quote:

Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan writes in a surprisingly scathing memoir to be published next week that President Bush “veered terribly off course,” was not “open and forthright on Iraq,” and took a “permanent campaign approach” to governing at the expense of candor and competence.

Among the most explosive revelations in the 341-page book, titled “What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception” (Public Affairs, $27.95):

• McClellan charges that Bush relied on “propaganda” to sell the war.

• He says the White House press corps was too easy on the administration during the run-up to the war.

• He admits that some of his own assertions from the briefing room podium turned out to be “badly misguided.”

• The longtime Bush loyalist also suggests that two top aides held a secret West Wing meeting to get their story straight about the CIA leak case at a time when federal prosecutors were after them — and McClellan was continuing to defend them despite mounting evidence they had not given him all the facts.

• McClellan asserts that the aides — Karl Rove, the president’s senior adviser, and I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, the vice president’s chief of staff — “had at best misled” him about their role in the disclosure of former CIA operative Valerie Plame’s identity.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0508/10649.html

This should be interesting.

and kind words for numbah one, from Don Siegelman, former Alabama governor and felon:

quote:

"I think Rove is probably the most devious and evil political operative who has been trained to come on to the political scene in certainly the last fifty years," he said. "I can't think of anybody in the annals of history who could even rival this man's pernicious thoughts. It is a lifetime's work for him.

Since I don't know what really happened I can assume two things:

One: the words are true, or
Two: some people will write anything to sell a book

Were I to write a political book right now, I also would attack President Bush! It would SELL more copies!!

Do it twice......

TJ, if it is "true", then wouldn't that make a lot of the things I said, right?

Just wondering. There were plenty of people that pointed out this things as they were happening and were lambasted and labeled "unpatriotic".

I think that it's unpatriotic to sit and say nothing about it, myself.

later...

quote:

Originally posted by lokie:
TJ, if it is "true", then wouldn't that make a lot of the things I said, right?

Just wondering. There were plenty of people that pointed out this things as they were happening and were lambasted and labeled "unpatriotic".

I think that it's unpatriotic to sit and say nothing about it, myself.

later...

Thats commie talk

Such damning words from Bush's own press secretary ...

quote:

“The collapse of the administration’s rationales for war, which became apparent months after our invasion, should never have come as such a surprise. … In this case, the ‘liberal media’ didn’t live up to its reputation. If it had, the country would have been better served.”

Even if it is true the neo-cons will not fess up to it.

Heck i have been accused of using "propaganda" countless times by neo con supporters on here.

I wonder how much more vindication of everything certain of us said on this Forum six or seven years ago it will take before certain others just admit that they were dead wrong, and were just following along with whatever their Boy King said because he was a Republican, and that was good enough for them? Why did almost 4,100 troops have to die before this happened?

How do the people who just nodded their heads and waved flags with big, happy stoned grins on their faces as the White House, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh fed them lie after lie sleep at night, knowing that they (along with the so-called "liberal media") are complicit in the murder of our troops and countless thousands of Iraqi citizens?

Lokie, the things in the book might well be true. I have no clue. I do know that he was silent while working in the Whitehouse. So if he is true, he is silently complicit in whatever happened. And no- if the things were true I still would not believe that Bush blew up the Twin Towers. Also, I never called you unpatriotic. Loopy maybe, but not unpatriotic!


Meat, the problem is that the extreme sides of both left and right feed their followers propaganda. That is why I am independent. But many think I am way right because I believe liberalism to be evil.

quote:

Meat, the problem is that the extreme sides of both left and right feed their followers propaganda. That is why I am independent. But many think I am way right because I believe liberalism to be evil.

Well, the "propaganda" fed to the "followers" of the Left doesn't tend to get people killed. And, yes, I already know how you like to view yourself.

And, believing that liberalism is "evil" is kind of the definition of being "way right". That's like saying, "A lot of people think I'm racist because I really hate black people."

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:
I wonder how much more vindication of everything certain of us said on this Forum six or seven years ago it will take before certain others just admit that they were dead wrong, and were just following along with whatever their Boy King said because he was a Republican, and that was good enough for them? Why did almost 4,100 troops have to die before this happened?

How do the people who just nodded their heads and waved flags with big, happy stoned grins on their faces as the White House, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh fed them lie after lie sleep at night, knowing that they (along with the so-called "liberal media") are complicit in the murder of our troops and countless thousands of Iraqi citizens?

I admit i used to be one of those people for 6.5 years. Its not to late.

quote:

Originally posted by bkreigh:

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:
I wonder how much more vindication of everything certain of us said on this Forum six or seven years ago it will take before certain others just admit that they were dead wrong, and were just following along with whatever their Boy King said because he was a Republican, and that was good enough for them? Why did almost 4,100 troops have to die before this happened?

How do the people who just nodded their heads and waved flags with big, happy stoned grins on their faces as the White House, Fox News and Rush Limbaugh fed them lie after lie sleep at night, knowing that they (along with the so-called "liberal media") are complicit in the murder of our troops and countless thousands of Iraqi citizens?

I admit i used to be one of those people for 6.5 years. Its not to late.

You're right. It's never too late, dude. I just wish it didn't take so long.

And, how many deaths will it take 'til he knows that too many people have died? The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the wind...

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:

quote:

Meat, the problem is that the extreme sides of both left and right feed their followers propaganda. That is why I am independent. But many think I am way right because I believe liberalism to be evil.

Well, the "propaganda" fed to the "followers" of the Left doesn't tend to get people killed. And, yes, I already know how you like to view yourself.

And, believing that liberalism is "evil" is kind of the definition of being "way right". That's like saying, "A lot of people think I'm racist because I really hate black people."

Why do you hate black people???(sarcasm)

The lefties get us killed in the long run, because they're too afraid to stand up to the real threat facing us now.

Meat, if you are EVER in New England and we don’t sit down for a beer and some stories I will be pissed! It would be entertaining!

Actually, liberal propaganda is every bit as bad as death. Losing one’s life a day at a time to welfare slavery is atrocious! Convincing people that they cannot become successful without the government’s help is slow torture. Wasting one’s life in the name of ‘compassion’ is immoral.

The reasoning behind my opinion of liberalism is based on the above facts. Healthy people should not calf more babies so they grab more handouts from Uncle Sam. No healthy people should waste an entire life on welfare. And far too many do. The ideals of liberalism are far from evil; it is the implementation of those ideals that waste humanity. Notice, I never stated that liberals are evil. I will state that they are misguided but their hearts are definitely in the right places! But I share many principles with liberals. We depart ways when it comes to implementation. I’d like to see people work their way up the economic ladder because I understand that they will never beg their way out.

As for being ‘wrong’, it’s easy to view history and determine right from wrong. Maybe in the future this war will be viewed differently. I do not want war. I do not like war. But I also do now want more terrorism on our soil. I guess that we are very short sighted. If we don’t win a war by the 5 o’clock news, it isn’t worth fighting. But remember, it was the lack of appropriate reaction to terrorism of the president’s before Bush that laid the ground for the terror of 9/11. Presidents as far back as Carter ought to feel like contributors to terrorism, as their wimpy crap reactions were BS.

quote:

Originally posted by scrounge:

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:

quote:

Meat, the problem is that the extreme sides of both left and right feed their followers propaganda. That is why I am independent. But many think I am way right because I believe liberalism to be evil.

Well, the "propaganda" fed to the "followers" of the Left doesn't tend to get people killed. And, yes, I already know how you like to view yourself.

And, believing that liberalism is "evil" is kind of the definition of being "way right". That's like saying, "A lot of people think I'm racist because I really hate black people."

Why do you hate black people???(sarcasm)

The lefties get us killed in the long run, because they're too afraid to stand up to the real threat facing us now.

Really? What are YOU doing to "stand up to the real threat" besides watching it on television? I keep hearing politicians in Washington tell me how they will "NEVER SURRENDER!", and then they go back to their martini. The Left has sent at least as many of its sons to die in this war as the Right has.

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
Meat, if you are EVER in New England and we don’t sit down for a beer and some stories I will be pissed! It would be entertaining!

Actually, liberal propaganda is every bit as bad as death. Losing one’s life a day at a time to welfare slavery is atrocious! Convincing people that they cannot become successful without the government’s help is slow torture. Wasting one’s life in the name of ‘compassion’ is immoral.

I will admit that there are plenty of people who are abusing the welfare state. But, without it, people die, and not just symbolically. It's that simple.

quote:

The reasoning behind my opinion of liberalism is based on the above facts. Healthy people should not calf more babies so they grab more handouts from Uncle Sam. No healthy people should waste an entire life on welfare. And far too many do. The ideals of liberalism are far from evil; it is the implementation of those ideals that waste humanity. Notice, I never stated that liberals are evil. I will state that they are misguided but their hearts are definitely in the right places! But I share many principles with liberals. We depart ways when it comes to implementation. I’d like to see people work their way up the economic ladder because I understand that they will never beg their way out.

Ditto what I said above.

quote:

As for being ‘wrong’, it’s easy to view history and determine right from wrong. Maybe in the future this war will be viewed differently. I do not want war. I do not like war. But I also do now want more terrorism on our soil. I guess that we are very short sighted. If we don’t win a war by the 5 o’clock news, it isn’t worth fighting. But remember, it was the lack of appropriate reaction to terrorism of the president’s before Bush that laid the ground for the terror of 9/11. Presidents as far back as Carter ought to feel like contributors to terrorism, as their wimpy crap reactions were BS.

The "War on Terror" is bogus. It's like a "War on Bomber Planes". It's a tactic, not a philosophy. Until we recognize that, the "War" will never end. Which, I suppose, would suit those profitting from it just fine.

The War in Iraq is a different matter. It's a war we didn't need, sold to us with lies by, again, the people who stood to profit from it. Keep cheering on the murderers while you rant that liberalism is killing people.

The same people who profit from creating the "terrorists" are the same ones who profit from sending our troops to war to kill them. And, it is THEY, not the Section 8 people, who are causing your unbelievably high taxes. As long as you fail to realize that, they win.

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:

quote:

Originally posted by scrounge:

quote:

Originally posted by MeatUSCGRetired:

quote:

Meat, the problem is that the extreme sides of both left and right feed their followers propaganda. That is why I am independent. But many think I am way right because I believe liberalism to be evil.

Well, the "propaganda" fed to the "followers" of the Left doesn't tend to get people killed. And, yes, I already know how you like to view yourself.

And, believing that liberalism is "evil" is kind of the definition of being "way right". That's like saying, "A lot of people think I'm racist because I really hate black people."

Why do you hate black people???(sarcasm)

The lefties get us killed in the long run, because they're too afraid to stand up to the real threat facing us now.

Really? What are YOU doing to "stand up to the real threat" besides watching it on television? Why does the left always stoop to this disingenous question...Again you are using a question as an indictment....one of your favorite tactics. I keep hearing politicians in Washington tell me how they will "NEVER SURRENDER!", and then they go back to their martini. The Left has sent at least as many of its sons to die in this war as the Right has.

Yep...The left wants them to die in the future as terrorism gets a shot in the arm when we surrender to their tactics....The right says we should defeat them while we have the chance, depite the whining from the softies on the left.

So, SCROUNGE, is this the way it's going to be again? Every time I ask a question that you can't answer without looking like a hyprocrite, then you're doing to duck it by saying it's not a "real question"?