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Basic Training
Picture of ETu_Bruta
Posted
Although I don't think a draft will come out of the "War On Terror," I just started thinking about- what if it did? How does it work in a present day with drug tests, and a less physical (beatings) boot camp. I wasn't around for Vietnam, but I hear that your C.C.'s could basically beat you through boot to motivate you to finish (or maby I just watched Full Metal Jacket too much); plus you couldn't really get kicked out for drugs in those times, if I'm not mistaken.

It seems there would be to many loop-holes today for a draft to work.

Breitbar.com
 
Posts: 118 | Registered: Thu 01 February 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
I don't really believe that a draft would be very practical or enforceable in this day and age.

For one thing, more and more high schools have eliminated physical education because of budget cuts. Add to that, the lousy eating habits of America these days and the end result of one hell of an obesity epidemic.

The next limiting factor to consider is the number of young persons who have been on psychotrophic drugs such as Ritalin (for ADHD), Zoloff (for depression) and others.

The third limiting factor would be the attitude of the draft-aged persons themselves. It was hard enough enforcing selective service 35 years ago with the Baby-Boom generation. Today's generation of young persons is intelligent and, I believe, understands the "strength in numbers" concept in they if one or more receive a draft notice, they would (propably) not burn it as did the Baby-Boomers during the Vietnam Era, but simply tell the government to "pack sand" and toss their notice into the trash can. Government is having enough problems paying for the present conflicts abroad and hasn't a hope in hell to raise the necessary funding to enforce a draft.

The other day, the Army announced that they would be paying close to $45,000 as a bonus to those who enlisted into that organization. We might as well be hiring mercenaries to do our dirty work for all it's worth.

Selective Service (the Draft) was a viable solution for building an army 35 and more years ago. Then, young persons had a healthy respect for the law. Today is a totally different situation, especially after former President Jimmy Carter issued his blanket pardon to those who dodged the draft during the Vietnam era.

The draft in the 21st Century is a non-starter.

mw
 
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Basic Training
Picture of Sn_Cf
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Posts: 155 | Registered: Fri 30 December 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of 7555925
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Many countries worldwide have mandatory service. Military, civil, other. Probably wouldn't be such a bad thing.

--M
 
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Thu 09 November 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
Experienced Member
Picture of Hooligan1790
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Seems like we aren't the only ones thinking about this.

Bush Adviser
 
Posts: 6173 | Registered: Sun 22 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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Picture of 7555925
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Some of the Dems were talking about this last election. (Rangel circa 2003)

--M
 
Posts: 1194 | Registered: Thu 09 November 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
If the Bush Administration can actually get selective service to work in this day and age, I'll
  • Eat my old Coast Guard Donald Duck flat hat
  • Reregister my voter party affiliation from Non-Partisan (independant) to Republican
Eek
 
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"I am not giving them hell. I am just describing it, and it seems like hell."
Harry S Truman

Picture of geejaydee
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by M_Wood51:
I don't really believe that a draft would be very practical or enforceable in this day and age.

For one thing, more and more high schools have eliminated physical education because of budget cuts. Add to that, the lousy eating habits of America these days and the end result of one hell of an obesity epidemic.

mw


Mark, perhaps things haven't changed that much:

quote:
The poor health of many World War I draftees, with 29.1% judged unfit for service, surprised many who were unfamiliar with the health problems of younger, poorer US citizens. In Michigan alone, >30% of all registrants for the draft in 1918 were rejected because of thyroid enlargements that were the direct result of iodine-poor diets, an indication of the types (and variety) of health challenges facing the nation's youngest citizens


Source

quote:
About 40% of WWII draftees were rejected due to ill heath, bad eyesight, or bad teeth due to malnutrition, a result of the Great Depression amongst other things

Source

It was this situation that led to the establishment of the National School Lunch Program -- a program that has been notoriously underfunded in recent years, and which many would now like to wipe out in the name of "Welfare Reform."

The type of health problems and physical condition of our youth is probably different now, but the result is just about the same.

...gjd
 
Posts: 8584 | Registered: Thu 11 July 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
Yea George but I wouldn't envy the military lifers who would have to try to "lead" the conscripts of today's generation.
 
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"I am not giving them hell. I am just describing it, and it seems like hell."
Harry S Truman

Picture of geejaydee
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Were the 60s any better?



Roll Eyes

...gjd
 
Posts: 8584 | Registered: Thu 11 July 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
George,

There were a few non-qualifiers that presented themselves as social stigmas in the 60s but are more acceptable in the non-military sector now. As such, if a young person really wanted to avoid being conscripted today, he or she could tell the draft board that they were either gay or lesbian. Likewise, a person could light up a joint or smoke or shoot an opiate just prior to his or her draft physical, just in time for a urinalysis. And as mentioned, some of the psychotrophic drugs that young persons take today, prescribed or not will be unqualifying factors without much stigma once the person leaves the MEP and draft board.

Either the armed forces will need to revise certain regulations or the feds would need to come up with or stiffen the penalty just for the presence of certain chemicles in the blood system. Don't really think that's going to happen without a lot of yelling by the civil liberties lobby.

American culture has indeed changed over the past 40 or so years and this change will make enforcing a draft all the much more difficult unless a miracle takes place and Gen Y & Z catches an epidemic of patriotism and blind obedience (which ain't gonna happen either).

Mark
 
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"I am not giving them hell. I am just describing it, and it seems like hell."
Harry S Truman

Picture of geejaydee
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quote:
if a young person really wanted to avoid being conscripted today, he or she could tell the draft board that they were either gay or lesbian. Likewise, a person could light up a joint or smoke or shoot an opiate just prior to his or her draft physical, just in time for a urinalysis. And as mentioned, some of the psychotrophic drugs that young persons take today, prescribed or not will be unqualifying factors without much stigma once the person leaves the MEP and draft board.


Mark, as you probably recall, back in the 60's all you had to do was declare yourself a "litter bug" -- at least according to Arlo:

quote:
They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."

And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."

Didn't feel too good about it.

Proceeded on down the hall gettin more injections, inspections,
detections, neglections and all kinds of stuff that they was doin' to me
at the thing there, and I was there for two hours, three hours, four
hours, I was there for a long time going through all kinds of mean nasty
ugly things and I was just having a tough time there, and they was
inspecting, injecting every single part of me, and they was leaving no
part untouched. Proceeded through, and when I finally came to the see the
last man, I walked in, walked in sat down after a whole big thing there,
and I walked up and said, "What do you want?" He said, "Kid, we only got
one question. Have you ever been arrested?"

And I proceeded to tell him the story of the Alice's Restaurant Massacre,
with full orchestration and five part harmony and stuff like that and all
the phenome... - and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, did you ever
go to court?"

And I proceeded to tell him the story of the twenty seven eight-by-ten
colour glossy pictures with the circles and arrows and the paragraph on
the back of each one, and he stopped me right there and said, "Kid, I want
you to go and sit down on that bench that says Group W .... NOW kid!!"

And I, I walked over to the, to the bench there, and there is, Group W's
where they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committing your special crime, and there was all kinds of mean nasty ugly
looking people on the bench there. Mother rapers. Father stabbers. Father
rapers! Father rapers sitting right there on the bench next to me! And
they was mean and nasty and ugly and horrible crime-type guys sitting on the
bench next to me. And the meanest, ugliest, nastiest one, the meanest
father raper of them all, was coming over to me and he was mean 'n' ugly
'n' nasty 'n' horrible and all kind of things and he sat down next to me
and said, "Kid, whad'ya get?" I said, "I didn't get nothing, I had to pay
$50 and pick up the garbage." He said, "What were you arrested for, kid?"
And I said, "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the bench
there, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till I
said, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand,
and we had a great time on the bench, talkin about crime, mother stabbing,
father raping, all kinds of groovy things that we was talking about on the
bench. And everything was fine, we was smoking cigarettes and all kinds of
things, until the Sargeant came over, had some paper in his hand, held it
up and said.

"Kids, this-piece-of-paper's-got-47-words-37-sentences-58-words-we-wanna-
know-details-of-the-crime-time-of-the-crime-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-
you-gotta-say-pertaining-to-and-about-the-crime-I-want-to-know-arresting-
officer's-name-and-any-other-kind-of-thing-you-gotta-say", and talked for
forty-five minutes and nobody understood a word that he said, but we had
fun filling out the forms and playing with the pencils on the bench there,
and I filled out the massacre with the four part harmony, and wrote it
down there, just like it was, and everything was fine and I put down the
pencil, and I turned over the piece of paper, and there, there on the
other side, in the middle of the other side, away from everything else on
the other side, in parentheses, capital letters, quotated, read the
following words:

("KID, HAVE YOU REHABILITATED YOURSELF?")

I went over to the sargent, said, "Sargeant, you got a lot a damn gall to
ask me if I've rehabilitated myself, I mean, I mean, I mean that just, I'm
sittin' here on the bench, I mean I'm sittin here on the Group W bench
'cause you want to know if I'm moral enough join the army, burn women,
kids, houses and villages after bein' a litterbug." He looked at me and
said, "Kid, we don't like your kind, and we're gonna send you fingerprints
off to Washington."

And friends, somewhere in Washington enshrined in some little folder, is a
study in black and white of my fingerprints. And the only reason I'm
singing you this song now is cause you may know somebody in a similar
situation, or you may be in a similar situation, and if your in a
situation like that there's only one thing you can do and that's walk into
the shrink wherever you are ,just walk in say "Shrink, You can get
anything you want, at Alice's restaurant.". And walk out. You know, if
one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and
they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,
they may think they're both ******s and they won't take either of them.
And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in
singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an
organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said
fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and
walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

And that's what it is , the Alice's Restaurant Anti-Massacre Movement, and
all you got to do to join is sing it


Back when I enlisted in NY, I had my physical at the USPHS in lower Manhattan. It went something like this. . .

Doc: I detect a slight heart murmur. I can disqualify you if you want. . .

Me: No. I want to join.

Then the rest of the physical, including the good old finger wave. . .

Doc: Does it hurt?

Me: Uhh, no.

Doc: Does it feel good?

Me: Well. . . No!

Doc: Oh. . .

He really sounded disappointed! Eek But I was sworn in, and reported to Cape May just a few days later...


Big Grin ...gjd
 
Posts: 8584 | Registered: Thu 11 July 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
Experienced Member
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They were going disqualify me from the Coast Guard for flat feet. However, it would not have disqualified me from being drafted into the Army. I told the doctor I was an enlistee not a draftee and he said "What flat feet?" Cool
 
Posts: 6173 | Registered: Sun 22 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8QUECGG1&show_article=1

got to wonder when it'll happen once the advicers start down the road to considering a draft......
 
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Fri 26 November 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
"I am not giving them hell. I am just describing it, and it seems like hell."
Harry S Truman

Picture of geejaydee
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quote:
got to wonder when it'll happen . . .


Temperature in Hell: 100° F and falling! Eek

...gjd
 
Posts: 8584 | Registered: Thu 11 July 2002Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
Depends upon the relative position of hell and the definition of what is is. Wink


As good a place for hell as any other.
 
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Posts: 2208 | Registered: Fri 26 November 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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quote:
Originally posted by SacraficialMetal:
now the backpeddling and damage control begins;

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070813150223.tj19y2s7&show_article=1


......again would this be considered a lack of planning for the draft, or lack of planning to win in iraq?
 
Posts: 2208 | Registered: Fri 26 November 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
<M_Wood51>
Posted
From the Breitbart article...

"The Pentagon sharply rejected Monday a key general's assertion that a return to the military draft has always been "an option on the table" and should be considered.
"I can tell you emphatically that there is absolutely no consideration being given to reinstituting the draft," said Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman. "The all-volunteer force has surpassed all expectations of its founders."
"

Gotta love the right-wing not-so-mainstream media.

It is quite obvious that within the confinds of the Beltway, one hand knows not what the other hand is think nor is there any real neural coordination between the two.

Begs the question - will it get better or worse now that Rove is leaving?
 
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Mom never liked you, you son of a...
Picture of JerryG
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Selective Service is still active, but behind the scenes.

I know a couple of CGR CWO's whose Reserve jobs are to maintain little Selective Service offices within the different services' Recruiting Offices.

Basically, if their offices are up to speed, and the draft starts up, their Selective Service job is over and they have to find another CG Reserve billet to drill at.
 
Posts: 6336 | Registered: Tue 23 January 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete Message
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