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Military.com Forums Coast Guard Discussions The Soapbox What do "conservatives" think about this site?|
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Member |
When your debating evolution versus creationism you have to take one thing into account. Not everyone believes in God. Therefore saying that the universe was designed by "God" or even a Higher Power is irrelevant to some people because to them there is nothing of the sort. To me it's the lesser of two evils. Evolution is flawed because its based on scientific theory and even with as much technology that we have nobody can say for sure what descended from what or what happened millions of years before and person living today. But I think creationism is more flawed because it's based on belief there is absolutely no science or fact to back it up it's ALL speculation. At least with evolution you have data, With creationism you basically have Zilch.  |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Here's some of that "zilch" you speak of... http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=search&f_typeID=1 one excerpt: For example, the black fire beetle (as it is called in Canada), like many animals in creation, requires special conditions in which to breed. This insect needs burnt wood from a blazing forest fire! But how does it find such conditions? It has been designed with special sensors -- sensilla -- in tiny pits on its underside that can actually pick up infrared (IR) radiation from the flames of a fire. This capability to detect infrared radiation (either from a fire, or heat produced by an animal) is quite amazing and has no evolutionary mechanism of development. As is known, this beetle (there are several species on several continents) and some snakes such as the pit viper are the only creatures with this ability. |
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Member |
scrounge, now your falling back on the universal question. "where did this all come from" or "why are we here". I have always believed that any man is pompous that claims he knows the answer to that question. This goes for the evolution camp as well. The truth is nobody knows. People have theory's. But as I stated before to claim like alot of religions do that there is one solid answer to these questions is ludicrous. The reason ive always leaned the way of evolution is there is evidence. Fossils from Millions and Millions of years ago. The beetle story you reference is defiantly unique but you forget about adaptation. Fish at the bottom of the ocean are blind because they have adapted that way after centuries and their other senses are heightened not because a "god" willed them to be blind. |
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Member |
it's a good thing the overgods spent the time to bring that beetle in their spaceship to this planet or we might not have it to enjoy......if you believe one story of where things come from you have to be open to all stories......i think they should start teaching mine in schools....
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Highly Experienced Member |
No, I was actually falling back on the fact that science does reveal intelligent design...that's all. The only claim I'm making is I HAVE FAITH in God. I'm not telling you to. I'm explaining what I believe and that I see proof...some from science as well. It's called faith for a reason....I used to consider (when I was an aetheist) that faith was the achilles heel - that when those silly religous fools couldn't say anything else they fell back on faith- Now I see it differently. Now I understand the power in that faith...and I see the results from a personal relationship with a living God. Again, I'm not saying "you should" or anybody else has to. I understand your "pompous" claim...When I read on a state sponsored sign, at a state run or federally funded state park "four milion years ago...." I see pompous all over those words. Some get upset because of the conviction (solid belief system - unshakeable)but if your faith isn't real and solid, it's not faith. I don't claim to know the answer..or to know many of them, I do claim that I trust the answer I read from God's word. |
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I went to church as a child, I believed in God. Then my sister got raped by the minister I lost my faith in man and God, I'm now an agnostic
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Highly Experienced Member |
That's terrible. I'm truly sorry, satan is called the deceiver of the brethren for a reason. It's not as if sin isn't a problem for those of faith. |
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Member |
Scrounge, I am just curious. You said you used to be an atheist. What happened to change your mind?
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Highly Experienced Member |
It happened incrementally, first I opened up to what believers spoke of, because of the peace some people I knew, lived in (I wanted to know what it was they knew, or had that I didn't have)...Then I objectively read Mere Christianity by C S Lewis, another former Atheist....I then did as instructed, placed what little faith I had in something I didn't fully understand....Then...As I studied the Word...I gave up me, the more me I gave up, the more I recognized God working in my life (and especially in my families life)...The more I did this (the more I relied on the Lord) the more I recognized his answering my prayers and giving me a sense of peace, (living in Joy - which is not jump up and down joy) seeing this life and it's problems as temporal and the new life (salvation) as permanent and everlasting (all aternity). |
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Member |
Interesting, I myself have many people around me that are strong believers but I have never seen it. It has always seems less like a way to help people and more like a way to control people. I'm speaking of organized religion here. Faith is different I think you can have a very strong faith without believing in god |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Many do...(have strong faith in things beside God). I saw it as control before...now I view it differently. What I thought was freedom before I see as slavery now, what I thought would be slavery before I see as Freedom now. Concerning churches and the power of unity and corporate (not corporation - corporate as in numbers united) ability.... The church I belong to works in India directly helping orphans and persecuted believers. Additionally, I belong to a group of 100 men that have committed $10.00 per week for two years, the total figure in the end will be $100,000.00. This money was intended to create an entire village in South Africa, for AIDS orphaned children...the intention was to build this village for 48 children, it turns out we are building this village, school, trade school, church, homes, stores etc and it will house 480. That is just few things these corporate resources are able to provide. |
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Member |
While I agree that some churches do allot to help people, others are very selective. I live in Salt Lake City, which is dominated by one religion (I wont say which one but I'm sure you can guess). This religion is more than happy to help people under one condition, that you conform to their beliefs. I don't agree with this at all. I think all people who need help should get it no matter what they believe.
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Highly Experienced Member |
You are correct, you can't force people to believe in something, it's a better plan to try to win them over. |
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Member |
Why is It important to win them over? cant you let them believe what they want? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
The great commission. Compassion for those that I believe will spend all eternity in a place separated from all... including God, with a perfectly intact memory, all eternity reliving that they had every opportunity to not be there. There is only thing that won't be better in heaven, the ability to help someone avoid eternity in hell. Obviously I let people believe what they want...Obviously God let's people believe what they want, He, through the great commission command, expects other believers to pass on "the gospel" (the good news), and He gave people free will, so that they don't worship Him simply because they fear Him, but because He loves them and offers this free gift of salvation. |
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Member |
So what if your wrong? Wont you regret in death trying to turn people to a way that was all a big farce? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
If I'm wrong I'm going to regret providing what I thought was the truth? More importantly....I'm not forcing anything....I'm answering queries.....Providing from where and why I believe what I do. Why would I regret that? Why would I remember that.... if I die and simply turn to dirt and dust. I don't understand why you would claim I am "trying to turn people". I am not, I am explaining what I believe, the choice is up to each of us. Without the information you have less choices and less understanding of others beliefs. |
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Member |
And if the Christian right got their way, Creationism would be the one belief shoved down everyone's throats. As far as "facts" are concerned, there are no facts supporting creationism? You meant Genesis? That's a creation myth, not fact. |
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Member |
Great points FourString. If creationist had there way there would be no science in school at all, just "god science". I have always wondered how do fundamentalists explain dinosaurs or "Jesus lizards". |
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Member |
Oh here is how they explain it. Dinosaurs and people lived together only 6000 years ago, My bad  http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1056282,00.html |
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