My boy is in Baghdad, he's a M.P. I'm proud of his service and 99.9% of everybody else. Without going into details, there's some Reserves wet behind the ears just out of investigating school who are trying to hang our MP's for something that never happened. Even the prisoner who was being released never said anything. Guys who sit safety behind a computer who haven't shot their gun or don't even know what the hell is happening around them.
Also before a prisoner was released he was given laser surgury on his eye. What, so he can become a better sniper? A Gerneral going on a prisoners bus saying he was sorry that they were in prison and he hopes that our countries can get along in the future. So more Reserves handing out gifts to them, before they were taken away, as they were released.
For you soldiers who served there if you read this, what the hell are we doing there? Running a day care center. The Iraq men that we're training to be cops and soldiers are being process through the prison system. Then being released. Knowing out tatics that "WE" taught them. How you guys come in a room. Soft spots on a Humvee etc. I hate it when over 4,000 brave Americans died and over 1,000 Blackwater type men. But when prisoners are getting better treatment than our poor here at home, that's bull. One Mad American & Dad

Just out of curiousity, what exactly was your previous opinion?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by chicagomanxx00:

"Also before a prisoner was released he was given laser surgury on his eye. What, so he can become a better sniper? A Gerneral going on a prisoners bus saying he was sorry that they were in prison and he hopes that our countries can get along in the future. So more Reserves handing out gifts to them, before they were taken away, as they were released. What the hell are we doing there? Running a day care center."

The point of your letter is a little murky but we get the general sense of your outrage. You've raised some interesting questions in the above quote. I don't know who the "prisoners" are that you refer to, or why some were "released." But evidently we gave at least one of them eye surgery, passed out gifts, and gave speeches to some in which our officers hoped for a better future.

What's wrong with that?

How about fighting a radical ideology in a radical way? Give all prisoners adequate medical treatment. Fix their teeth, treat them humanely, and, yes, surgically treat their eye problems. Give them decent cells. Treat them and their values with respect. No more flushing the Koran down the toilet or shooting it full of holes. Give them decent food. Be polite and friendly. Expose them to nothing more than American cable TV. Keep them as separate as possible from one another so they can't unionize against your treatment and your propaganda. Don't treat them like guests at a fancy hotel, but don't treat them like vicious animals either. (That's what they expect you to do.) Hold classes so that they know what a representative democracy like ours looks like. Tell them the conflict saddens us, even if it's a lie. Bamboozle them. Corrupt and weaken their stereotyped view of the US as enemy with simple politeness. It doesn't cost anything.

In other words, show them the kind of life they MIGHT just lead under a Democratic government. Provide them with a role model.

Maybe the guy whose eye got fixed will be less likely to become a sniper.

RMax, Murky, want didn't you understand? Your bringing up old stuff that's been taken care of. But you Liberals are very good at that. A MP may be brought up on charges because he brushed up against a prisoner. BRUSHED.But I guess our soldiers are all liars and killers. Maybe we should bulid a Hilton over them, would that make you happy?
Sgt Schlappy, my son was 13 when 911 happened. On that day he decided he was going to join the Army. He took College classes in High school and was an Honor student.He wasn't a dummy like Democracts say that join the Army. But from what he tells me, what he can tell me, from the Iraq Gov't, Police to their Soldiers their corrupt. Our guys are getting killed for no good reason.

quote:

Sgt Schlappy, my son was 13 when 911 happened. On that day he decided he was going to join the Army. He took College classes in High school and was an Honor student.He wasn't a dummy like Democracts say that join the Army. But from what he tells me, what he can tell me, from the Iraq Gov't, Police to their Soldiers their corrupt. Our guys are getting killed for no good reason.

First of all, God bless you, your son and your family for being patriots...and a special thank you to your son for serving his country, he is a true hero.

Second, I don't think the treatment of the prisoners should be directly tied to the corruption of the Iraqi government in the context your using it. Sure, I want our people treated better and not have them risking life and limb on behalf of proping up a corrupt government. However, we still shouldn't lose sight that Iraqi prisoners are human and are entitle to basic human rights. I don't know the details of the "eye surgery", the "General's apology" or the "gifts"...(if you have a link you could post I'd appreciate it)...but if they were prisoners that were found not guilty and this was done upon their release, than I don't have a problem with it

People who believe that you can kill islamic fundamentalism with KINDNESS or humane treatment are not unlike the people who might believe the world is flat. You cannot act kind to these people. You cannot show them compassion. You cannot show them these things because THEY TAKE IT AS WEAKNESS! and in doing so, fuel their appetite to spread their disease. There is only one way to deal with these kinds of people...............BRUTAL, uncompromising measures, just as the Koran teaches THEM to use. This is what they understand and they respect it and they understand even that if they lose, it is "Allah's" will. You cannot use western methods on people who are of eastern thought. This is the worst yet most constantly repeated mistake in U.S. foreign policy in the region.

quote:

Originally posted by Fantaros:
People who believe that you can kill islamic fundamentalism with KINDNESS or humane treatment are not unlike the people who might believe the world is flat. You cannot act kind to these people. You cannot show them compassion. You cannot show them these things because THEY TAKE IT AS WEAKNESS! and in doing so, fuel their appetite to spread their disease. There is only one way to deal with these kinds of people...............BRUTAL, uncompromising measures, just as the Koran teaches THEM to use. You cannot use western methods on people who are of eastern thought. This is the worst yet most constantly repeated mistake in U.S. foreign policy in the region.

That's a lot of preconceptions stuck into one paragraph. For instance, I don't know where you got the idea that showing "them" compassion is "the worst yet most constantly repeated mistake in U. S. foreign policy in the region." That's not the picture we get from the "war crimes file" that the FBI was keeping about the CIA's treatment of Gitmo "detainees."

And when you say that "they" will see any humane treatment on our part as a sign of weakness, that's a pretty stale notion. You're sure you don't mean that people with your attitudes -- only brutality will work -- will see it as a sign of weakness? It might come as a big surprise to an Islamic fundamentalist that even our jails are better than the normal lives they were leading at home.

I'd agree with you that you can't kill Islamic fundamentalism with humane treatment. I wasn't suggesting that. What I meant was that we've been trying your techniques -- "brutal, uncompromising measures" -- and we see where that has led. That's why I called my suggestion radically different. If it doesn't work, what have we lost that we're not already losing. Maybe we can't "kill" it but we might just "weaken" it and save American lives.

And you may be mistaken about the way the detainees would respond, unless you're an expert in Middle Eastern psychology. As far as we know, some of these people have not been charged with anything or brought to trial. Some were swept up and turned in for bounties by neighbors. I guess after 5 years of detainment without due process, it's too late to turn them loose because if they weren't anti-American when turned in, they sure are now.

They are, though, human beings before they are Moslems. They can pick and choose which principles of the Koran to follow, just as Christians pick and choose from the Bible. Was our first impulse after 9/11 to "turn the other cheek" or to "smite them hip and thigh"? The Koran is filled with ambiguities and contradictions like that. I know Moslems who abhor violence against anyone and are ashamed of the sectarian conflict we now see in the Middle East. But, as human beings, if punched in the nose, they will immediately want to punch back and get revenge, like anybody else, regardless of religion. How about if we stop punching them in the nose for a while and see what happens?

I agree that treating those people humanly
will be taken by then as a weekness by most of them, but some will get the idea and maybe that will spread.
I don't want young americans to learn the idea that mistreatment of helpless people is OK. We get people our back from these places with their minds messed up enough.

Shockey

RMax, There isn't any links for the subjects I described. My son doesn't lie, he saw and heard these things. I understand what your saying and I agree to a point.The innocent should be treated with kindness and given whatever they need to get their life back on track. The problem is if their really are innocent.
I'm not comparing the 2 wars, sorry conflict, Nam and Iraq. But when the G.I.'s walk by a smiling South Vietnamese sometimes they got shot in the back. Same principal in Iraq.I'm getting tired of hearing water boarding is torture. People saying ever if the guy had info that could save thousands of American lives they wouldn't use it. Because when, or if, one of our guys is captured they'd do the same to them.
Wait. They only chop they heads off and put it on the internet. Drag their bodies behind a truck. Burn them. Between the two if my boy was captured,water board him.
These "prisoners" have dental, medical, Army made their own Pray area, own type of food. Damn they have it better than our middle and lower class living in the USA. Plus if their over 50, they get a Colonoscopy.
What should we do there? I'm not that smart. I don't have all the information like hopefully our Gov't does.I have an opinion and it's not Obamas. I just wish since we're there get some oil like all the MSM thinks we went there for in the first place.