I been watching this MI/FL voting mess with a little interest. I'm a Florida resident and have a house in Michigan. The DNC (actually Howard Dean) really dropped the ball on this one. When he penalized MI & FL, he never anticipated the Clinton/Obama race would be so close this far along and that every delegate was important. Not that I'm complaining but IMO he put the Dems in a horrible position. I'll make a prediction that some residents from either state will file a federal lawsuit if their votes/delegates do not get counted somehow.

Here in CA thousands of votes weren't counted. I work the polls and an Indepentent voter was tutored on where to put the ink spot. We had a very good Poll worker, she had worked the polls for 20 years. None of ours was in the count of people whose votes were canceled.

I would doubt that a lawsuit would gain much traction. There was no federal requirement that they hold a primary at all. Further, they were out of order with the sanctioning body, the DNC. Everyone had prior knowledge of the DNC guidelines. Having said that, I think there will be do-over primaries in both states. Everyone can save face, and any other approach will be too contentious. Going to the convention with only 48 states represented would be totally unsatisfactory.
Having the do-over could well provide Hillary with the avenue she needs to steal this thing yet.

Other than race and gender whats the difference between these two candidates? Im having a hard time seeing it. Therefore, a recount would be a waste of time and money. Plus it will let the media get back to more pressing news. Like Lindsey Lohan (sp?) and Brittney Spears. Heck i havent heard about Anna Nichole Smith in a while.

Anybody want to cough up the dough for a recount, I believe they'll be happy to stage one for us.

I think the internal pressure for new primaries will come from super-delegates, who are generally (but not always) rich, well-placed mofos who don't want to see party allegiances tested under fire ... particularly when we have been touting our solidarity all this time.

They better start hoping for a combined ticket. I know black women are estactic they have Obama, but I don't think he can beat McCain on his own.

quote:

Originally posted by SociallyAutistic:
They better start hoping for a combined ticket. I know black women are estactic they have Obama, but I don't think he can beat McCain on his own.

Hillary needs Obama if she wins nomination. He would be a real asset. But if he wins, he absolutely does not need her, and would be a fool to take her. He would be wise to choose a woman, but one who does not have a history of alienating voters.

quote:

Originally posted by SociallyAutistic:
... particularly when we have been touting our solidarity all this time.

Solidarity isn't very solid. In fact, I think what we are seeing is a behind the scenes power struggle between the Kennedys and Clintons. Both of their machines are hard at work.

I am enjoying all this ‘do over’ discussion. The very party that cries about voter disenfranchisement is doing that very thing to their own voting base! And they did this intentionally! The ONLY reason these votes might be counted or another primary held is because the Clinton Machine is behind and they will change the rules to win if necessary. This discussion has nothing to do with the voters vote counting for anything! The Democrat officials could care less about the voters! They now see that their decision has created a mess because, when they made the decision, the Clinton Machine was well in control of the party’s nomination.

The Democrats set the rules before the primary season began. Everyone knew the rules and even the media brought up the fact that these multi-millions of votes would not count. Both Florida and Michigan knew the consequences of their moving their primaries to an earlier date yet they decided to do it anyway. I would normally say that they wrote the rules so live by them. But who is being harmed by this Democrat decision? It is not the Democrats party officials; the ones that made the decision. They maintain their power. They keep getting paid. The people being harmed in this Democrat created mess are the voters. They had no power in the decision but they are being punished for that decision.

‘Do over‘, what a humorous concept in today’s politics. The Democrats made this mess and the taxpayers should not be held accountable for paying to clean up this mess. They made the mess, let them pay for the clean-up! At least this time the Democrats are not blaming the Republicans for screwing up the Florida election!

Let the games continue!

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
.....I would normally say that they wrote the rules so live by them. But who is being harmed by this Democrat decision? It is not the Democrats party officials; the ones that made the decision. They maintain their power. They keep getting paid. The people being harmed in this Democrat created mess are the voters. They had no power in the decision but they are being punished for that decision.

That pretty well sums up why they must have a do-over. Unfortunately, it could tilt things back to Hillary. And of course, if they did not have a do-over, many voters would be so angry, that they vote republican in the fall. But then, if the voters perceive Hillary as stealing the nomination by this method, they are likely to vote republican. Whew! Republicans must smile.

You're correct. The arguement is between the DNC and the state party...not the voters directly. That's why I predict a lawsuit BY the voters if the DNC and state parties don't it together.

Should the voters have to pay for it??? That's a tough one to answer. The voters register with the respective state parties to represent them.

On one hand, they (MI & FL) knew the DNC (Howard Dean) wanted to keep his New Hampshire pals protected so their rightful "entitlement" to having the first US primary vote stays in place. Yes I know NH has a state law saying they have to schedule their voting ahead of eveyone else in the country. All that's for is to keep the NH folks feeling like they're important by being first to vote in the nation. Whether the state parties like it or not, those are the rules and they knew it.

On the other hand, does FL & MI have the right to choose when or how they should vote? Should they have to toe the DNC/RNC lines and play by the rules if they want to be heard?

I don't know for sure. I'm leaning more towards states rights vs the DNC or RNC's interests.

I liked the solution I heard on TV. Everyone votes at the same time. That puts everyone on a level field, no more trying to one up the other guy. That doesn't help the current situation but it should be looked at for next time.

From what I have heard, if the Florida votes counted, Hillary would have benefitted greatly and I really don't like Hillary.

BUT, how the hell can you tell so many voters that their vote doesn't count? That's absurd!

And I don't even want to get started on the "Super Delegates". I'm not a Democrat but I would be livid if someone's vote was seen as being worth hundreds or thousands of ours. Not sure of the actual amount but hopefully you see my point.

Don

Tuba, the Republicans would not need another primary as that decision is done. So that will save some money if there is a ’do over’. But why should ’We the People’ be forced to pay for a decision that the DNC made? They screwed it up and they should pay! As I see it, the Democrat voters are being punished for the decisions of the party.

Don, I believe that Obama didn’t even campaign strongly in those states because he understood that those votes would not be counted. So a ‘do-over’ would seem to punish Obama and benefit Hillary.

I think the DNC should authorize re-votes until the "correct" candidate wins.

quote:

Originally posted by disagreed:
Tuba, the Republicans would not need another primary as that decision is done. So that will save some money if there is a ’do over’. But why should ’We the People’ be forced to pay for a decision that the DNC made? They screwed it up and they should pay! As I see it, the Democrat voters are being punished for the decisions of the party.

Don, I believe that Obama didn’t even campaign strongly in those states because he understood that those votes would not be counted. So a ‘do-over’ would seem to punish Obama and benefit Hillary.

No, I didn't mean to imply that the Repubs would need another primary. I'm saying that if the FL & MI Democrat voters feel disenfranchised during the primary season, they will be so PO'ed that they vote Republican in the fall. The Dem's know and fear that, so they have to find a way to make the votes count.
Unfortunately, I see the taxpayer getting stuck in those states. The states hold elections under the guidance of the respective Secy's of State, and the whole process is state funded.

quote:

Originally posted by tubaman2:

quote:

Originally posted by SociallyAutistic:
They better start hoping for a combined ticket. I know black women are estactic they have Obama, but I don't think he can beat McCain on his own.

Hillary needs Obama if she wins nomination. He would be a real asset. But if he wins, he absolutely does not need her, and would be a fool to take her. He would be wise to choose a woman, but one who does not have a history of alienating voters.

I couldnt agree more, and I wonder if McCain would be willing to play the same game. If he picked Huckabee, that would be a solid ticket I think.

What I find interesting is if you read alot of the news articles that allow comments, its pretty clear that most Democrates are not happy with their choices for the nomination.

Neither have really any experience, many feel Hillary will think only of herself and harm the party. You reap what you sow, and they could have picked Joe Biden.

T

I don't watch the stuff politions say. There is too much junk in thier statements.
Then when they get in their the same as always
Same crap different day

McKain/J.C. Watts '08

Michigan's governor is one of HRC's cronies - a canadian liberal pig, if you ask me. I don't know how she got in office up here. Michigan has more conservative, gun carrying rednecks than any other state I've lived in. I guess it's the black vote in detroit or something.

anyhow, it was weird seeing the dem ballot when i voted in MI wiht only one name on it.

(BTW, i didn't vote for her. )

Democratic Dilemma

The Democratic Party has a crisis of monumental proportions;

They don't know whether to vote for the "Nut" with two Boobs,

or the "Boob" with two Nuts...

Wray...