I just received this from a friend. I do not know the original source. But here goes:

If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.


If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn`t eat meat.
If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.


If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.
A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.


If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life..
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.


If a black man or Hispanic are conservative, they see themselves as independently successful.
Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government protection.


If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.


If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don't like, be shut down.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)


If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.


If a conservative slips and falls in a store, he gets up, laughs and is embarrassed.
If a liberal slips and falls, he grabs his neck, moans like he's in labor and then sues.

If a conservative reads this, he'll forward it so his friends can have a good laugh.
A liberal will delete it because he's "offended".

I have friends that send me the same old stuff all the time too. This one has been running around the internet for years.

So how do independants fit into this?

For all you claiming independants; fill me in, how would you fill in the third line of each catagory?

quote:

Originally posted by PferdHing:
I have friends that send me the same old stuff all the time too. This one has been running around the internet for years.

So how do independants fit into this?

For all you claiming independants; fill me in, how would you fill in the third line of each catagory?

Okay, here's the third line for those eleven scenarios. I won't repeat the first two lines.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

An Independent minds his own business and wishes conservatives and liberals would too.

And we independents just want to be left alone. We'll leave you alone, you leave us alone. And we'd all live happily ever after!

I don't care what others do as long as they don't hurt anyone else.

Ok, that's cute with the Independent stuff, but I got a better answer.

The moderate "independent" crowd is just as likely to impose on their neighbors business as the "conservative" crowd, want to know how much income I made last year, want to force me into a ponzi scheme of a retirement system, want to raise my taxes for sports stadium, etc. However, I'll concede that "independents" are a lot less obnoxious in their nosiness than "liberals." Why they are practically conservative when you think about it.

See if you like this version:

(Just replace "conservative" with "independent.")

If an independent...
doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
sees a foriegn threat, he seeks to defeat the enemy.
is a homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
is black or hispanic, thinks independent, successful.
is down-and-out, thinks how to better his situation
doesn't like a talk show host, switches channels.
is a non-believer, doesn't go to church.
decides he needs health care, goes shopping for it.
falls in a store, laughs and is embarrassed.
reads this, laughs

Works pretty good, yes?

And yet, "independents" are the folks that too often vote to put social engineering socialist "liberals" in power. Boggles the mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Chingach****:
Ok, that's cute with the Independent stuff, but I got a better answer.

The moderate "independent" crowd is just as likely to impose on their neighbors business as the "conservative" crowd, want to know how much income I made last year, want to force me into a ponzi scheme of a retirement system, want to raise my taxes for sports stadium, etc. However, I'll concede that "independents" are a lot less obnoxious in their nosiness than "liberals." Why they are practically conservative when you think about it.

See if you like this version:

(Just replace "conservative" with "independent.")

If an independent...
doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
is a vegetarian, he doesn't eat meat.
sees a foriegn threat, he seeks to defeat the enemy.
is a homosexual, he quietly leads his life.
is black or hispanic, thinks independent, successful.
is down-and-out, thinks how to better his situation
doesn't like a talk show host, switches channels.
is a non-believer, doesn't go to church.
decides he needs health care, goes shopping for it.
falls in a store, laughs and is embarrassed.
reads this, laughs

Works pretty good, yes?

And yet, "independents" are the folks that too often vote to put social engineering socialist "liberals" in power. Boggles the mind.

I never have really bought into this theory that Indpendents (or self-proclaimed Moderates) are somehow more politically pure than the unwashed masses.

I certainly do not vote strictly party. And I am very concerned abou the direction that the Republican Party is moving in (more toward the middle/left). But I am an unabashed conservative. And the fact that there is some movement right now doesn't require me to go out and find a new and exciting label.

I think sometimes people invent these new labels for themselves so that way they seem to be the "new cool thing"...

IMO the "Independent" subscribes to;

"prag·ma·tism (prāg'mə-tĭz'əm)
n.
Philosophy A movement consisting of varying but associated theories, originally developed by Charles S. Peirce and William James and distinguished by the doctrine that the meaning of an idea or a proposition lies in its observable practical consequences.

A practical, matter-of-fact way of approaching or assessing situations or of solving problems.

prag'ma·tist n., prag'ma·tis'tic adj."
(Source: Dictionary)

Well... I have a dictionary, too! And I could break all manner of definitions. But I'm not sure they would particularly add to this conversation.

I think often times people just pick the label that they think sounds most sophisticated and applies it... Moderates do this a lot. Rather than making a decision, they take a look at what everyone else believes, then they go with that!

Ok....this begs the question.....are Independants, Moderates and Centrists the same thing? Maybe the better question is what's the difference? Not to put specific folks here on the spot.....but we have two people here who state they are Independants yet their views are almost 180 apart. Can they be that far apart and still fall under the Independant umbrella?

There's a poll running around somewhere that shows more than half the country identify themselves with the Conservative philosophy.

quote:

are Independants, Moderates and Centrists the same thing? Maybe the better question is what's the difference?

No. I don’t know too much about Moderates and Centrists but to me, they seem to take no stand and love to sit in the center and watch the world go round. The majority of centrists around these parts appear to lean left. And the left wants more rules, higher taxes, income redistribution and to own as many welfare slaves as possible.

Independents, such as me, think the government is too big, has taken too much power and want to be left alone. I tend to lean far right because there is more freedom over there. I don’t care what others do, just leave me alone. I don’t care who people screw just don’t tell me about it. I don’t care if you drink, smoke or do drugs. I think drugs and prostitution should be legal. I think there should be no limit on the number or types of firearms non-felons can own/carry. If you don’t want to wear a helmet or seatbelt, fine, just don’t cry to me when you crack your skull. Do whatever you want just don’t hurt anyone.

TJ, it's not entirely one sided though.

If a conservative disagrees with abortion, he / she wants it outlawed for everyone.

If a conservative believes that marriage is between one man and one woman, he / she wants their definition to apply to everyone.

Please keep in mind that I am not a fan of abortion, in particular, late term abortion. I just think that you can find extreme examples on both sides.

I guess I don't count as a liberal, since I don't want to see guns outlawed, I love red meat, and I'm always looking out for myself. I consider myself an independent, based on the fact that I have a lot of conservative views as well as views that are left of center. I realy hate the (R) and (D) labels though, since they don't paint the whole picture.

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
Do whatever you want just don’t hurt anyone.

Perfectly said.

Kevin, I think conservatives are against abortion because they know the fetus is a baby and therefore, the procedure stops a human heart and someone is harmed.

As for homosexuality, I think they’d be a lot less friction if there were less flamboyant and vocal homosexuals and if acceptance of homosexuality was not ‘forced down their throats’ so to speak. Few people enjoy other’s sexuality being thrust into their faces (except in the cases of a lap dance, of course).

quote:

Independents, such as me, think the government is too big, has taken too much power and want to be left alone. I tend to lean far right because there is more freedom over there. I don’t care what others do, just leave me alone. I don’t care who people screw just don’t tell me about it. I don’t care if you drink, smoke or do drugs. I think drugs and prostitution should be legal. I think there should be no limit on the number or types of firearms non-felons can own/carry. If you don’t want to wear a helmet or seatbelt, fine, just don’t cry to me when you crack your skull. Do whatever you want just don’t hurt anyone.

I would describe that more as more Libertarian than independent. Independent to me means you care more about the issues than the political affiliation; some times you agree with the right, sometimes the left, and sometimes neither. For example, an Independent may be someone that feels it is important for the government to take care of the needy, but also believes abortion is murder....that stance would be a major conflict with both parties.

I am not a fan of either party, the socialist leanings of the far left scare me as much as the right imposing their "morality" so I tend to go more by candidate than political affiliation, and it genearlly turns into the lesser of two evils.

Its really too bad the Libertarian Party isn't a major player, I think they would do well with independents if they could crack the two party system and not just be a wasted vote.

While I consider myself an independent, I wouldn't be so bold as to speak for other people with minds of their own, so I'll take my own crack at this list.


If a conservative doesn't like guns, he doesn't buy one.
If a liberal doesn't like guns, he wants all guns outlawed.
I believe that there is a fundamental difference that can be explicitly delineated in the world between people who seek gun ownership for home protection, food and sport, and those who acquire them to kill others, and if policy can find that line and restrict the latter group from obtaining weapons, it should do so.

If a conservative is a vegetarian, he doesn`t eat meat.
If a liberal is a vegetarian, he wants all meat products banned for everyone.
I say to each his own at a personal level, but in the interest of world food security, at a government level we should look at how our policy encourages worldwide meat production in places when that interest isn't well served, and start making smarter decisions.


If a conservative sees a foreign threat, he thinks about how to defeat his enemy.
A liberal wonders how to surrender gracefully and still look good.
I believe that any direct threat to our nation should be aggressively pursued and eliminated, using economic, diplomatic, and military means. I think that the decision to sacrifice US lives and treasure on war should be a sober decision that leaves no other alternative and gives careful consideration to what the externalities are likely to be.

If a conservative is homosexual, he quietly leads his life..
If a liberal is homosexual, he demands legislated respect.
I don't think that logic would apply to a real conservative, or anyone who wants to be free. Following that logic, black americans would still be riding on the back of a bus, just keep your head down and quietly live your life...
If you're being discriminated against by virtue of policy, fight to change the policy. If you build enough support and public opinion is in your favor, things will change. I don't begrudge anyone for voicing an opinion, provided its well-informed and well-reasoned.

If a black man or Hispanic are conservative, they see themselves as independently successful.
Their liberal counterparts see themselves as victims in need of government protection.

I believe that no one in this country is successful in a vacuum, we owe something back to the system that provides the opportunities we all enjoy. From a national perspective, providing certain benefits contributes to more national growth than we would have without it, but like any other policy there are winners and losers. I believe that policy should be designed to eliminate unsustainability, simple handouts and free rides as much as possible, which is why I think welfare should continue but be subject to significant reform, and social security should either be heavily redesigned or phased out with the last generation of system participants.

If a conservative is down-and-out, he thinks about how to better his situation.
A liberal wonders who is going to take care of him.
Same as the above answer.

If a conservative doesn't like a talk show host, he switches channels.
Liberals demand that those they don't like, be shut down.
I believe in actively watching both sides of issues; on the bus ride to work I watch highlights from Fox and CNN, to get perspectives from both sides, not because I believe their facts, but because so many people watch them I have a leg up on what people are gonna be talking about. For my own personal news, I tend to watch the evening news and NPR, the former because the slower cycle allows for some fact-checking and quality control, the latter because, despite being left leaning, they allow real, civilized debate, and present both side of an issue in a way that allow me to make up my own mind.

If a conservative is a non-believer, he doesn't go to church.
A liberal non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it's a foreign religion, of course!)
I'm probably more conservative here; I'm sort of in the middle of working out my relationship with God, but I don't mind references to God on my coins or in a classroom. If I was a governor, though, I would probably not permit anything explicitly religious on public display on government property...christmas trees are OK, nativity scenes, pentagrams, atheist posters, or whatever would not be on public display on government property, as it just opens the floodgates and interferes with getting business done.

If a conservative decides he needs health care, he goes about shopping for it, or may choose a job that provides it.
A liberal demands that the rest of us pay for his.

I think a careful examination of our health care policy, including who's winning and losing, and ultimately whether the productivity and prosperity of the nation is being affected, should guide health care reform. Having talked to folks in a number of countries who grew up with public health care and now see it as a non-political issue, and seeing the shameful state of the US health care industry at actually providing care relative to the rest of the world, I think a public option is the way to go, but that's completely my take on a vastly complicated and personal subject.

In summary, I believe too many conservatives and liberals complain about problems.
I believe in finding consensus and looking for solutions.

Under, I believe that I am more of a libertarian too, but I once wrote that here and I had a libertarian whine because I didn’t fit the entire bill. So, rather than start that silly mud fight again, I went with independent. But I don’t care about political parties. The two major ones pretty much suck.

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
But I don’t care about political parties. The two major ones pretty much suck.

Yet your original post shows your slant toward one over the other.

Yep, the labels have limited meanings, and the parties suck, and politicians of all label are about equally corrupt, and everybody is independent in the sense that they don't agree on everything with any other individual, let alone a whole political party.

I'm pretty much libertarian in outlook, like most of the posters in this thread. But the Libertarian party tends to be full of, dare I say, extremist kooks, and them guys demand strict orthodox libertarianism. The Libertarian Party will never, ever, no way... get anybody elected to any office higher than Dog Catcher, well, maybe a state representative now and then, but that's it.

Now, this business of voting the candidate instead of the party. Oklahoma has, I think, seven members in the House of Representatives. Six R's, one D. People vote for this D, (David Boren, Tulsa) because he's a "moderate" and he's a Boren, familiy dynasty, Daddy run OU, stuff like that. As a "moderate" and "independent" Democrat, he opposes gun control, claims to favor fiscal responsibility, stuff like that. However, he votes like 95% of the time with San Fran Nancy Pelosi, and certainly voted to make her the Speaker of the House. Vote for a Democrat, and you vote for big government socialist Democrat policies, it's as simple as that.

I will say again, and repeat as often as necessary...

In (almost) any general election, you have only two choises... The party of big government, and the party of even bigger government.

Make up your stinkin' mind!

quote:

Originally posted by PferdHing:

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
But I don’t care about political parties. The two major ones pretty much suck.

Yet your original post shows your slant toward one over the other.

Liberal and conservative are not political parties.

quote:

Yet your original post shows your slant toward one over the other.

Possibly but if so, I am forced there. I believe that liberalism is evil. I believe it is harmful to the nation. I believe liberalism makes our nation weaker and makes slaves out of the weak minded. I speak out strongly against liberalism and get as far away from liberalism as I can.

Although I understand why you feel I might vote for more republicans, if you saw my ballot you’d see it is spread out all over the place. I break down to about 30-30-40- 30% Democrat - 30% Republican - 40% Other - and occasionally ‘None of the Above’.

I really wish that our politicians would give us better choices. I am normally forced to vote for the lesser of two evils. And that is disappointing!