I am leaving soon. And I was reading about the ropes in tech school. Are these generally respected people or does everyone kind of hate them. And for those of you who were or are ropes(especially black or the stop light ropes) how hard was it to become one and has it benefited you or helped you stay on track while in tech school.
I ask because I've always assumed leadership roles and tried to do extra stuff to keep myself occupied. I want to make the best out of my experience in tech school and I figure taking up things like honor guard or leadership positions would help me stay grounded and on track with school. Thank you very much.
Ropes are a necessary evil. I was a yellow rope in tech school--at that time yellow rope was a dorm chief--my own two-story, WW II-vintage dormitory with approximately 80 people in it. At that time, it wasn't a huge drain on time, can't say what it would be like now.
This is my thought, and anybody who has more current experience can inform me if I'm off-target: you're going to be in ATC training. It's one of the more difficult and time-consuming schools that the AF has. People's lives are going to depend on how you move 'em around, both in the air and on the ground.
I'd recommend against taking on anything that could possibly take time away from your training duties.
Originally posted by wgraham969: Ropes are a necessary evil. I was a yellow rope in tech school--at that time yellow rope was a dorm chief--my own two-story, WW II-vintage dormitory with approximately 80 people in it. At that time, it wasn't a huge drain on time, can't say what it would be like now.
This is my thought, and anybody who has more current experience can inform me if I'm off-target: you're going to be in ATC training. It's one of the more difficult and time-consuming schools that the AF has. People's lives are going to depend on how you move 'em around, both in the air and on the ground.
I'd recommend against taking on anything that could possibly take time away from your training duties.
Anybody else want to weigh in???
Ok, since you asked, I'll weigh in.
I went to ATC school at Keesler, though it was a long time ago. I don't think it's any more demanding than a dozen other tech schools. ATC is kinda funny though. Either you have it, or you don't. I'm sure that that the DLI school(s) at Monterey (and plenty others) would say the same thing.
As far as the rope thing goes, I would recommend against it. Tech school should consume 100% of your attention, regardless of what kind of school it is. Your ONLY focus should be on graduating.
BTW, I did ATC for 4 years in the Air Force and was hired by the FAA within 6 months. At the FAA Academy in OKC the failure rate between those with experience and those without were about equal.
Concentrate on TODAY. Any leadership roles in tech school as a rope will have slim to none impact on the next 20 years of your life.
who knows you might get real ate up and want to take as much responsibility as you can, and maybe look "cool" with your rope. Good on you if you do, so that some other bum dosnt get ahold of one of those and lets it go to his/her head. Kinda sucks in a way since everyone is pretty much the same rank but they throw the ropes in the midst and shake things up
I had a rope in tech. After 3 months of tech school I decided it was for me and started learning all I could. Once I hit A1C (which was the requirement in my squadron) I applied was accepted and noticed a few things.
1) If your a guy, you just caught a lot of women's attention. Every rope had a girl, didn't have my long enough to care/want one. This is shockingly true. 2) Everyone now thinks your a stuck up a hole. When in fact your keeping the MTL's from them. Pull 341's when you think nessiscary but let things slide from time to time. You'll make the Airman pissed at you but keep the MTL's off their back. If they keep pushing, your the middle man and can choose to take it a step higher or drop it. 3) There's a lot of head strong ropes. This relates to #2. I was one of the few ropes at my squadron that did their job well. I called cadance, didn't pull a single bad 341 and several expliary ones and tried to boost squadron morale by not having someone get pissed at me but rather understand my point and what I was trying to say. Now don't get me wrong, if someone got out of hand, I'd put them back into their place or correct them in a heartbeat, but it's not worth bringing it towards an NCO every time an airman misses a salute or is walking without marching in uniform. Correct them, let them go and people will be happier.
Look for the good instead of the bad and others will start doing the same. Don't be looking for bad reasons to pull 341's, instead look for the airmen that shine the most and compliment and reward them by pulling a positive one from them and following through with it. I pulled several for outstanding uniforms, alerting the bay to linen exchange day every week, making sure the bay was accounted for when I wasn't there. My bay was one of the best in the squadron because when I made corrections, I didn't make a mountain out of a mole hill. I'd recommend you do the same. Be strong, confidante yet considerate and understanding and you'll do fine.
I was a Red Rope in tech school. I actually enjoyed the experience and I feel like it helped me focus more on tech school. While my teammates were out on the town acting crazy, I was busy taking care of responsiblities at the dorm.
As a rope you are a target for people. Whether it be NCO's or Airman looking to make you look bad, eyes are always on you. So keep that in mind.
I was volun-told to be a rope! So I just made the decision to try to excel at it.
Since my tech school was DLI, I had to deal with ropes for a year and a half. The overwhelming majority had a chip on their shoulder or wanted some extra uniform bling to stand out and weren't interested in doing their "ropely" duties. There weren't many who used their position to help airmen (there were some, but again not many), most were the MTLs' personal yes-men. Also, when I was there there was a huge shakedown with a lot of the ropes. Several had been busted (individually) for inappropriate relationships with MTLs, hanging out together at bars off-duty and whatnot. There was also a huge incident when it was discovered that the senior red-rope had gotten a hold of the dorm key-card maker and printed out universal room keys for several of the other ropes. There were lots of rumors about what they were using the keys for: accessing female dorms, sabotaging rooms prior to inspection, theft, you name it. Needless to say, I didn't hold the rope program in the highest regard.
My experience was unique, mainly because it was at DLI, and also because a lot of these problems stemmed from a breakdown in unit command rather than problems with the rope program itself. If it's something you want to do, then go for it, but be ready to accept all of the duties that go with it...not just the advantages.
d8200 - When were you at DLI? I'm assuming you had a CAT IV. Arabic or Korean? I was there 97-98, Russian.
Anywho.....I went through similar crap with ropes at DLI. I reclassed at Goodfellow and was sent to Ft Leonard Wood for a different tech school. I had already been in for just over 2 years and was about to pin on SrA. They automatically made me a red rope. It wasn't so bad. The worst part was that the airmen looked like they stored their uniforms in the corners of their rooms. I had a talk with the MTIs and they came down on them in formation instead of me having to do it. That way, the MTIs looked like a holes and I looked like the good guy that was helping them out with their uniforms. It didn't even eat up that much time. As a red rope, I just held weekly meetings with the yellow ropes; I showed them how to maintain uniforms, clean rooms, clean the dayrooms, etc. Whatever needed correction I spoke with the yellow ropes about. Then, they went to their barracks and passed the info along. I still had to make random and scheduled inspections, but it didn't eat up a lot of my time. If you give respect, you'll earn respect. I think it was made easier for me because I pinned on SrA while I was there and had been in for a while, so the MTIs cut me a bit of slack (hell, one of the MTIs was a SrA, hot too) and the other airmen looked up to me because they saw how the MTIs treated me. They figured that if I got treated that way, and they emulated me, then the MTIs would treat them the same way. I didn't happen that way, but it worked out in my favor.
About the women though. I was engaged at the time and had to deal with a LOT of temptations. Of course, at DLI, I let loose. If a virgin leaves DLI, the eagle will fly.
I was a Red Rope in Tech School. I had two weeks lapse between the start of a Security Police Tech School, and I applied and interviewed. I got to know some of the other guys applying and when I made Red Rope, I was able to chose my two Yellow Ropes. I chose the two best people I got along with, and we watched each other's backs. I let the Yellow Ropes choose the Green Ropes and everyone had input and we all got along just fine and were able to keep the idiots and non-hackers in line. It's a little more responsibility, but surround yourself with friends and share the duties.
I can only speak for my tech school which was Security Forces, but they did have black ropes. They were similiar to an Honor Guard in the sense that they were responsible for special drills and ceremonies. As far as other tech schools having them I'm not really sure.
Originally posted by 6109945: d8200 - When were you at DLI? I'm assuming you had a CAT IV. Arabic or Korean? I was there 97-98, Russian...
About the women though. I was engaged at the time and had to deal with a LOT of temptations. Of course, at DLI, I let loose. If a virgin leaves DLI, the eagle will fly.
Yep, '02-'04 for Arabic. I was engaged at DLI too. The wife never met the crowd that I used to hang with, lest some incriminating photos or stories came up.
Oh, and black ropes were given for a number of things. I got one for being on the squadron drill team, but there were other ways of earning one. They seemed to change frequently as it only took a nod from the commander to authorize it. Since I was an A1C at the time, I'm not sure if it had to be taken up at group or wing level, but when I was at DLI we reformed the drill team and got the approval for the black rope after we had already been drilling for a couple of months.
I figured it was Arabic. Luckily I wasn't engaged or attached in any way at DLI.
We didn't have a squadron sponsored drill team. We did have a drill competition every month though. Every building had their own teams. It was actually pretty fun.
Do they still have a run team? I was on it back in the day. The AF never lost. It was pretty funny actually, the SEALs would always start out sprinting but would get lapped before the race was over.
Originally posted by d8200: ... Needless to say, I didn't hold the rope program in the highest regard.
Unfortunately neither do I. However to take the guessing out of the conversation.
quote:
Reference AETC INSTRUCTION 36-2216 ADMINISTRATION OF MILITARY STANDARDS AND DISCIPLINE TRAINING:
21. Authorized Aiguillettes for NPS Airmen:
21.1. Airman leaders will wear the red, yellow, or green aiguillette on and off base when in uniform.
21.2. Chapel assistants will wear the white aiguillette.
21.3. Drum and bugle or fife and drum corps members will wear the silver or white and navy blue aiguillette.
21.4. Drill team members and special activity teams will wear the black aiguillette.
21.5. Airman leaders performing duties listed in paragraphs 21.2. through 21.4. will wear the respective aiguillette only while performing those duties.
21.6. Aiguillettes will be worn on the left shoulder on all indoor and outdoor uniform items and will be secured as close to the collar or lapel as possible without detracting from the appearance of the uniform. Ceremonial aiguillettes are optional for mess dress, semiformal, and service dress uniforms. If worn, they will be grounded on the left shoulder seam. Aiguillettes may be temporarily removed for safety during training. ...back to preceeding paragraphs... 20. Airman Leader Program Requirements and Procedures:
20.1. The purpose of an Airman leader is to assist MTLs, improve Airman morale, and enhance personal leadership skills.
20.2. Airmen leaders supervise or monitor personnel assigned to their squadron or placed under their charge.
20.3. Airman leader training must not interfere with an Airman’s progress in academic training.
20.4. Airman leaders will be in the grade of Airman First Class and have a minimum 80 percent grade average or, if member has no grade average, be progressing satisfactorily. The assistant flight chief or higher will approve candidates to become Airman leaders after a CTF review and personal interview. The following review criteria should be considered: disciplinary infractions, BMT report card, instructor recommendations, and past leadership experience. Note: If no qualified Airmen First Class are assigned to the unit, Airman leaders may be selected from the ranks of Airman and, subsequently, Airman Basic.
20.5. Airmen may become Airman leaders prior to receiving a grade average. However, they must meet academic requirements and maintain a minimum 80 percent grade average once they begin their academic training.
20.6. Satisfactory progress is required for nongraded courses.
20.7. Grade averages and satisfactory progress will be verified prior to receiving the yellow or red rope.
20.8. Airmen leaders have the authority to pull an AETC Form 341 from any NPS Airman and turn it in to their squadron MTL.
20.9. The Airman leader program consists of three phases: Phase I is receiving and reviewing the Airman leader guide (ALG); Phase II is attending the Airman leader course (ALC) conducted by the MTSF, and Phase III is continuation training in the squadron. A GSU assistant flight chief or higher may authorize one-on-one training due to the limited number of Airmen. There is no time limit for the material presented in the ALC.
20.15. The Assistant Flight Chief or higher will remove Airman leader status from Airmen who abuse their authority or fail to perform assigned duties. As a minimum, removal of Airman leader status will be documented on AETC Form 341 or AETC Form 77.
20.16. If an Airman leader’s grade average falls below 80 percent or he or she fails to satisfactorily progress, he or she may continue in Airman leader status until the next block test or retest. Results from the block test or retest will determine continued Airman leader status.
20.17. Only an assistant flight chief or higher may reinstate Airman leader status.
20.18. Green ropes (bay chiefs and element leaders) are typically responsible for all Airmen assigned to a dormitory bay and/or element, Yellow ropes (floor ropes and flight leaders) are typically responsible for all Airmen assigned to a dormitory floor and/or flight. Red ropes (shift leaders) are responsible for all Airmen assigned to a shift or squadron.
20.19. Airman leaders must progress through each rope color before assuming the next higher position.
i was a rope a DLI (arrived in 98, class started in 99 and graduated from Persian in '00).
i actually enjoyed being a red rope. i had his support when we needed to enforce daily room and uniform inspections for a guy that had some serious hygiene problems. you could smell this guy's laundry from down the hall, and it was a benefit to all to get him to clean up - literally. but he also let us slide on a few GI parties, because we all worked well together as a flight to keep our flight clean and orderly on a consistent basis.
without the rope system in tech school, it would have been a lot of complaints on the MTL's desk from several different airmen throughout the course of the day - what a pain.
so for those that think the rope system is a joke, it introduces young airman to the chain of command system, and how to solves problems at the lowest level. usually the folks that don't like the rope system are the ones that could never jive with authority being handed down from their peers to begin with.
and regardless if people think you're a suck-up or an a**hole - just don't be one. just be genuine and fair, and as another forum poster said - identify the good AND the bad. believe it or not, it can affect your career. i made BTZ and was able to test and promote to SSgt ahead of my peers. i attribute it to the rope program. but only if you can balance academics and other commitments.
most people would say "rank doesn't/shouldn't matter," but when you have bills to pay and an eventual civilian job that wants to see that you have displayed leadership for x-amount of time, you set yourself up for success. the only one who controls your career is you, so if you want to try and give it a boost, the rope program is a good place to start. just don't let this boost be at the expense of your peers.
you need to work to be promoted, especially the higher up you go. its not handed to you just because you checked all the boxes. why not start going the extra mile early?
