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Originally posted by FourString:

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Originally posted by Mazski9:

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Who would Jesus hang by his thumbs (or water board)?

We don't have to worry about that in the U.S. anymore as the left is trying to run Jesus out of the country too. The only time the left envokes the name of Jesus is to make a point. Shameful!

I got a good laugh out of that one. "Run Jesus out of the country"? This shows just how out of touch certain people really are. Jesus can't be "run out of the country" because he knows no nation. He lives in peoples' hearts and he preaches love and compassion. I think the Old Testament is better suited for war mongers.

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Originally posted by FourString:
scrounge,

So Jesus through everyone out of the temple? So what? Did he follow that up by simulating the drowning of the people he was pissed at? Did he go futher than just getting angry and begin to torture and kill people? How consistent is he? Does he condemn people to an eternity in hell for not turning to Him?

As for your last comment, what's your point? The Nazis rejoiced in mass murder and genocide. Does that give the U.S. the right to engage in barbaric behaviour as well? The bigger point is that water boarding is not barbaric behavior. It's persuasive and not life threatening.

You can respond if you want, but "debating" with you is useless. You don't listen, and just like Hannity and Savage, you creat your own argument that has nothing to do with what was originally stated. I don't agree with your flawed logic...too bad, deal with it.
Have a nice day. For the record, I don't answer to debate, I answer to clear up the missguided appeasing/apologists...Because I enjoy my freedom to dissent and disagree withy those that disagree and dissent as a knee jerk reaction, you know the tolerant few that do not choose to tolerate an opposing opinion.

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:

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Originally posted by Mazski9:

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Who would Jesus hang by his thumbs (or water board)?

We don't have to worry about that in the U.S. anymore as the left is trying to run Jesus out of the country too. The only time the left envokes the name of Jesus is to make a point. Shameful!

The "left" is not trying to run Jesus out of the country. I know it's a strange concept but some people believe that religion should be kept in the home and the church, and never in school or government. Its called separation of church and state

Again the liberals take Jefferesons letter out of context.

Do you even know why he wrote that letter? Do you know what the intent in the letter is about?

So scrounge if we allow religion in public school and government. Which religion should it be? How about every religion even one I just made up where everyone worships cactus.

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:

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Originally posted by Mazski9:

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Who would Jesus hang by his thumbs (or water board)?

We don't have to worry about that in the U.S. anymore as the left is trying to run Jesus out of the country too. The only time the left envokes the name of Jesus is to make a point. Shameful!

The "left" is not trying to run Jesus out of the country. I know it's a strange concept but some people believe that religion should be kept in the home and the church, and never in school or government. Its called separation of church and state

Again the liberals take Jefferesons letter out of context.

Do you even know why he wrote that letter? Do you know what the intent in the letter is about?

So scrounge if we allow religion in public school and government. Which religion should it be? How about every religion even one I just made up where everyone worships cactus.

Great job answering the direct questions..

Do you even know why he wrote that letter? Do you know what the intent in the letter is about?

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:
I'm making a decree. From now on all religion will be taught in public school and celebrated in government buildings along with all the practices. This includes Polygamy, devil worshiping and ritual sacrifice. In my cactus religion I have a practice where I must take 5 hours out of every work day to pray to the cactus god. You must let me off for this or I will sue you for religious infringement. Because, if we let other religions do it we must let all

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:
I'm making a decree. From now on all religion will be taught in public school and celebrated in government buildings along with all the practices. This includes Polygamy, devil worshiping and ritual sacrifice. In my cactus religion I have a practice where I must take 5 hours out of every work day to pray to the cactus god. You must let me off for this or I will sue you for religious infringement. Because, if we let other religions do it we must let all

Still no response to the direct questions....

Was Jefferson a Christian? What book was he "editing" in the White House? What has he been quoted as saying about Christianity?

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Originally posted by FourString:
People like scrounge Labeling and generalizing again? think that if people want religion kept out of the government and out of the public arena, that people are trying to destroy religion all togther. This makes me question just how strong their faith is. How arrogant and pompous of you, you do realize you are shoving your beliefs (or lack thereof) down my throat, right? After all, if every church The "church" is not a building, it is the body of believers, so yep, you are partially correct. were to disappear tomorrow, could not Jesus and his teachings of forgiveness and love for ones enemies Why is it that liberals a;laways remember these teachings, but forget the ones about responsibility, accountability and serving God first, in all things? live on in peoples' hearts and mids? A church can exist in a persons' mind.

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Originally posted by FourString:
It's about both. Jefferson clearly states that religion is "solely between Man & his God", which indicates that he possibley held a more private, and less "evangelical", view of religion as a whole. The seperation of church and state does not mean that people who engage in poltical duties should abondon their faith. It simply means that religion will not become intigrated with official political business, and also that the government will not decide which religions are appropriate and which ones are not.

But, having said all of that, we must also remember that there's only one person who definitely knew what Jefferson was saying in his letter, and person would be Thomas Jefferson himself.

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FourString:
It's about both. Jefferson clearly states that religion is "solely between Man & his God", which indicates that he possibley held a more private, and less "evangelical", view of religion as a whole. The seperation of church and state does not mean that people who engage in poltical duties should abondon their faith. It simply means that religion will not become intigrated with official political business, and also that the government will not decide which religions are appropriate and which ones are not.

But, having said all of that, we must also remember that there's only one person who definitely knew what Jefferson was saying in his letter, and person would be Thomas Jefferson himself.

Religous leaders never wanted to run government....

It's about government not controlling (establishing) religion....But in this nation you are certainly allowed to interpret and warp anything you like, you are even allowed to repeat it endlessly and gather likew mindede people together to voice silly opinions.

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:
Scrounge, I told you I could give a crap less what Jefferson has to say on the subject. I believe religion and government should be completely separate. Let me ask you a question. Would you be comfortable with Pages of the Koran next to the ten commandments at courthouses and government buildings? If you accept one you have to accept them all.

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Originally posted by scrounge:

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:
Scrounge, I told you I could give a crap less what Jefferson has to say on the subject. I believe religion and government should be completely separate. Let me ask you a question. Would you be comfortable with Pages of the Koran next to the ten commandments at courthouses and government buildings? If you accept one you have to accept them all.

I'm not comfortable with people not of faith trying to use that faith's Bible incorrectly and out of context.


I know you don't give a crap....It's quite clear.

I also remember that the founding fathers used the Bibnle as a stronge resource, that our three separate but equal brancjhes of government concept came from the Presbyterian church's form of leadership.

Ignoring the real source from where we got our freedom's is a huge mistake.

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Originally posted by FrankieFunk:
Scrounge, What make you think I an "not of faith". I have very strong faith. Is it beacuse it's not the same faith as you that you are attacking me? I have no problem with people having faith in whatever they want. The problem I have is mixing religion with government. America is a melting pot this country was founded on the believe that every American is free. Free to voice you opinions, Free to believe in whatever political system you want and vote that way and yes free to worship whatever god you want or none at all. When you mix religion in with government however, it discriminates against people who do not believe that way. Would you like to live under a dictatorship that has a state sponsored religion that forces you to believe. What if it wasent what you believed? The purpose of a free democratic government is the govern for all people regardless of religious beliefs.