I Have been hearing some negative things about going into the mos of 25b,that its a waste of time,no good cilivian jobs,soon will be obsolete in Guard.Can anyone who is in that mos give me some honest advice? If not 25b then what is a good computer mos for National guard.I'm a rookie when it comes to computers and want to learn them.Thanks

25u and 25n. I am 25b I actually did automation support(helpdesk) during my 1st deployment in Iraq. I am preping for my 2nd deployment, wont have much use for me this deployment,the military network is a nation-wide network in Iraq and that is run by civilian contractors, brigades and battalions wont have any control over their systems they just fall on to already existing equipment. However If we ever have another new conflict they will need 25b

quote:

Originally posted by 16155078:
I Have been hearing some negative things about going into the mos of 25b,that its a waste of time,no good cilivian jobs,soon will be obsolete in Guard.Can anyone who is in that mos give me some honest advice? If not 25b then what is a good computer mos for National guard.I'm a rookie when it comes to computers and want to learn them.Thanks

If you are willing to give up six years just to get low-level computer training to parlay into a civilian gig, go ahead. Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't do it.

I must say that the vast majority of successful IT professional in the civilian world haven't served a day in the military.

The Army systems are several steps behind civilian systems.

I don't know how many times I found myself looking at IT jobs on Monster.com and comparing the requirements with my skillset and saying to myself, "Damn, I have a lot of work to do."

I am ETS'ing soon. I like my chances...not just because of the experience in the Army, but because I went the extra mile to keep up with civilian trends by pursuing and acquiring IT certifications and practicing on my test lab.

The Army training was a joke considering that I had acquired an IT degree before joining the Army.

Bottom line: Civilian employers look for the following:

1. Experience in relevant technologies.

2. Industry certifications in the field in which you are looking for work. For example, if you are looking for work as a network engineer, then you had better have at least a CCNP.

3. A degree helps, but not required.

4. If you want to work in Defense, a security clearance is needed. SECRET is okay. But TOP SECRET gets you a job provided you have items 1-3 listed above.

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Originally posted by Property_of_Sam:
I like my chances...not just because of the experience in the Army, but because I went the extra mile to keep up with civilian trends by pursuing and acquiring IT certifications and practicing on my test lab.

Property of Sam made some excellent points, and I especially like the one he made above. The Army will give you some training, but it is up to YOU to go get the relevant knowledge and training for the equipment that is used in the civilian sector. Instead of playing XBOX all weekend while locked in your barracks room, take advantage of the educational benefits the Army gives you and take some classes and go get some training.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: pfont77,

The people saying 25B is "not worth it" are the ones either stuck in a Bde/BN S6 shop somewhere, or didn't work their own assignments and just went "wherever". Alot of 25B work is self taught, and the Army is no where CLOSE to "several steps behind" the civilian sector. We're right up with it, all documentation / best practices / security guidelines are brought in from the civilian sector and DISA. Hell 99% of the equipment is COTS and expensive as hell.

What your most likely refering to as "out of date" equipment are PM (Program Managed) boxes like SAMS, ULLS-G, CTASC-II, ABCS, BCS3, FBCB2, and LCMS (there are others) these systems perform specific functions and must do so in a completely predictable and stable maner. Meaning any changes for these systems must go through 6 months to a year of testing before their authorized and applied (many systems took 18+ months to move from 2000 to XP). But as for the Office Automation systems (generic XP box's attached to the NIPRnet) their the same stuff business use. Heck most OA systems are life cycled every 3 years, either going down a Tier or being turned in to DRMO, where as civilian business will use equipment till they fall apart to save costs.

I've said this a million times to people, if YOU want to succeed in the world YOU have to work for it, no ones just gonna hand you "training" and suddenly your an "expert". 25B is probably the most "civilian" like MOS in the Army, all the cool assignments are interview positions, and often you need to establish a reputation as a hard worker who has initiative to solve problems and be self learning in order to be offered the better positions.

I will have to disagree, a good analogy of the difference between Army IT and Civilian IT is the same as a softball player and a baby seal hunter...both use a bat, but they do not employ it in the same manner nor do they use the same techniques.

Right, so you think Army IT is a bunch of guys with no clue running around doing whatever? I mean its not like we actually employ contractors from various agencies to do everything. And not like those contractors are hired using the exact credentials corporate America uses. And in actuality its not "Army IT" its "DoD IT" as all regulation / guidelines come from the Defense Information Security Agency (DISA).

What your referring to are the tactical networks that are thrown together by a Bde 6 shop somewhere. Those are unaccredited networks for the sole purpose of providing Email/NIPR acess to a unit while its out in the field. Occasionally you get the tactical SIPR/RIPR networks but those have MUCH higher security requirements.

Instead of bashing something aimlessly why don't you provide recent (as in the last one to two years) examples on how crude and (behind the times) the "Army IT" is?

You fail to grasp the point of my contention which is not unusual from Joe Rockhead. I did not say that Army IT clueless, just that thier methodology is not industry standard. If you take current industry best practices like ITIL and try to match it up with Army IT you will fail becuase its just doesnt correlate. Having been a military contractor before I can tell you that its not about quality or what is best, its all about providing only what the contract specifies and nothing more. BTW the DOD guidelines are codified in DITSCAP if you really want to see how wrong your comparison is, but what do I know ? YMMV I could be a troll or I could work in IT for one of the worlds largest telecommunications companies.. whats in your wallet ?

ITIL is a requirement to work in a contract position for DoD in many countries. And of COURSE its about doing only whats within the contract, thats what contractors do. They do that more to avoid exposure to any Army political BS then to be richards. And I know exactly what your saying, your being conceited and making huge sweeping generalizations. Your basic point was that the military's not smart enough to "properly" do "IT" and therefor no one should use that as a stepping stone to an IT career.

You can stand there and make all the judgments you want, I'm being hired into a position right now, and yes my military IT experience helped significantly in landing this job.

No your mistake is you're still brain locked. If you re read my posts I have not stated anywhere "Your basic point was that the military's not smart enough to "properly" do "IT" and therefor no one should use that as a stepping stone to an IT career.
"

What I said and alluded to which you obvoiously cannot grasp is that the Army uses the same equipment that the civilian market does, but with different proceedures and methodologies.

As anyone who has worked in Army IT knows contractors do most of the work and you are not allowed to do most things.

I've known quite a few people both on active duty and the civilian world who have worked in DoD IT Navy IT1's, Marine 2821's and more Army MOS's than you can shake a stick at. The ones who most readily align with the civilian work are Marine Corps 2821's

I encountered a situation wheere a contractor that gets paid 100k can't fix a simple problem, yet an E-4 can just by looking at the problem. Without going into any details because the system is sensative, E-mails were going between contractor site admins, BN S-6 NCO and Commanders. An Army E-4 was called in from his hooch and asked if he can come up with a solution. The Soldier came up with an idea and gave guidance to the contractors to impletment the solution to their problem. The Soldier didn't receive a medal or recognition. He simply was just doing his job and being part of his team.

Just food for thought.