As we enter the tax season and the elections heat up the words of Davey Crockett ring as true today as the day he said them! The link provided tells the story of why Davey Crockett while serving in the Congress voted against providing a stipend to a Navy Officers widow. Although it is a bit of a long read it is well worth it! Too bad we do not have more Congressmen that think as he did!

It's not yours to give

Marklf

Thanks Mark,
That was very interesting.
Peace,
Dick

Common sense a rarity in congress today

A good read.

"Common sense a rarity in congress today"

Today in Congress, what passes for "Common sense" is a viewpoint that the Federal Government should be responsible for all of the problems and issues that face the American public. This creates a "nanny state" where too many people are looking to the Federal Government for solutions instead of relying on themselves, their family and their local community! Look at what the presidential candidates are promising if they get elected! Why is "health care" even being discussed by them? Where in the Constitution does the Federal Government have the authority to do anything about insuring people's health care? Does anyone really believe that a "health care system" run by the Federal Government would be better designed or run then one that is provided by the individuals that need it? Does anyone really think that our education system has been improved by the intrusion of the Federal government? Look at the mess that the Federal Government has done with Social Security! Why would anyone want the Federal Government involved in any more aspects of our lives??? Yet ALL of those that are running are making promises to spend more money, that's not theirs to give! Those that think that the only solution to the issues that face the American public is for the Federal Government to become involved, show their lack of respect for the individual citizens and are creating a dependency on the government that we as a nation cannot afford!

Marklf

quote:

Why is "health care" even being discussed by them? Where in the Constitution does the Federal Government have the authority to do anything about insuring people's health care?

Just for the record (and though not everyone agrees) the Constitution's "promote the general welfare" covers it.

...gjd

GJD,

"Just for the record (and though not everyone agrees) the Constitution's "promote the general welfare" covers it."

Even if you follow that loose reading of the Constitution it says to "promote" NOT "provide" the general welfare!

Marklf

quote:

Even if you follow that loose reading of the Constitution it says to "promote" NOT "provide" the general welfare!

Whoops, sorry -- that's in the Preamble. But in the body of the constitution, specifically Article I Section 8, it states, "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States. . .

Thus the Constitution does authorize Congress to tax in providing for the general welfare (as well as the common defense).

One analogy would be the creation of the Air Force, even though the Constitution only specifically calls for the establishment of an Army and a Navy (and, by extention, the Marines).

...gjd

GJD,

Ahh yes but you fail to mention that Article 1 section 8 goes on to specify just how the Congress can provide for the "General Welfare"! It specifically states;

"To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof. "

Notice there is no mention of health care, education, Social Security, subsidies for for big or little corporations.....!

Lets not forget that the 10th amendment also states those powers not delegated to the Federal Government by the Constitution (such as the power to provide health care, education, Social Security, subsidies...) are reserved for the States AND/OR the PEOPLE!!!!

To quote Horatio Bunce "The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitu- tion, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution."

Marklf

quote:

To quote Horatio Bunce "The people have delegated to Congress, by the Constitu- tion, the power to do certain things. To do these, it is authorized to collect and pay moneys, and for nothing else. Everything beyond this is usurpation, and a violation of the Constitution."

To quote the Supreme Court, ruling on a 1937 challenge to Social Security on same the grounds and using the same argument you use:

quote:

. . . Second: The scheme of benefits created by the provisions of Title II is not in contravention of the limitations of the Tenth Amendment.

Congress may spend money in aid of the "general welfare". Constitution, Art. I, section 8; United States v. Butler, 297 U. S. 1, 65; Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, supra. There have been great statesmen in our history who have stood for other views. We will not resurrect the contest. It is now settled by decision. United States v. Butler, supra The conception of the spending power advocated by Hamilton and strongly reinforced by Story has prevailed over that of Madison, which has not been lacking in adherents. Yet difficulties are left when the power is conceded. The line must still be drawn between one welfare and another, between particular and general. Where this shall be placed cannot be known through a formula in advance of the event. There is a middle ground or certainly a penumbra in which discretion is at large. The discretion, however, is not confided to the courts. The discretion belongs to Congress, unless the choice is clearly wrong, a display of arbitrary power is not an exercise of judgment. This is now familiar law. "When such a contention comes here we naturally require a showing that by no reasonable possibility can the challenged legislation fall within the wide range of discretion permitted to the Congress." United States v. Butler, supra, p. 67 Cf. Cincinnati Soap Co. v United States, May 3,1937,--U. S.--; United States v. Realty Co. 163 U. S. 427, 440; Head Money Cases, 112 U. S. 580, 595. Nor is the concept of the general welfare static. Needs that were narrow or parochial a century ago may be interwoven in our day with the well-being of the nation. What is critical or urgent changes with the times.

Read also the cited US v. Butler

I'm not a lawyer, and surely not a Constitutional lawyer, but based on the above I think I'm reading that provision correctly.

...gjd

This message has been edited. Last edited by: geejaydee,

quote:

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

Can not 'health care' be a commodity? In that, can not Congress regulate it? Especially since it provides for the "general welfare" of the union.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Wehr:

quote:

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

Can not 'health care' be a commodity? In that, can not Congress regulate it? Especially since it provides for the "general welfare" of the union.

Please explain to me why liberals (not that you are one..or that there is anything wrong with that ) want the government they DO NOT trust to be involved in their health care??????