quote:

Most Accurate War Movie ZULU ...

Surely you jest?

The portrayal of the major characters was way off on just about all of them.

The portrayal of Bromhead as a bit of a fop is misleading, he came from a distiguished military family

CS Bourne was one of the youngest Colour Sergeant in the army at the time, younger tha both Chard and Bromhead. He was also a small fellow, something Nigel Green is not.

Rev. Witt was not a drunk. He, along with Rev. Smith (who did not feature in the film but played an important role) and Surgeon Reynolds went up to the Oskerberg (Shiyane Hill) to look out for the approaching Zulus. He was not packed off in a buggy.

The command at the station was not decided between Chard and Bromhead on the basis of date of commission, it was decided by Capt. Spalding (Officer in command) before going to Helpmekaar, not before saying to Chard 'Which of you is senior, you or Bromhead?' Chard said 'I don't know.' Having then checked the army list Spalding said to Chard 'I see that you are senior, so you will be in charge. Of course, nothing will happen, and I shall be back again early this evening.'

Hook was portrayed in the film as a petty crook in the hospital scenes. Not a true representation of him, he purchased his discharge from the regular army in June 1880, but later served 20 years in 1st Volunteer Battalion, Royal Fusiliers.

Commissary Dalton (Dennis Folbigge) ('Pot that chap somebody!') was portrayed as a whimpish character. In reality, much of the success of the preparation for the defences was due to him, he being a long serving and experienced soldier.

The film also featured on the fact that it was a Welsh regiment. Although it was then based in Brecon in South Wales and called the 24th. Regiment of Foot (later to be the South Wales Borderers), it was formerly the Warwickshire Regiment. Many of the defenders had never been to Brecon. Of the 24th. Regt. at the defence, 49 were English, 16 Irish, 1 Scottish, 32 Welsh and 24 of other Nationalities. ('This is a Welsh regiment, although there are some foreigners in it in mind').

And, unfortunately, they miss a good moment between the two officers, This is in Chard's report to the Queen describing the action:
" In wrecking the stores in my wagon, the Zulus had brought to light a forgotten bottle of beer, and Bromhead and I drank it with mutual congratulations on having come safely out of so much danger ."

Has anyone mentioned "Paths of Glory" yet?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kogybear,

...For anybody out in Mil.com land disregard the above post. Rent the film, or get it at the local library. It's just about the best thing ever put on film concerning military units and battles! The depiction of the mission pastor Rev. Witt was off-base, but the rest of the film still raises the hairs on the back of my neck.

If in doubt about the film, then look for a copy of "Soldier of Fortune" magazine and look for the historical account of the battle at Rorke's Drift which they reprinted. {Probably from the mid-to late 1980's.} If anything the movie toned things down a little bit. Great movie-great portrayals.

As Colour Sergeant Bourne would say: "STANNDD--TOOO!!

I suggest the book "A Washing Of Spears" if you want to know the real story. It also gives a good account of the reasons for the war and its aftermath.

A good movie to be sure, but hardly the most accurate.

I'm surprised noone has mentioned "The Battle of the Bulge."

quote:

Originally posted by bounceandburst:
I'm surprised noone has mentioned "The Battle of the Bulge."

Indeed! Though I can't speak from personal experience, dad grumbled through the whole movie "It wasn't anything like that." Only thing he found fairly accurate were the artillery tree bursts. He had a hard time sitting still during that.

Why would "Path's of Glory" be considered inaccurate?

quote:

Originally posted by deddygetty1:

quote:

Originally posted by bounceandburst:
I'm surprised noone has mentioned "The Battle of the Bulge."

Indeed! Though I can't speak from personal experience, dad grumbled through the whole movie "It wasn't anything like that." Only thing he found fairly accurate were the artillery tree bursts. He had a hard time sitting still during that.

Hello.----If you want to see a film about "The Bulge" but you didn't care for the one with Robert Ryan,Robert Shaw(as a Kraut?),Henry Fonda, and worst of all Telly Chromedome Savalas, then look for a movie called "Battleground". They used actual 101st vets for the extras, and there was lots of snow!

quote:

Originally posted by tip_dog:
Why would "Path's of Glory" be considered inaccurate?

As one of the least inaccurate.

In my opinion it is more accurate than the offered "Zulu." Only since it does have to deal with pesky adherence to historical events, although the movie bears a similarity to a little known French decimation (the shooting of every tenth person in a unit) of the 10e Compagnie of 8 Battalion of the Régiment Mixte de Tirailleurs Algériens (Mixed Algerian Rifle Regiment.) During the retreat at the beginning of the war these French-African soldiers refused an order to attack. They were shot on the 15th of December 1914 near Zillebeeke in Flanders.

quote:

Originally posted by kogybear:

quote:

Originally posted by tip_dog:
Why would "Path's of Glory" be considered inaccurate?

As one of the least inaccurate.

In my opinion it is more accurate than the offered "Zulu." Only since it does have to deal with pesky adherence to historical events, although the movie bears a similarity to a little known French decimation (the shooting of every tenth person in a unit) of the 10e Compagnie of 8 Battalion of the Régiment Mixte de Tirailleurs Algériens (Mixed Algerian Rifle Regiment.) During the retreat at the beginning of the war these French-African soldiers refused an order to attack. They were shot on the 15th of December 1914 near Zillebeeke in Flanders.

Dear Member,

That is one item I like about Military.Com. You can learn info that is unknown to yourself. I always thought that "Paths of Glory" was based on a 1916 incident in the French Army. Again, thanks for the insight.

Jack E. Hammond

Actually, "Paths of Glory" is based more on the general treatment of the poilu in the French army, than any one specific incident.

For more - see the following link:
http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/thegreatwar/arti...earch/frencharmy.htm

Don't be too quick to diss Kelly's Heroes. As entertainment it would be hard to beat. The cast is superb even the bit players are magnificent.

For years I thought the plot--stealing Nazi gold--simply too fantastic to contemplate. (That's why they say fiction calls for the willing suspension of disbelief.)

HOld on though. There is a solid kernel of truth underlying the story. The German Treasury (literaly their Ft. Knox) was moved from Berlin in the closing days of the war. After many twists and turns it would up in the mountains of Bavaria and the trail ends. We are talking about a literal train load of gold and currency.

When Goering's stash was discovered also in the caverns of Bavaria, the allies assumed that this was the sum total of loot to be found. there was never an organized search because no one knew there was anything to search for.

In the months after VE Day several of the gold train's escorts decided that they would liberate some of its wealth for their own use. They were discovered by soldiers in the occupation army who in turn appropriated it for themselves.

As the story goes these Americans made off with what amounted to several hundred million dollars in dollars and gold.

the worst war movie of all time " Battle of the Bugle...

Anachronisms: The German Tiger tanks and American Sherman tanks were actually American tanks from the Korean War era. Most Sherman tanks were scrapped after the war, and the remaining Tiger tanks are in museums.


Errors in geography: The Battle of the Bulge was fought in the densely-wooded Ardennes Forest of Belgium, not in a semi-arid environment.

Factual errors: The opening narration states that "Montgomery's 8th Army was in the north..." Montgomery did command the British forces in NW Europe, but the 8th Army, formerly commanded by him, was in Italy.

Continuity: Kiley flying in an airplane takes a picture of Hessler traveling on the ground in a staff car. The picture shown later was obviously taken from ground level.

Continuity: As a German tank overruns an American blockade, two soldiers place plastic explosives on the tank which disappear and reappear in subsequent shots.

Audio/visual unsynchronized: Robert Ryan says to an aide, "Get me Blue Code, 301" Then we hear what is supposed to be the aide saying it, but it's a dub of Ryan's exact words "301" with Ryan's voice.

Anachronisms: The train carrying the badly needed big guns is pulled by a steam engine. But the shots filmed ahead of the hurtling engine show the cables of an electrified system.

Continuity: The reason the Americans cannot receive air support is because of poor weather. When the artillery is brought in on a train, the sky is perfectly clear.

Revealing mistakes: When Lt. Weaver and Sgt. Duquesne are spotted (as they try to hide from a German halftrack), a German soldier says, "Es kam von da oben!" meaning "It (a sound) came from up there!" This line is repeated throughout the movie by several German soldiers, but without any relevancy to it's meaning, just to sound as if the Germans were really Germans.

Continuity: When Major Wolenski knocks out a Tiger tank in the first battle scene, Colonel Hessler calls it over the radio, referring to it as "Tank 104". But, when the tank limps off the road, the ID number painted on the back of the turret is "01".

Errors in geography: Tank and battle field sequence filming occurred at the US Army Yakima firing range along the east slope of the Cascade Range in Washington State. This region is roughly 2,500 to 3,500 ft. above sea level with an arid high desert climate. Clearly, this is out of place when compared to the Ardennes Forest region.

Continuity: When the German spearhead commences its attack, the footage is flipped - the machinegun in the hull of the tanks appears to be on the right-hand side of the hull. This is the driver's side of the tank. The footage changes regularly in this perspective.

Continuity: The actual m47s portraying the German tanks have the hull machinegun on the left side, however the models for special effects shots have the hull machinegun on the right.

Continuity: When the Fallschirmjaegers first jump out of the plane, there is one paratrooper with a white parachute, the rest are black. When they reach the ground, all of the parachutes are white.

Continuity: When the Germans are exiting the transport plane, the close up shots of the plane shows it is a Junkers Ju-52. In the wide shots it shows a Douglas C-47.

Continuity: When Col. Hessler asks headquarters for permission to assault Ambeleve, he is told he has until 0400 hours, and it appears to be the late afternoon. However, when the bombardment starts, it is obvious that the sun is already rising, and by the time the armor assault starts it is daylight.

Factual errors: All of the American vehicles in the movie use a German Red-Green-Brown camouflage color scheme. In WWII, all of the American equipment was a dark green color. In one scene we can even see a Bazooka with a camouflage paint scheme.

Errors in geography: There are no mountains in the Ardennes as seen in the movie.

Factual errors: When Colonel Hessler is at a conference with his Panzer officers, he points out with his finger on a map the place of the Our River, which they should cross. He is actually pointing near the area of Brussels, some 100 miles west of the real Our River. The same thing happens when General Grey asks his officer the location of the German spearhead.

Crew or equipment visible: In several exterior shots, you can clearly see the movie lights reflected in the soldiers' helmets.


Continuity: In the final shot of the movie as the credits start to roll, where the camera shot is apparently pulling away and up from the smoking, abandoned German tanks, the film is actually running in reverse. The smoke is going backwards into the ground and smoking tanks.

Anachronisms: Early in the movie, Henry Fonda's character visits the "up front" front. In one scene, there is a soldier in a bunk reading a folded magazine, and the viewing audience can see the page he is not reading. The magazine is the April 1964 issue of Playboy and the page he has opened is the beginning of a pictorial on Playmate Donna Michelle.

Continuity: When Guffy, is saying goodbye to his business partner, his crash helmet disappears and reappears between shots.

Errors in geography: When the train (carrying the guns) is nearing the first bridge, you can see several men (perhaps railway workers) standing along the side. They are wearing shirts and cowboy-like hats which indicates that it's very hot. The Battle of the bulge took place during the very cold winter of 1944.

Revealing mistakes: When Hessler's tanks are bombing Amlève, you can see several houses being hit. When these houses explode, you can see that they are made of steel plates. There are no bricks, stones or pieces of concrete flying around.

Crew or equipment visible: When the last vehicles get over the bridge (moments before the cover of the German soldiers gets blown), the shadow of a camera can be seen on the side of the last truck as it passes by.

Continuity: The position of the door of Hessler’s command caravan does not match between interior and exterior shots.

Errors in geography: When the Sergeant and the Lieutenant get pointed in the wrong direction, you can see the road-sign pointing to Ambleve (left), and to Malmedy (right). Since the sign is supposed to be twisted, this means that they came from the east. Being east at 42 km from Malmedy, and 36 km from Ambleve, they would have been several (10-15) kilometers in Germany.

I rest my case.

Kelly's Heroes on the other hand:
The film uses authentic M4 Sherman tanks, while most other contemporary war film employed too-modern M47/M48 tanks. Such technical details as machine guns and entrenching tools are also remarkably accurate. The three Tiger I Tanks used in the film were actually adapted ex-Soviet Army T-34 tanks, converted in great detail by specialists of the Yugoslav army for the movie The Battle of Neretva.

Letter from Iwo Jima and its sister movie that stole the title of a good book.

Marines begging for their lives and Japanese as innocent victims? How about this is pure propagandistic trash against the Marine Corps.

quote:

Originally posted by Thrust_0311:
Letter from Iwo Jima and its sister movie that stole the title of a good book.

Marines begging for their lives and Japanese as innocent victims? How about this is pure propagandistic trash against the Marine Corps.

Why...so no Marines ever begged for theirs lives? I would find that hard to believe.

What about Stalag 13......again we're talking hollywood but I just can't see POW's having a Christmas dance complete with a record player.....

quote:

Originally posted by staynsouth:
What about Stalag 13......again we're talking hollywood but I just can't see POW's having a Christmas dance complete with a record player.....

Dunno about that particular film but they did have gramophones at many PoW camps, indeed they form part of some of the more inventive escape plans. Thick old records in particular were useful for smuggling in things like escape maps and ID blanks via Red Cross packages.

Depending on my mood, I'll nit-pick a movie or just watch it for the entertainment. PzGen, you have Battle of the Bulge very well covered. I'll print your list out and follow along the next time it's on.

How about Operation Petticoat?

(runs out of the room)

quote:

states that "Montgomery's 8th Army was in the north..." Montgomery did command the British forces in NW Europe, but the 8th Army, formerly commanded by him, was in Italy.

Good catch.

This may not be a war movie, but "Air Force One" was a joke. The Boeing 747 was equipped with these Hollywood options:
+Bullet-proof walls
+Rear Ramp
+Escape Pod, also in the rear.

As a comparison, the E-4 Airborne Command Post in "Patriot Games" was true to the real thing in the interior shots.

The E-4 was developed in the early 1970's before the Boeing 747 version of the Air Force One. They tried to make the walls sound proof in order that a lowly airman would not listen in on the Joint Chiefs and The Prez planning to launch a nuclear strike. The sound proofing would have made the a/c overweight. SO explain how you make one bullet-proof?

Steve

Kevlar is a pretty good insulator (sound proofing) and is bullet resistant.

Anzio was pretty crappy.