How many of you out there carry off duty under HR 218?
What additional ID's do you have in addition to your military ID. I ask this because another thread on this forum a lot of boarding officers are saying that they carry off duty under HR 218. What is your take on this? As a CIV LEO I was instructed to arrest and file on any military member carrying without a permit or LE credentials.

CGIS is a different critter, in that there are Civilian, Active Duty, and Reserve Agents (IV's) that carry under 14 USC 95, NOT under 14 USC 89.

Civilian and Active Military carry off-duty concealed their military issued weapons regularly, or personal weapons, when authorized.

Reserve IV's carry their military issued weapons or weapons their civilian agencies have authorized.

ALL CGIS Agents have Crendentials and a Badge, in additional to their military or civilian CAC card.

Civilian and Active Military Agents are graduates of CITP and are considered -1811's, similar to FBI or USSS agents.

Reserve Agents are graduates of local, county, state, or federal academies and are certified LEO's.

What are you looking for?

Now this one would be funny:

"You're under arrest"
"No, you're under arrest"
"No, YOU ARE under arrest"
"NO, YOU ARE under ARREST"
"NO, YOU are UNDER Arrest"

It would be funny if there weren't "blue on blue" incidents (usually involving an off-duty LEO) resulting in tragic, avoidable deaths.

quote:

Originally posted by JerryG:
It would be funny if there weren't "blue on blue" incidents (usually involving an off-duty LEO) resulting in tragic, avoidable deaths.

I agree with JerryG, and here are examples that I posted elsewhere:

Mt. Vernon Cop Slain By Fellow Officers Posthumously Promoted To Detective

Christopher Ridley Was Killed By 'Friendly Fire' Friday Night

MT. VERNON, N.Y. (CBS) ― An emotional tribute was held Tuesday for the off-duty Mt. Vernon police officer killed Friday night by "friendly fire."

To honor the life of 23-year-old Christopher Ridley, police posthumously promoted the officer to detective, presenting his family with the gold detective's shield carried to them by officer Aristotle Evans, one of Ridley's close friends.

"It was an honor. You have some pain, sadness and grief. He was a great officer and a great friend," Evans told CBS 2.

Ridley's family accepted the shield, something they'd always hoped he would earn, though under far different circumstances. The rookie cop was gunned down in front of the White Plains Social Services building by Westchester County police while he was off-duty and trying to break up a dispute between two men.

"This badge gives validation to the fact that Chris acted properly and went above and beyond the call of duty," said Danielle Scholar, Ridley's cousin. "He understood that once you take the oath you are never off-duty.

Investigators continue to piece together the tragic chain of events that led to Ridley's death. They say it began when Ridley tried to subdue Anthony Jacobs, who was violently assaulting another man. Jacobs allegedly began beating Ridley in the head with a rock with a rock.

Sources say Ridley, who was in street clothes at the time, ran into the county office building to summon help, then may have gone to his car to get his gun. At some point thereafter, Ridley's 9 mm service weapon discharged once or twice as he struggled with him in front of the building on 85 Court Street.

Four county cops converged on the scene, witnesses say, but Ridley did not identify himself when cops yelled.

"They were telling him, 'Drop the gun, drop the gun.' He seemed disoriented from the beating, he wasn't listening. He was aiming the gun at the guy on the ground," said a witness who only identified herself as "Cathy."

The four county officers opened fire, shooting 10 or 11 times. Ridley was hit by at least four.

White Plains police went room-to-room in the county office building Tuesday, seeking additional witnesses to the shooting. They're also reviewing extensive surveillance video that captured much of the incident. - WCBS TV, 1/29/2008At St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx, where Officer Hernandez was taken by ambulance and listed in extremely critical condition after four hours of surgery, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly described a tangle of events that ended in what both said was apparently a tragic accident.

OFF DUTY OFFICER BEATEN BY GANG THEN SHOT BY RESPONDING POLICE OFFICERS

"He had his shield in his pocket," the grim-faced mayor said of Officer Hernandez. He added: "The evidence is not clear that the officer that fired the bullets had any knowledge that he was a police officer. He was in plain clothes."

In a sketchy account of the predawn events, Commissioner Kelly said that the officer who shot Officer Hernandez "apparently thought that the officer was about to shoot another individual being held at gunpoint." - New York Times, 1/28/2006

OFFICE SHOT BY POLICE IN MISTAKEN ID INCIDENT DIES

NEW YORK -- An off-duty police officer shot by a patrolman in a case of mistaken identity has died, city officials said.

Officer Eric Hernandez died Wednesday at St. Barnabas Hospital in the Bronx, where he had been in critical condition since the incident on Jan. 28.

The on-duty patrolman shot Hernandez, 24, in each leg and the stomach.

NYPD officials announced that Hernandez would get a full inspector's funeral, which means as far as the department is concerned, he died in the line of duty.

"His valiant struggle over the last several days was emblematic of the grit and determination he demonstrated as a police officer and as an athlete," said New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly. "He fought courageously to the very end, and he will be missed by all." - NBC News, 2/8/2006

City Pays $3 Million in Shooting Of Undercover Officer
By ALAN FEUER
Published: July 14, 2003
A former undercover officer who was shot four times by another officer while they were both investigating gunfire in a Midtown subway station has agreed to drop his lawsuit against the city as part of a $3 million settlement, his lawyer said yesterday.

The undercover officer, Desmond Robinson, had sued the city for $50 million after the shooting, which had provoked a public debate over whether white police officers were too quick to assume that black undercover officers were criminals. Mr. Robinson is black. The officer who shot him, Peter Del-Debbio, who was off duty and in street clothes at the time of the shooting, is white.

Mr. Robinson's lawyer, Brian O'Dwyer, said his client was pleased with the settlement for two reasons. It will provide him with an income to supplement his disability payments, and it will help him put the incident behind him, Mr. O'Dwyer said.

The shooting took place in the subway station at Lexington Avenue and 53rd Street. Mr. Del-Debbio, a city officer, fired five rounds at Mr. Robinson, a transit officer, as they were both hunting for a gunman on the E train platform. Mr. Del-Debbio said he fired because he thought that Mr. Robinson, who was in plain clothes, was a criminal running toward him.

Nonetheless, a Manhattan jury convicted Mr. Del-Debbio of second-degree assault, finding that he had used excessive force when he fired at Mr. Robinson and struck him four times in the back. Mr. Del-Debbio admitted having paused between firing his first two shots and his last three. He was sentenced to five years' probation and 200 hours of community service. He was subsequently dismissed from the force. - New York Times, 7/14/2003

This is why I advocate nationwide standardized ID and badges issued to all LEOs to avoid these types of tragic and preventable deaths. Anytime the weapon is displayed, the badge and/or or ID should be displayed, even if the badge carries no local LE authority (in the case of an out-of-jurisdiction LEO carrying under LEOSA, for example). In this situation, BOTH officers' lives are destroyed with a squeeze of the trigger.

Stay safe.

I really hope those stories get through to all of the folks that want to 'carry off duty' based upon the 20-30 mom and pop safety boardings the do every year. For that fact, I hope they get through to anyone wanting to carry concealed. You can't 'protect your family' when you are dead! Short of wearing one of those jackets with the hidden, tear down "police" signs that are rigged to automatically pop out when the weapon leaves the holster, not much of a way to avoid that blue on blue situation when the stuff hits the fan.

quote:

This is why I advocate nationwide standardized ID and badges issued to all LEOs to avoid these types of tragic and preventable deaths.

And who is going to pay for this unfunded mandate?

We (CGIS) just went through this when we (USCG) went under the DHS umbrella.

Credentials for the 22 various agencies under the new DHS were changed to a similar cred with a uniform DHS banner across the top and security measures to ensure the creds were authentic.

But they drew the line at new badges after realizing the extensive cost of replacing the existing agency badges (our badges would have replaced the current Anchors & Shield with the new DHS Seal). The Agency badges have remained the same.

Badges, in my experience, cost around $65 each. One for the wallet and one for the shirt or belt doubles that price (there are cities like Chicago that only issue one).

Multiple this by the hundreds of thousands LEO's in the country. Way too expensive, IMHO.

From an Officer Safety position, makes sense. Looking at it from an Admin position, waste of money.

...I would tend to think that if one LEO has the time to carefully inspect another LEOs creds in a safe environment, then the blue on blue is moot. I mean really - "OK, keeping pointing that gun at my head and I will put mine away so that I can hold my flashlight with one hand and your creds with the other while I make sure it is a standard badge."

quote:

Originally posted by JerryG:

Credentials for the 22 various agencies under the new DHS were changed to a similar cred with a uniform DHS banner across the top and security measures to ensure the creds were authentic.

All of my department's creds and badges are standardized across the board for each LE component. Only the parent agency and authority wording differ on the creds as well as the badge number prefix.

quote:

Originally posted by JerryG:

quote:

JamesCullen wrote: This is why I advocate nationwide standardized ID and badges issued to all LEOs to avoid these types of tragic and preventable deaths.

And who is going to pay for this unfunded mandate?

Badges, in my experience, cost around $65 each. One for the wallet and one for the shirt or belt doubles that price (there are cities like Chicago that only issue one).

Multiple this by the hundreds of thousands LEO's in the country. Way too expensive, IMHO.

From an Officer Safety position, makes sense. Looking at it from an Admin position, waste of money.

Sorry Jerry, I left out a critical comma.

I should have written, "This is why I advocate nationwide standardized ID (comma), and badges issued to all LEOs to avoid these types of tragic and preventable deaths."

What I meant was not that we should all have standardized badges nationwide or that all agencies should have to pay to replace theirs with new ones, but rather that we should all have SOME SORT OF badges to ID us quickly in a crisis. There are still agencies out there who don't issue a metal shield to their LEOs, believe it or not, or who don't wear a metal shield on their left breast while in uniform (the NJ State Police and RI State Police are two that come to mind, although they do issue some sort of off-duty badge I'm told). In a crisis, waving some sort of metal shield IDs you as a "good guy".

Sorry for my absent comma.

Stay safe!

You can buy just about any badge you want on the 'net. So much for ID purposes.

Yes, there are knock-off CGIS badges on the 'net.

That's why the creds are more important than the badges.

We've found second CGIS badges that are slight seconds to ours, but the imprefections are minor to the untrained eye.

Just look at the case of the foreign national who created his own CBP credentials and vehicle markings in NY.

His homemade ID's looked better than CBP's until the standardized DHS creds came out.

Ah HA! How do we know that yours are real?

Who's on first?

Go back to sleep, Drew.

Speaking as a LEO in a city with one of largest military training camps in the country I have to say what other officers and I would do and do for military, other LEOs, bounty hunters, whatever. I look at each situation different, there has unfortunately been times where I have taken another brothers service weapon because of intoxication,stupidity and being heart broken. I have seen military guys with concealed weapons that I have shook their hands and told them I would say a prayer for them because I know if they are in town, where they are going. Bottom line, under law that states you have the right to conceal a firearm it means just that, conceal! No one should know and if you are going to be in a situation where you think you maybe intoxicated or in a place that would get picked apart on the stand, don't bring it. If not, it is your right, your duty to protect yourself and those around you if needed and justified.