned! Teaching is one of, if not the most unionized, professions in this country. There is no way the union would allow a teacher to be assigned the school janitor!!!!

And the Union representing the custodians would be sure to file charges against the school district for assigning a teacher to perform their bargaining unit work!

---

And, Mark, it's "custodian," not "janitor." Codified in California at least because that person is the custodian ("keeper of the keys") of the school.

I think, earlier, you referred to "aides" to the teachers. Sorry, they're called "Paraeducators" (working along side the classroom teacher).

Let's try to maintain this "PC" decorum worthy of this board.

...gjd

Unions? You've got to be kidding! If there are any unions in the schools around here, they sure keep it quiet. How do I know these stories and the salaries? I am the father/father in law of 4 teachers, soon to be 5 - none are union. To my knowledge the word has never been mentioned to them.
The stories: The guy they threatened with custodian--my daughter got his job. How did she know about it? My son was already on faculty there, and was witness to the mess that forced the guy out. Would they have followed through, who knows. My son says the administrators there are just ornery enough to do it. My comments about coaches - my other son is a varsity basketball coach and my son-in-law is a varsity golf coach. And NO they can't just quit coaching, unless they are ready to move on, or another teacher is there who will take it for the extra money. Certain teaching positions (most commonly social studies)are flagged as "coaching positions". The school recruits and hires with that made perfectly clear.
How do schools make life miserable for teachers they want rid of? First, they give no raise, or very minimal. Then they take away the miscellaneous stipend add-ons (Yearbook coordinator, class sponsors etc) which represent pay cuts, then they load them up with added responsibilities like lunch-room or hall monitors, detention room monitors, etc., jobs that rookie teachers normally get. This lack of respect wears on them over time. The two I mentioned - one moved on after 18 years and is doing well at a big school in Wisconsin. The other quit after 28 years and worked for 6 years at Wal-mart, a bitter man until he died last fall. Both were fine teachers. I think it was cost cutting measures. About the same time, they did the same to a couple of non-teachers - a school bus driver, and a bus mechanic. Both long term employees who were at the top of their pay scales. After a group citizens showed up at a board meeting with signed petitions, the embarassed administration agreed to give the driver and mechanic a "second chance".
And yes this thread varied from the original topic that I started. But some of the comments were personal, and seem incredibly foreign to the life my kids are living, and to the experiences that I witnessed with the 2 teachers who were friends of mine.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tubaman2,

quote:

Originally posted by SigNuCoastie:
What do you expect from the state that passed a law prohibiting adults from smoking in the personally owned vehicles while a minor is in the car?

No one likes being told how to live their life or raise their kids by ANYONE. But this isn't the 60's, Ozzy and Harriet were fictional and all the Cleavers needed therapy. We have child endangerment laws for a reason. I see nothing wrong with smoking in a car with your minors much less someone else’s being a bad thing. Girl scouts have a rule of no smoking in cars when your out on outings. Boy scouts have rules that adults can’t smoke in the presence of other scouts. I’m a non smoker so I can sit back and say I’m glad there are rules like this. It's just that times have changed from yesterday to today. As far as homeschooling goes, there should be checks and balances to ensure home schooled kids are keeping up with public levels. So, someone had to vote these people into office, maybe one should take a look at how many people (voters) are missing from that village. Just a thought.

I have not read all 4 pages of posts on this topic.... I will say Neither my wife or I could home school our kids. Even if we were up on the subject (educational) matter they needed to receive, there is much that can in no way be accomplished by homeschooling.

Children need to inter-act with other children. They can't get that at home. There are sports at public schools. They can't get that at home. There are class trips (my 14 year old is going to Washington DC this Spring). The whole class trip experience, sharing rooms, riding on a bus, eating together, following instructions, etc.. can not be duplicated. The list goes on and on, in my opinion.

My oldest daughter is attending college now on both an academic & soccer scholarship. That probably wouldn't have happened had she been home schooled.

I am not criticizing those that do it... it is just something I couldn't & wouldn't do..

Wray...

Wray,

Nice post and spot on. I get students who were home schooled in my college classes. Academically, they do OK for the most part. However, most of them are social cripples in that they know little of the culture they had walked into.

I am not criticizing parents that home school. However, the students that lead an active social life while home schooling such as youth sports etc. do far better than the students who are cloistered at home.

So there you have it. Home schooling should be outlawed nationwide because it tends to make our children "social cripples". We can't be going around letting parents hurt children. We must legislate something to protect them.

I have an idea. Why not let the childrens parents decide what is best for their child?

Just because a child is home schooled that does not mean they automatically miss out on social interaction with their peers! In fact all of the "home schoolers" that I have known were very actively participating in peer to peer social events. "Home Schoolers" network with each other and arrange for both social and sporting activities with their children. Many of the children are also exposed to "cultural" events such as theater and music but the main difference is the parents are the ones that are deciding what "art" displays they will see and what "performances" they will attend rather then just exposing their children to what ever the government run school decides is suitable to their children! Virtually all of the "home schooled" children that I have known have done far better academically (which includes two of my nephews) then those taught in the government run schools. In fact studies have found that students that are home schooled out perform their counterparts from government schools by 30 to 37 percentile points in all subjects! Which makes one wonder why the state of CA is now requiring that those that home schooled must be taught by state "certified" teachers?? Could it be that the teachers union and the NEA are worried that those studies will show just how bad a job the "professional" teachers are doing?
As for social skills try reading the newspaper and every single day you will see just how well many of those that are products of the government run schools are doing! Our courts and jails are full of them! Going to a government run school in no way guarantees that a child will be better "socialized" or better able to deal with the stresses of life then one that is "home schooled".

Marklf

Both my grand daughters home school. One whose husband is in Afghanistan tried the NC schools and teachers were either under paid and with too many kids per room, or under educated. That is just in her area.
My grand daughter here in CA chose to home school her kids after her daughter was made fun of about her clothes, her looks, etc and the teachers had too many s