quote:

And finally, the PGR is supposed to support the military, not come on to an internet forum and protest military "Entitlements". Did you need the definition again?

First, I have and will always stand tall with sorrow at any/all Fallen Heroe's funeral and stand in support of his/her mourning family and friends...in all temperatures, in all weather conditions. I support our Troops in ways you can never imagine (you REALLY don't want to go there on this one; you'd LOSE!!). I'm voicing my opinion (Protesting???? ROFLMAO!!!) as an American taxpayer, as well, a long-time military spouse and *gasp* a military veteran. Being a PGR member does not void me from my rights as an American; the same rights "I" have fought for and defended when you were a tyke. I am not representing the PGR in this dialogue therefore, why would you entertain the thought of bringing it into this conversation?

Why do you feel that America should take care of YOUR family? We (as in my spouse and I) pay (paid) our own bills, taught our own son about financial accountability, etc. and certainly don't encourage him to have children at a young paygrade in the military or even thereso in civilian living. Neither have we encouraged or shown him that he is 'entitled' to anything. We've shown him that his #1 responsibility is 'him' and anything he creates is his alone. We taught him all things are 'earned', not entitled. At least we can't be blamed for perpetuating the feeling of entitlement; something newer generations lately seem to impress upon. I can tell you that if my military spouse's BAH were to go to the level of what a single member's of his same paygrade would be, we'd do just fine. How 'bout you? Living within your means?

So the federal government mandates these so-called 'entitlements', it doesn't mean I as a taxpayer has to agree with them or have no opinion of them. FTR, I've been no stranger to this topic of conversation. I've always been an advocate for EQUAL PAY and ALLOWANCES regardless of dependent or marital status. I've been branded amongst other military wives and military members, but really I couldn't give two squeezes.

quote:

P.S Storage fees are far cheaper than a mortgage or rental home for a family. I honestly don't see what the gripe is. To single service members: Stop living beyond your means or get married. What else is there to say?

ROFLMAO 'stop living beyond your means or getting married'????? THERE's good leadership advice!! Is that what you tell those single members junior to you? Did you not know that single military members actually OWN stuff?? EGADS!!! I would hardly put that as 'living beyond their means'. Oh wait, thats right, its okay for you to have toys in your garage, a vehicle, educational books in your own personal library, a computer, a tv, some cool electronic gadgets, decent clothes other than your uniforms, a refridgerator to hold your perishables, sheets, blankets, interesting pictoral literature, but God FORBID the single military member 'own' anything of his/her own. Oh but because its 'their's' it doesn't count. I am willing to bet that EVERYTHING that is in the very home you live in is not your spouse's or your daughters. Therefore........

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SearchNRescue,

quote:

Originally posted by Tonys_hag:
This topic has been beatin to death. I think I was the one who brought up the BAH, and I do apologize. Agree to disagree. Now,,,,how about those gas prices?

Thanks for reminding me. Time to pull the scoot out to ride. Weather is just about right just when gas prices suck the life out of the car anyways. LOL See what you get to do when the kids are all grow'd up??

Lisa, I guess we had a good bike week here in Daytona... I didn't get out... I was in Gainesville (VA Hospital) having back surgery for a few days of it. Home recuperating now... probably for the rest of the month....

I rented out my Mothers town house to a vendor that came from South Dakota. http://www.eyelenses4u.com/ That seemed to be a pretty goo gig.. Gonna do that for both bike weeks and both NASCAR events down here.. Should get a few Thousand each time... that will work for me.. that way I get to keep my car & bike there the rest of the year...

Are you still coming down in October?

Wray...

quote:

First, I have and will always stand tall with sorrow at any/all Fallen Heroe's funeral and stand in support of his/her mourning family and friends...in all temperatures, in all weather conditions. I support our Troops in ways you can never imagine (you REALLY don't want to go there on this one; you'd LOSE!!). I'm voicing my opinion (Protesting???? ROFLMAO!!!) as an American taxpayer, as well, a long-time military spouse and *gasp* a military veteran. Being a PGR member does not void me from my rights as an American; the same rights "I" have fought for and defended when you were a tyke. I am not representing the PGR in this dialogue therefore, why would you entertain the thought of bringing it into this conversation?

My point here was to ellaborate on how hypocritical your post sounded to me. No offense intended, I admire what the PGR does and nod my head to you. However, if it were me, I think my bike would veer itself too far port or starboard, if ya know what i mean. With that, if i had a bike I would love to participate. However, I can't "afford" it.

quote:

Why do you feel that America should take care of YOUR family? We (as in my spouse and I) pay (paid) our own bills, taught our own son about financial accountability, etc. and certainly don't encourage him to have children at a young paygrade in the military or even thereso in civilian living. Neither have we encouraged or shown him that he is 'entitled' to anything. We've shown him that his #1 responsibility is 'him' and anything he creates is his alone. We taught him all things are 'earned', not entitled. At least we can't be blamed for perpetuating the feeling of entitlement; something newer generations lately seem to impress upon. I can tell you that if my military spouse's BAH were to go to the level of what a single member's of his same paygrade would be, we'd do just fine. How 'bout you? Living within your means?

This one kind of really cracks me up. You have been living off the very thing you are complaining about for years, but yet you accept or accepted it each and every paycheck? Come on now. I've never said it should'nt be equal, I've only asked "why" it should be. You make single military members sound like soldiers returning from WWI. And for the record, I'm 30 and E-6, I would'nt go as far as saying too young or not a high enough rank.

quote:

ROFLMAO 'stop living beyond your means or getting married'????? THERE's good leadership advice!! Is that what you tell those single members junior to you? Did you not know that single military members actually OWN stuff?? EGADS!!! I would hardly put that as 'living beyond their means'. Oh wait, thats right, its okay for you to have toys in your garage, a vehicle, educational books in your own personal library, a computer, a tv, some cool electronic gadgets, decent clothes other than your uniforms, a refridgerator to hold your perishables, sheets, blankets, interesting pictoral literature, but God FORBID the single military member 'own' anything of his/her own. Oh but because its 'their's' it doesn't count. I am willing to bet that EVERYTHING that is in the very home you live in is not your spouse's or your daughters. Therefore........

Are you serious? Have you looked around at all? Come on now, this isn't the great depression we are talking about here. It's a matter of 4 tanks of gas in todays market.

You're right, I would'nt tell my junior people to get married just for BAH. But if thats their biggest gripe, "I don't like the fact that you get more BAH than me", "Well OS3, here is why and if one day you do marry, you'll receive that same additional pay". And yes, I WILL tell my people not to live beyond their means. And no, I don't live beyond my means, but I am a business owner, so my money is at risk.

quote:

Originally posted by Tonys_hag:


Well said Commschek. I agree with you.

Those of you who think married people w/ dependents should make the same amt of money are just off your rocker.
For DMC-C'mon don't bring civilian merits into this discussion. That is apples/organges.
People will always want equality. It is really strange. Haven't you heard of the saying "life isn't fair?"

Here, lets do this. Lets make the cost of living for a single person the same amt of money that the cost of living for those w/ dependents. That is equal right? You want equal pay? Well, I want equal cost of living.

You should reread my post.....before you make a statement....

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This one kind of really cracks me up. You have been living off the very thing you are complaining about for years, but yet you accept or accepted it each and every paycheck? Come on now. I've never said it should'nt be equal, I've only asked "why" it should be. You make single military members sound like soldiers returning from WWI. And for the record, I'm 30 and E-6, I would'nt go as far as saying too young or not a high enough rank.

Admittingly, I have been a voice of reason and principle about the BAH disparity for years. The only way to give back the BAH differential is for us to get a divorce; that is against our morals, religion and principles (we've been married since you were 5 years old ). On the other hand, I guess my military member could lie on his emergency data and dependent status information required by the military so he wouldn't get the differential but then he'd be subject to UCMJ for lying and/or falsifying government documents. So as you see, its not simple just as it is not simple for YOU to give back the inequitable difference between your tax rebate check vs. a single Servicemember's.

That said, what may surprise you since you like to sling it back my way, is we give back to community and we give back HUGE with more than that BAH differential. Oh and guess where??? Yup, Supporting the Troops!! So call me out one more time with your ineffective PGR comments insinuating that because I'm a volunteer in a troop support organization (originated to honor Fallen Heroes, mind you) should negate me from voicing my opinion on how the government spends our hard earned tax dollars. What you're essentially doing is slapping the face of one who voices EQUAL housing benefits for ALL Servicemembers (according to paygrade/rank) and not just a segregated group based on dependent status. At least I can say I support ALL of the Troops. Remember, the same finger you're pointing at me for voicing single members receive EQUAL benefits, there are four others pointing back at you for your feeling of 'entitlement' because of 'with dependent' status which prospers a better benefit package and putting more money in your pocket than a single Servicemember. Now, who's supporting the Troops? Therefore, IMO you've not pleaded your case effectively. Yes, it costs more for a family to live moreso than a single person BUT that is CHOICE. The family is not employed with the federal government, only the military servicemember.

Lets pose a scenario since we're on this whole BAH kick. Take two Master Chief Petty Officers; both have obviously worked hard in their careers to obtain the paygrade they have. MC #1 has no dependents; MC #2 has three dependents (spouse and two kids). According to the BAH guidlines, MC #1 with no dependents is 'entitled' (I despise that word) to LESS housing than what a MC #2. WAIT THOUGH!!! BOTH ARE E-9's!!!! They are not compensated based on MERIT but a discriminatory assessment.

DOD BAH GUIDELINES:

Without Dependents:
E-9 - Average rental cost of a two-bedroom townhouse plus 51 percent of the cost difference between a two-bedroom townhouse and a 3-bedroom townhouse.

With Dependents: E-9 - Average rental cost of a three-bedroom home, plus 16 percent of the cost difference between a three-bedroom and four-bedroom home.


So the disparity between two hardworking Master Chief's (or whatever rank/paygrade you wish to compare) is heavily different. Who is ANYONE (even our federal government) to assume 'well, MC #1 'doesn't need' a three-four bedroom home'. Shouldn't the living standards of BOTH MC's be the same? Both worked equally hard yet there is a huge difference. Essentially, MC #2 MAKES MORE MONEY simply because he has dependents. Yet, you think that is right? Because MC #2 married and added two tax deductions to society (which goes without saying that he will also reap additional tax breaks). Thats like saying one Master Chief deserves only a single bed while the other is entitled a full/queen/king sized bed. Silly, isn't it?

I have to ask a housing guru something since we're on this BAH kick. I am my military sponsor's dependent. If I were to go to biker heaven today, would my military sponsor's BAH entitlement status change? The sponsor would still be living in the same domicile, paying the same housing expenses. Would he be making LESS than in BAH simply because he doesn't have 'dependents' anymore? In otherwords, would his BAH level be changed from 'with dependent' to 'without dependent status'? I think it would. Sad isn't it, when put that way? He's being rewarded for having dependents.

Support Our Troops, they ALL need us!

WRAY, yes we will be coming down. Ice down the beerskis and tune up your "Rusty". This time, your bride will be able to go with us!! We were so sad that she couldn't last year. See if you both can get a day or two off from work so we can play together. BTW, that was an AWESOME Daytona 500 finish, wasn't it?

ok, ok I give up. Apparently you just proved the old addage that you can't teach an "OLD" dog new tricks. Live in your stubborn ways, as long as YOU benefit right? You have a horrible tendancy not to accept responsibility and place blame on something or someone else.

Furthermore, before you begin to "THINK" you know someone, maybe you should ask before you insinuate. You continue to toot your own horn and relish in your "saintly" ways about how you give a helping hand to society. And in the same breath you suggest in your comments that I don't? Like I'm some selfish troll. Well, Here you go....This past summer my wife and I reached into our own pockets and personnally bought 17 fostered and/or orphaned kids in our community enough clothes and school supplies to last the year. And we do intend to repeat the process this year, among other events for other deserving hands. (and no, before you say it, I did not write it off, had plenty with out it if you must know).

P.S. Are you Liberal? Just curious, your rants and rave mock that of a Liberal. Peace and Flowers!

quote:

ok, ok I give up. Apparently you just proved the old addage that you can't teach an "OLD" dog new tricks. Live in your stubborn ways, as long as YOU benefit right? You have a horrible tendancy not to accept responsibility and place blame on something or someone else.

and

quote:

P.S. Are you Liberal? Just curious, your rants and rave mock that of a Liberal. Peace and Flowers!

As the "OLD" sailor in me has surfaced to say, 'yer $hittin me, right???" Please stop!! Yer killin' me. ROFLMAO

Alright, I'm done. This topic was beginning to remind me of a Hemorrhoid, a pain in the a$$ that just would not go away. You can have the last word if you like, I'll bow out now.

quote:

Originally posted by CajunBM:
Drifter,

First of all, I am going to TRY to keep my comments nice, but it is very hard. Are you telling me that as a single E-7, I should be glad that I am not forced to reside in the barracks? I think you had better go and check yourself lad!

Second, how long have you been in the CG? Your profile shows about 2-3 years of service. If you haven't figured it out yet, this is not the other branches, it is the COAST GUARD! I don't care what the other branches do or don't do, so don't bring that mess in here. We don't conduct business the same way they do.

Third, you need to realize that you never know who you are talking to in these threads. Don't go on here assuming that all single members are junior enlisted and deserve to reside in the barracks. I am not going to sit here and listen to you tell me that I had better be glad my butt is not stuck in the barracks. Who are you to tell me or anyone else that?

BMC

Ok, well this is the only response I plan to give being that this thread is getting a little outta hand.

BMC, with all do respect, I am not new to the military, you pointed out my profile. Yes, I know the Coast Guard is a different branch, it's pretty obvious. I only stated what I said as a personal experience being prior service, and if my opinion on whether single members should get more, less, or none no matter the paygrade offends you, then that's on you. It's my opinion to have and voice. As far as "checking myself", aye aye Chief, but consider this, if bringing my experience from another place whether it be prior service or not, is shunned in the Coast Guard and you don't care to hear it, what kind of leader does that make you? Discrediting the knowledge I bring because I came from another branch.

BTW, yes in the Marines, of which I spent 5 years in, even E7-E9's can live in the barracks; as well as officers.

Re-reading my original post, I can see your frustration as it does appear to have been for the junior, but it still apllies to higher ranks as well. But like I said, this was from MY personal experience, and there are a LOT more prior service in the Coast Guard that can share with you the same experiences.

Semper Paratus.

BAH definitely needs to be reviewed in Mississippi, I'll tell ya!! As an E-5 w/dependents my BAH comes CLOSE to covering 95% of the cost of housing here I know it's only supposed to supplement around 80% or so, but not receiving COLA kinda reenforces the need for a bigger raise than the $2 one we just received. And for those of you that believe there isn't a need for COLA here in Mississippi, let me tell you that I have been stationed in Hawaii and the prices are not different enough to warrant COLA there but not here!! As for the sea pay issue, I'm approaching my 5 years this fall and I see no reason for an increase. I'm fine with the $230/mo I receive and agree that if you want more sea pay, go to sea more!! I'm at 2/3 sea time to 1/3 land time in my career right now and don't miss land one bit. I don't like the amount of time I'm away from my wife, but I don't complain about not receiving FSA (on a WPB) even though last year we were underway for right around 180 days. No, it wasn't for very long stretches, but we are underway as much if not more than I was when I was on an WHEC. If any of you are waiting for things to be "fair" when it comes to pay, you're in for a long wait. Try to manage your money as well as you can and when you get a little extra here and there, put it away for a rainy day. If you sweat all the small stuff, you're gonna be an unhappy camper...trust me!

I didn't read all the responses on this thread cause it's a little ridiculous and it seems that most people's responses are based on very subjective arguments. so, in any case, if I've repeated something in my response, please excuse me. Ok, here's my extremely simple objective response to the BAH issue:

BAH is not considered pay, it is an allowance that is supposed to be used to offset the cost of renting a home out on the economy. Therefore, the argument that it's not fair for one person to receive more pay than another person of a lower rank or dependency status actually holds no weight. Legally BAH has absolutely nothing to do with pay.

The simple reason why a member with dependents receives more BAH than a member without depns is because a member with depns needs more space to accomodate his/her depns. In most places I have been, the rental rates for properties out on the economy increase when the square footage increases.

That's it.

Wow this BAH talk upsets me!! I'm curious, how many of you that want everyone to receive equal BAH actually are married w/ dependants? If you do have dependants, why would you want this? You guys act like us married people do not need the extra couple hundred a month, or whatever it comes out to. Thats BS! Do you not think that military people should be allowed to have families? It's hard as it is for me to get a decent place in San Diego and provide for wife and baby.. But I guess that's my fault for wanting to get married and start a family before I retire at age 40.

As we all know, or at least most of us, the military doesn't pay us a ton of money. It's the benefits and perks here and there that make it somewhat worth it. I don't see any f'n issue with a married member receiving a few extra dollars a month to help pay for his/her family.

And to the people here making comments that single people have to find a house in the ghetto because they don't make enough money.. that is complete BS!! At least that's the case here in San Diego. Single E5 makes 1650 a month.. That is MORE than enough to get a very nice place, especially if they get a one bedroom. I make 1850 a month(and don't get me wrong, I am more than happy with that amount), I just don't understand the single members being forced to live in a crappy neighborhood. Hell, all of my single buddies are living a lot better than I am. Not to mention, we all know the majority of single people get roomates and bank half there pay anyways.. soo quit whining! I don't really have that option anymore, but once again, I guess that's my fault since I wanted to start a family.

Oh and one last thing, I will clarify and say that I don't think getting married means we "deserve" more money than a single member. I Just think its pretty awesome that we do get some extra money, and it sucks that some of you think we should not get it. I don't see how it affects anyone else.. might as well cut all benefits out for us military people... heck, I'm not on a cutter anymore, might as well get rid of underway pay too.

FTR, I am NOT saying to downsize BAH w/dependents to match the wo/dependent stats. I'm merely suggesting of upsizing BAH wo/dependents to equal. Perhaps the single servicemember wishes to get financially set before considering a family.

Also, I've been a military dependent for 25 years and yes, I still think BAH inequality is not right. Simply, pay AND allowances should be based on merit, TIG and TIS.

Servicemembers without dependents, if receiving BAH to live off base/post or off the unit, should not be forced to cohabitate with anyone while off duty simply because they do not get the same prescribed housing allowance as those who have dependents or that it should be expected. As my observation, it is quite difficult to 'perfectly match' work/tour schedules, tour lengths, etc. of single service members not to mention a huge trust issue. I have seen many single members lose their shirts from roommates in which they found untrusting, fled while lease was still during the term, had financial issues, had legal issues or posed criminal behavior, or personality clashes. When you marry or have children, its quite different and there is a much greater sense of accountability within the family. So while, yes, it may be financially advantageous in a "perfect" world to get so called roommates, there's a whole heck of alot more baggage to contend with. Personally thinking that just because one is single doesn't mean they have to 'find someone' just to enjoy the simple living standards and pleasures (not feeble, please) of those that are married. If I was a single member in the military, I would want to live by myself, come and go as I please, have guests over when I want and not when its convenient for my roommate(s) but of course, because of the implemented BAH difference, its going to be harder financially be able to live in the same standards.

So while you folks who posted that 'married or with dependents' should earn you more money, not any of you have stepped up to the plate with a constructive, good reason why. You call it whatever you wish, I call it 'being rewarded for having families', plain and simple. Dependent status is a CHOICE by the individual servicemember. Same paygrades should have the same living standards regardless of dependent status. You folks who think differently will have one helluva time in the civilian corporate sector.

quote:

Originally posted by SearchNRescue:
So while you folks who posted that 'married or with dependents' should earn you more money, not any of you have stepped up to the plate with a constructive, good reason why.

SearchNRescue,

I guess you missed my message. oh, about three posts up.

And, another thing...I really don't understand why everyone is complaining about the BAH rates...that's lot of money that you don't even get taxed on! Take it and be happy you're getting anything. If you think the location you're living in deserves more BAH, then contact your local housing office and discuss it with them. They provide rental property data every year to an outside contractor that helps to determine the upcoming year's BAH rates. Do something about it or quit complaining. Actually just quit complaining!

ok well first off, I didn't say all single CG members had roomates, but the majority of them do, at least all the ones I know. I don't see why it would be different anywhere else. That isn't even the point though. Someone else made the comment that single BAH forces people to live in the "ghetto" or something along those lines, which is complete BS.

I'm curious, do you have kids? If so, didn't the extra money you received, or your spouse recieved, help out? Why are you so against it? Are you against having a family?

I don't have a good reason why people with dependants should receive more money, other than the fact that it costs a lot more to live. Oh and BTW, same paygrades do have the same living "standards", IMO at least. Heck, for 1650 here you can get a VERY nice 1 bedroom apt. For 1850, which is what dependants rate is, you can't get as nice of a 2 of 3 bedroom place.. Therefore, it seems like single people have a better living standard. That's the way I see it.

And this is not the civilian sector, I would never expect to make more money because I had dependants as a civilian. I wouldn't expect half the benefits I receive, but thats what makes the military a good job.

quote:

I'm curious, do you have kids? If so, didn't the extra money you received, or your spouse recieved, help out? Why are you so against it? Are you against having a family?

LOL Why does it matter? You COMPLETELY missed my point. Yes, we have a kid; he's grown and on his own and strangely now, a Servicemember without dependents. So as you can see, I'm not talking out of my behind. Its not about 'helping out', its about being compensated for housing for the SERVICEMEMBER. Want a family and be able to afford it? Get promoted or advanced or wait your turn. It doesn't happen overnight. Or the spouse should contribute monetarily to the house fund. Having a family is choice and the differencial in living requirements for what each family needs should fall on the individual, not the federal government (ie. us taxpayers).

quote:

I don't have a good reason why people with dependants should receive more money, other than the fact that it costs a lot more to live.

And that should be up to the taxpayers to be accountable for? Um, no. Thats not a good reason. Again, CHOICES.

Again, bring the BAH wo/dependents rate UP to that of w/dependents rate. I'm not talking 'taking food out of your kids' mouths' folks. I'm talking equal compensation for the SERVICEMEMBER.

Patrick and Brian, where'd you go? I love it when you crunch numbers and offer insight.