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Osama bin Laden said in a new audio recording released Friday that al-Qaida will continue its holy war against Israel and its allies until it liberates Palestine.

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Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

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Osama bin Laden said in a new audio recording released Friday that al-Qaida will continue its holy war against Israel and its allies until it liberates Palestine.

Their definition of "liberation" is the problem.

OBL and his supporters define it as Israel's destruction and a return of the land to the gypsies who previously ruled over it. Not gonna happen.

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Originally posted by DougSabbag:

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Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

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Osama bin Laden said in a new audio recording released Friday that al-Qaida will continue its holy war against Israel and its allies until it liberates Palestine.

Their definition of "liberation" is the problem.

OBL and his supporters define it as Israel's destruction and a return of the land to the gypsies who previously ruled over it. Not gonna happen.

That's why "negotiations" would take place. And though YOU consider them "gypsies", they lived in homes which require bulldozers to knock them down.
And the "Not gonna happen" concept has already led to SIXTY YEARS of an ongoing conflict, which has increased in scope, not decreased.

Another words, something OTHER than the "not gonna happen" policy has to be applied.

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Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

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Originally posted by DougSabbag:

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Originally posted by Sgt_Schlappy:

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Osama bin Laden said in a new audio recording released Friday that al-Qaida will continue its holy war against Israel and its allies until it liberates Palestine.

Their definition of "liberation" is the problem.

OBL and his supporters define it as Israel's destruction and a return of the land to the gypsies who previously ruled over it. Not gonna happen.

That's why "negotiations" would take place. And though YOU consider them "gypsies", they lived in homes which require bulldozers to knock them down.
And the "Not gonna happen" concept has already led to SIXTY YEARS of an ongoing conflict, which has increased in scope, not decreased.

Another words, something OTHER than the "not gonna happen" policy has to be applied.

The gypsies can go back to their homeland of Jordan and Egypt if they don't like the current situation or the options that are presented to them.

They had a chance for a new homeland (a generous offer btw) and they decided that the status quo of violent conflict was preferred. That generous offer is now off the table and they have no one but themselves to blame.

Israel is determined to survived...and bottom line is, with or without our assistance, they will.

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Originally posted by DougSabbag:
I am very surprised, and even dissappointed that barely anyone is interested in discussing this topic. Per our number one "enemy", the Palestinian oppression / occupation is what they are fighting us for. So, when the reason for the conflict is put forth THAT CLEARLY, unlike the mixed generalities, and twisted concepts which our media outlets tell us, aren't YOU a bit disgusted that AMERICANS are dying to defend the Israeli CRIMES, which would appropriately be called CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!??
I do not belive the country of Freedom and justice for ALL should be defending one groups' oppression of another.
AND, considering we should not want to have a "War on Terrorism" forever, aren't you just a tad interested in a way to end it? According to our enemy, if we stopped supporting their oppressors in their crimes against humanity, they would no longer have such a hatred for us that they are inspired to commit suicide to kill as many of us as they can. Sounds like a healthy step to me! And considering the last 60 years of conflict over these injustices have not accomplished anything except an INCREASE in hostilities toward US, obviously SOMETHING NEW should be tried. DON'T YOU THINK SO TOO?

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And you have avoided my American point of view question: WHY SHOULD AMERICAN SOLDIERS / MARINES DIE TO DEFEND THIS ISRAELI CRIME?

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Originally posted by DougSabbag:
Zionism is an international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish People in Palestine (Hebrew: Eretz Yisra'el, “the Land of Israel”), and continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel.[1]

Although its origins are earlier, the movement was formally established by the Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl in the late 19th century. The movement was eventually successful in establishing Israel in 1948, as the world's first and only modern Jewish State. Described as a "diaspora nationalism,"[2] its proponents regard it as a national liberation movement whose aim is the self-determination of the Jewish people.[3]

While Zionism is based in part upon religious tradition linking the Jewish people to the Land of Israel, where the concept of Jewish nationhood is thought to have first evolved somewhere between 1200 BCE and the late Second Temple era (i.e. up to 70 CE),[4][5] the modern movement was mainly secular, beginning largely as a response by European Jewry to antisemitism across Europe.[6] It constituted a branch of the broader phenomenon of modern nationalism.[7] At first one of several Jewish political movements offering alternative responses to the position of Jews in Europe, Zionism gradually gained more support, and after the Holocaust became the dominant Jewish political movement.

The word "Zionism" itself is derived from the word "Zion" (Hebrew: ציון, Tzi-yon), one of the names of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel, as mentioned in the Bible:

and the ransomed of the LORD shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.(Isaiah 35:10)

It was coined as a term for Jewish nationalism by Austrian Jewish publisher Nathan Birnbaum, founder of the first nationalist Jewish students' movement Kadimah, in his journal Selbstemanzipation (Self Emancipation) in 1890. (Birnbaum eventually turned against political Zionism and became the first secretary-general of the anti-Zionist Haredi movement Agudat Israel.)[8]

Certain individuals and groups have used the term "Zionism" as a pejorative to justify attacks on Jews. According to historians Walter Laqueur, Howard Sachar and Jack Fischel among others, the label "Zionist" is in some cases also used as a euphemism for Jews in general by apologists for antisemitism.[9]

Zionism can be distinguished from Territorialism, a Jewish nationalist movement calling for a Jewish homeland not necessarily in Palestine. During the early history of Zionism, a number of proposals were made for settling Jews outside of Europe, but ultimately all of these were rejected or failed. The debate over these proposals helped to define the nature and focus of the Zionist movement.

Since the first century CE most Jews have lived in exile, although there has been a constant presence of Jews in the Land of Israel (Eretz Israel). According to Judaism, Eretz Israel, or Zion, is a land promised to the Jews by God according to the Bible. Following the 2nd century Bar Kokhba revolt, Jews were expelled from Palestine to form the Jewish diaspora. In the nineteenth century a current in Judaism supporting a return grew in popularity. Even before 1897, which is generally seen as the year in which practical Zionism started, Jews immigrated to Palestine, the pre-Zionist Aliyah.[10]

Jewish immigration to Palestine started in earnest in 1882. The so-called First Aliyah saw the arrival of about 30,000 Jews over twenty years. Most immigrants came from Russia, where anti-semitism was rampant. They founded a number of agricultural settlements with financial support from Jewish philanthropists in Western Europe. The Second Aliyah started in 1904. Further Aliyahs followed between the two World Wars, fueled in the 1930s by Nazi persecution.

In the 1890s Theodor Herzl infused Zionism with a new and practical urgency. He brought the World Zionist Organization into being and, together with Nathan Birnbaum, planned its First Congress at Basel in 1897.[12] This current in Zionism is known as political Zionism because it aimed at reaching a political agreement with the Power ruling Palestine. Up to 1917 this was the Ottoman Empire, and then until 1948 it was Britain on behalf of the League of Nations. The WZO also supported small scale settlement in Palestine.

Lobbying by Chaim Weizmann (cultural Zionists) and others culminated in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 by the British government. This declaration endorsed the creation of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine. In 1922, the League of nations endorsed the declaration in the Mandate it gave to Britain:

The Mandatory (…) will secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion.[13]

Palestinian Arabs resisted Zionist migration. There were riots in 1920, 1921 and 1929, sometimes accompanied by massacres of Jews. Britain supported Jewish immigration in principle, but in reaction to Arab violence imposed restrictions on Jewish immigration.

The1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine led the British to establish the Peel Commission to investigate the situation. The commission called for a two-state solution and compulsory transfer of populations. This solution was rejected by the British and instead the White Paper of 1939 proposed an end to Jewish immigration by 1944, with a further 75,000 to be admitted by then. In principle, the British stuck to this policy until the end of the Mandate.

After WWII and the Holocaust, support for Zionism among Jews and Gentiles increased. The British were attacked in Palestine by Zionist groups because of restrictions on Jewish immigration, the best known attack being the 1946 King David Hotel bombing. Unable to resolve the conflict, the British referred the issue to the newly created United Nations.

In 1947, the UNSCOP recommended the partition of western Palestine into a Jewish state, an Arab state and a UN-controlled territory (Corpus separatum) around Jerusalem.[14] This partition plan was adopted on November 29th, 1947 with UN GA Resolution 181, 33 votes in favor, 13 against, and 10 abstentions. The vote itself, which required a two-third majority, was a very dramatic affair and led to celebrations in the streets of Jewish cities.[15]

The Arab states rejected the UN decision, demanding a single state with an Arab majority. violence immediately exploded in Palestine between Jews and Arabs. On 14 May 1948, at the end of the British mandate, the Jewish Agency, led by Ben-Gurion declared the creation of the State of Israel and the same day, the armies of four[16] Arab countries invaded Palestine.

During the following eight months, Israel forces defended the Jewish partition and conquered portions of the Arab partition, enlarging its portion to 78 percent of mandatory Palestine. The conflict led to an exodus of about 711,000 Arab Palestinians [17], of whom about 46.000 were internally displaced persons in Israel. The war ended with the 1949 Armistice Agreements, which included new cease-fire lines, the so-called Green line.

After the war the Arabs continued to reject Israel's right to exist and demanded that it retreat to the 1947 partition lines. They sustained this demand until 1967 when the rest of western Palestine was conquered by Israel during the Six-Day War, after which Arab states demanded that Israel retreat to the 1949 green line, the only "borders" currently recognized by the international community. These borders are commonly referred as the "pre-1967 borders". The border with Egypt was legalized in the 1979 Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty, and the border with Jordan in the 1994 Israel-Jordan Treaty of Peace.

After the creation of the State of Israel the WZO continued to exist as an organisation dedicated to assisting and encouraging Jews to migrate to Israel, as well as providing political support for Israel.

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Originally posted by PanzerMeister:
OBL's issue with you, is that you are not the right kind of Muslim. The rest, is rhetoric. If you buy it, you are as naive as Popsiq.

I see that you equal Zionism with theft. Can you look at the definition of Zionism, and explain the connection?


"WHY SHOULD AMERICAN SOLDIERS / MARINES DIE TO DEFEND THIS ISRAELI CRIME?"

Lets me rephrase it.

Why should Israeli soldiers die in order to defend USA citizens, which are clearly committing crimes?

This question, matches yours in rhetoric and logic.

Can you answer it?

Do you support peace negotiations? OBL does not. Do you support peace? OBL does not.
I can barely fathom out the reasons for using this maniac as credible source for the discussion.

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Originally posted by PanzerMeister:
But they did buy the land...

However, i must point one important fact. Zionism, or at the very least his unofficial spirit is dead. It is dead and rotting, one (but not the sole one) of the reasons for it, is our failed system of education.

Back to topic:

1)Israel acquired the land via peaceful methods, until independence war. Jews suffered attacks from local Arabs at the very least from 1920-ies, far before they stole anything.

2)During Independence war, which happened after Arabs decided to finish Hitlers handiwork, we took forcefully some lands. Arabs, did that too. Further more, they have evicted Jews from their homes and seized their property, a fact which is conveniently ignored.

3)To tell you the truth, i do not understand your question either "WHY SHOULD AMERICAN SOLDIERS / MARINES DIE TO DEFEND THIS ISRAELI CRIME?" Where does it happen? Iraq? This is your own war, and while we supported it, and continue to do so, we hardly caused it.

4)I do not belong to the kind of people that negotiate with OBL goons. I do not care what he wants, nor will i listen to him. If he wanted to talk, he would have talked. Instead he bombed WTC in 1993, right during the Oslo peace process.

OBL is a liar, and hopes for people to have short memory.

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Originally posted by PanzerMeister:
Keren Kayemet is hardly the only fund dedicated to buying the land. There were private citizens that owned the land, and later they gave it to Israel Government.

Some of the land in MPalestine was No-mans land, and as such it could been given to us.

The overall amount of stolen land is far less than your estimates.