Hey there!

Summary:
I am arranging to go to my next stage of MEPS for the AF (took the ASVAB and did exceptional, just gotta pass the physical and enlist into DEP). I was reading online about advanced promotion. I only have 18 college credits, seems I fall two credits short of E-2. However, I read that if you enlist for 6 years you get an auto bump to E-3 after Tech School.

Actual question (in case you just want to answer it):
Are their any drawbacks to enlisting for six years to get the auto advancement? Will E-3 be the highest rank I'll be able to obtain for the six year enlistment? Does anyone recommend or not recommend this? I plan on talking to my recruiter about it, and he seems like a pretty straight-forward guy, but between internet articles and him, you guys are all I got for advice in the military, so I just want your take if thats alright. Also, should it be in my final enlistment contract?

Thanks so much for any help!
- Austin

It's completion of Tech school OR 20 weeks, whatever comes first.

Depends, do you want to be in for 6 years and not 4? If you get the job you want and it's fun and you enjoy it, why not? Going in for 6 years instead of 4 and getting A1C gets you about 6 months quicker to SrA. But after that, it's about all even. Highest rank? No, that's based on how well you do really + time in your rank.

Personally, I did this (now with my second round of going through this stuff (long story that I've explained before)) I will be going for the 6 year again.

It will be in your contract usually the last one you sign before you leave. That's how mine was done. Went to MEPS on that Tuesday, finished up breifings and whatnot, then had the final contract all ready to go, went through it, had what was promised and signed and off I went.

It may not be in your contract now, but if you want it, make sure before you sign your final one, it is in there.

I signed up for 4, a lot of people sign up for 6, I'd say well over half of my BMT flight signed up for 6.

I signed up for 4 because 2 more years is a long time if you end up not enjoying the military, or not enjoying your job. If you enlist for 4 you can retrain sooner and are also eligible for re-enlistment bonuses sooner, if one is offered for your career field.

You will at least make E-4 (Senior Airman) during your first enlistment, and possibly Staff Sergeant depending on how well you score on the tests and how good your EPRs are (Yearly evaluations by your supervisor).

If you are 100% sure you want to be in for an extra two years, and an extra 2 years at the job you get, then you may as well sign up for 6. But like I said that's two more years without a chance to retrain or get a re-enlistment bonus.

I came in as an Airman (E-2) because of college credits and am now outranked by the guys that just wrote down a 6 instead of a 4, but I'll be A1C next month. Also you can shoot for Below The Zone, which is an advanced promotion to SrA (6 Months early) if you are working really hard to be a good Airman (lot's of volunteer work, self-improvement like college classes and expert at your job) which would almost even you up with a 6-year person.

After SrA though it's all about how well you know your job and the military, because you take a test for SSgt - MSgt and really good test scores can make-up for a shorter time in grade or time in rank.

Well i signed up for 6 and put on E-3 after graduation from Tech School. Since thats the case I put on E-4 28 months after I got promoted to E-3 since 28 months TIG (time in grade) will occur before 36 months TIS (time in service) AND 20 months time in grade. So a little earlier than the 4 year dealers.

Ok slow down killer...few things here.

Enlisting for 6 years entitles you to A1C (E-3) after 20 weeks or tech school graduation. You DOR (Date of Rank) will be backdated to the day you completed basic training but your not entitled to backpay during those dates.

Being granted A1C quicker entitles you to an earlier BTZ (Below the zone, putting on e-4 6 months earlier) date. Currently I'm shooting for BTZ then Staff 6 month later.

quote:

Originally posted by BlackMagix:
Ok slow down killer...few things here.

Enlisting for 6 years entitles you to A1C (E-3) after 20 weeks or tech school graduation. You DOR (Date of Rank) will be backdated to the day you completed basic training but your not entitled to backpay during those dates.

Being granted A1C quicker entitles you to an earlier BTZ (Below the zone, putting on e-4 6 months earlier) date. Currently I'm shooting for BTZ then Staff 6 month later.

HOLY CRAP!!! He's back! Anyways, magix, you have to consider TIG+TIS for SSgt. Even if you make BTZ and you study your pants off and make Staff (you're TIG+TIS is held against you) you will have a long wait before you get to put it on, you will have a very long line number.

haha, alright, mind if I simplify this for you? Looking big picture, the two extra years is simply that, two extra years. The rank and money difference is nearly null. (It may seem big during tech school, but honestly, nobody cares and it isn't a big pay difference.) Both 4 year and 6 year enlistees promote at very close to the same rate. The 6 year might beat the 4 year by a few months if all else is equal. The biggest difference honestly is the two year commitment. The rest are little AND temporary issues.

In all honesty there are more advantages to a 4 year enlistee in my opinion. You can switch jobs sooner if you choose (depending on the job) and if your job has a re-enlistment bonus you can get more money (do the math long term) OR you can simply get out two year earlier to either become a civilian again or to go ROTC if you so choose. All up to you. PLEASE DONT LET THE EXTRA QUICK RANK GET IN YOUR MIND. If they hand it out like that, it obviously isnt a huge issue. If you like it that much though, go for it.

im 19 and signed up for 4 but since i have college i get e-2 and e-3 is only 6 months and tech school is like 5 so i only have to wait a few weeks more then the ppl who signed up for 6

Some addition food for thought for a few AFSCs.

Initial Enlistment Bonuses: 1 Oct 07 - 30 Sep 08

AFSC----------------------------6 Year Enlistee-------4 Year Enlistee
Pararescue----------------------$13,000---------------$6,000
Combat Control------------------$13,000---------------$6,000
SERE----------------------------$10,000---------------$6,000
TACP-----------------------------$6,000---------------$4,000
EOD-----------------------------$10,000---------------$6,000
Linguist/Airborne Linguist------$12,000---------------$3,000

quote:

Ref AFI 36-2502 Airman Promotion Program:

2.1.2. Individuals initially enlisting for a period of six years are promoted from AB or Amn to A1C upon completion of either technical training; the indoctrination course (Combat Controller (CCT) (1C2X1) and Pararescue (PJ) (1T2X1) only); or 20 weeks of technical training (start date of the 20 week period is the date of Basic Military Training (BMT) completion), whichever occurs first. The DOR for A1C is then adjusted to the date completed Basic Military Training (BMT) without back pay and allowances.


2.2. SrA Promotions (see Table 1.3.):
2.2.1. Airmen are promoted (fully qualified) to SrA upon meeting minimum requirements in Table 2.1., recommended by the commander in writing, and have: (EXCEPTION: CCT and PJ six year enlistees are to be promoted to SrA upon reaching 24 months TIS provided they have obtained a 3-skill level and commander concurs. DOR and effective date is the date the airman reaches 24 months TIS and attains a 3-skill level, whichever occurs latest. These individuals are ineligible for SrA BTZ consideration.)
2.2.1.1. 36 months TIS and 20 months TIG, or
2.2.1.2. 28 months TIG, whichever occurs first.

PJ Indoc is ten weeks and completeing all required training for award of AFSC results in 3-level. Consequntly completing Pararescue School or CCT training results in promotion to SrA for the six year enlistee.

quote:

Originally posted by J0e2008:
im 19 and signed up for 4 but since i have college i get e-2 and e-3 is only 6 months and tech school is like 5 so i only have to wait a few weeks more then the ppl who signed up for 6

FYI: If you understand reenlistment eligibility and SRB calculations the six year enlistment results in a higher base pay for the multiplier which results in a larger SRB payout. If you understand OTS and other commissioning programs the six year enlistment causes no restrictions or limitations on selection and qualification eligibility or in other words if commission is the motivation the length of entry enlistment has no impact unless separation from active duty to go to school full time is desired.

quote:

Originally posted by maverick00084:
In all honesty there are more advantages to a 4 year enlistee in my opinion. You can switch jobs sooner if you choose (depending on the job) and if your job has a re-enlistment bonus you can get more money (do the math long term) OR you can simply get out two year earlier to either become a civilian again or to go ROTC if you so choose.

If your job has a reenlistment bonus it is monthly base pay multiplied by years and fraction of years of the additional obligated service multiplied by the SRB multiple. Monthly pay is 2-years or less, Over 2 years, over 3 years, and over 4 years, plus there are the Cost of Living base pay increases to consider (some years are more than others). Consequently pay based on pay grade and TIS can make a difference. By the way, going to ROTC and completing ROTC with appointment to commission lack guarantees.

Consider also the enlisted PJ gets every month (2007 Paychart) so there is significant putting money in the bank to go to school potential in addition to Montgomery GI Bill:

HALO Pay------------$225.00 (regardless of pay grade)
Combat Diver Pay----$150.00 (regardless of pay grade)
Special Duty Pay----$225.00 (typically has been SDP-3 or SDP-4----$300.00)
At least $610.00 extra month above base pay.

Plus the PJ is typically on aircrew status and that adds in about $150 per month to the PJ E-1/E-2/E-3. If you consider the PJs spend quite a few months in a combat tax exclusion zone and this brings with it Imminent danger/Hostile Fire Pay of $225.00 per month, if it money you want than some jobs result in more money per month than others. However, those who try to become a PJ for the money typically don’t last more than a day or two at indoc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: johca,

quote:

Originally posted by A1CKBurrow:

quote:

Originally posted by BlackMagix:
Ok slow down killer...few things here.

Enlisting for 6 years entitles you to A1C (E-3) after 20 weeks or tech school graduation. You DOR (Date of Rank) will be backdated to the day you completed basic training but your not entitled to backpay during those dates.

Being granted A1C quicker entitles you to an earlier BTZ (Below the zone, putting on e-4 6 months earlier) date. Currently I'm shooting for BTZ then Staff 6 month later.

HOLY CRAP!!! He's back! Anyways, magix, you have to consider TIG+TIS for SSgt. Even if you make BTZ and you study your pants off and make Staff (you're TIG+TIS is held against you) you will have a long wait before you get to put it on, you will have a very long line number.

Thanks for noticing...I never said my goal was attainable, but I'm still shooting for it

quote:

Originally posted by BlackMagix:

quote:

Originally posted by A1CKBurrow:

quote:

Originally posted by BlackMagix:
Ok slow down killer...few things here.

Enlisting for 6 years entitles you to A1C (E-3) after 20 weeks or tech school graduation. You DOR (Date of Rank) will be backdated to the day you completed basic training but your not entitled to backpay during those dates.

Being granted A1C quicker entitles you to an earlier BTZ (Below the zone, putting on e-4 6 months earlier) date. Currently I'm shooting for BTZ then Staff 6 month later.

HOLY CRAP!!! He's back! Anyways, magix, you have to consider TIG+TIS for SSgt. Even if you make BTZ and you study your pants off and make Staff (you're TIG+TIS is held against you) you will have a long wait before you get to put it on, you will have a very long line number.

Thanks for noticing...I never said my goal was attainable, but I'm still shooting for it

I admire your determination, but you have to consider mathematics. I knew a co worker who put on E-4 last december, she then tested for staff in the next test cycle and made it the first time around. But she won't even see that fourth stripe until August of 2008. The quicker you pass the test for staff, the longer you have to wait with your line number.

There is also the demographics of the AFSC. The more numbers testing the lower the cutoff test score needed to get promoted in the AFSC. Consequently a good test taker in certain AFSCs that is able to get SKT and PFE scores in the mid seventies or better has an advantage in those AFSC of getting promoted first time eligible.

The line numbers however are determined by Time-in-grade/Time and service so the more TIG and TIS the lower the line number for promotion.

The promote percentage on any given cycle can also cause a problem.

Considering current force reductions getting SSgt doesn’t guarantee the CJR either and in this regard there is no difference between an unemployed SrA or SSgt that found there was no CJR available for them.

The reproachful perspective of this thread is its about I'm going to get promoted and not about how competent I will do my job or how willing I'm going to be there to do my job. I’m somewhat weary of such desperate motivation for rank when the following also appears in the profile “My long term goal in the air force is Colonel and commander. I want to be able to learn and hone the skills required to lead.” The concern caused is not the goal but the possible ends justifying the means of attaining it.

BTW it is more probable once getting a commission to get promoted to Colonel than it is to make MSgt in the enlisted ranks. So getting the promotion is the most important element of serving a military obligation then I suggest getting a commission, the promotions are a bit more guaranteed in those ranks and grades.

Whether enlisting for 2 years (limited quota and AFSC options), 4-years or 6-years the actual obligation to military service is eight (8) years. The remaining years after serving the active duty obligation is in the inactive reserve component of the Air Force.

quote:

AFI 36-2002:

Military Service Obligation. Title 10, United States Code, Section 651, as implemented by
Department of Defense Instruction 1304.25, Fulfilling the Military Service Obligation (MSO), directs that every person, on initial entry into the United States Air Force, shall serve a total of eight years to be fulfilled in accordance with this Instruction. This obligation shall be initiated from the date of enlistment, appointment or induction for all persons entering the Air Force after 1 June 1984. Policy and procedures for members separated from active duty prior to completion of eight years of service are in AFI 36-3208, Administrative Separation of Airmen.

Doesn't mean much until the involuntary call-up to active duty authorization is implemented by the President or Secretary of Defense.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: johca,

The CJR is now automatic

quote:

Originally posted by Whyareyoumarchingson:
The CJR is now automatic

Yes it is automatic a first term enlisted member seeking to reenlist either gets a job reservation or doesn't. Reenlistment eligibility is not a certainty or a guaranteed entitlement. The CJR is only highly probable in any given AFSC as long as a certain percentage of first term airmen in any given AFSC voluntarily decide not to seek reenlistment at the end of their initial entry enlistment.

Requesting Career Job Reservation may be an automatic process, but getting a career job reservation is not guaranteed. The purpose of the CJR program is to match the first term airman desiring to reenlist against a career job requirement. There are more first term manpower duty positions than funded and authorized second term and career manpower duty positions. The enlisted manpower structure is designed by purpose to separate a significant percentage at the end of the first enlistment. High Year of Tenure (HYT) forces out other percentages after the second and third enlistment.

Concurrent with getting a CJR is the Selective Reenlistment Program which in addition to requiring commanders recommendation of the member’s fitness to reenlist also establishes a few other quality indicator standards pertinent to low EPR ratings, an Unfavorable Information File (UIF)s, Control rosters, not meeting weight and fitness program standards, and other medical disqualifications.

quote:

Originally posted by johca:

quote:

Originally posted by Whyareyoumarchingson:
The CJR is now automatic

Yes it is automatic a first term enlisted member seeking to reenlist either gets a job reservation or doesn't. Reenlistment eligibility is not a certainty or a guaranteed entitlement. The CJR is only highly probable in any given AFSC as long as a certain percentage of first term airmen in any given AFSC voluntarily decide not to seek reenlistment at the end of their initial entry enlistment.

Requesting Career Job Reservation may be an automatic process, but getting a career job reservation is not guaranteed. The purpose of the CJR program is to match the first term airman desiring to reenlist against a career job requirement. There are more first term manpower duty positions than funded and authorized second term and career manpower duty positions. The enlisted manpower structure is designed by purpose to separate a significant percentage at the end of the first enlistment. High Year of Tenure (HYT) forces out other percentages after the second and third enlistment.

Concurrent with getting a CJR is the Selective Reenlistment Program which in addition to requiring commanders recommendation of the member’s fitness to reenlist also establishes a few other quality indicator standards pertinent to low EPR ratings, an Unfavorable Information File (UIF)s, Control rosters, not meeting weight and fitness program standards, and other medical disqualifications.

No I mean they recently guaranteed CJR's

Stick with the four year enlistment. I've seen so many airmen do the six year enlistment and wish they had signed up for four. Some just don't like the military and are stuck for an additional two years. Some like the Air Force, but have to wait longer to crosstrain into another AFSC. There are also incentives to staying in after your first enlistment that you don't have the opportunity to take advantage off until a certain window in your initial enlistment depending on if you're a four year or six year enlistee. One example is the first term airmen base of preference program. The Air Force will give you your base of preference in exchange for your reenlisting. Money shouldn't even be a consideration to enlist for six since the difference is very small and you'll have your first stripe after six months anyway. Being an A1C doesn't give you any authority over an Amn or AB. You're in the same boat as they are when you get to your first duty station. Those stripes for the extra two years don't make you any smarter than the kids who signed up for four and went through the same tech school.

Do what's best for you, but I'd recommend against the six year enlistment.