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Electronics Technician (ET)
LORAN ... Final Farewell ?|
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New Member |
So is LORAN "Really" going away this time around ?
LORAN has been shutting down for the last 20 years but somehow it always manages to stay afloat when it is on the chopping block. Any insider know if they are going to pass of LORAN operations as a service contract to the civilian sector ? I know Booz Allen Hamilton, was awarded a contract a couple of years ago to do consulting on the plausibility of handing off LORAN operations to a Pv't contractor . Anybody have any info ? |
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New Member |
I just got this in my e mail from Google Coast Guard Loran Alerts.
Sometimes it has good stuff and just as I was reading mail toady here is some latest info. http://www.insidegnss.com/node/1368 You can find me also in the Leukemia and Cancer in Loran posts . I served 8 years 1969/1977 ET1 USCG and most was Loran in the Pacific and back in the states before going to group stations and small boats from the old 95 footer Cape Straight,82 Point Heron and down until I got out after Opsail 1976 in New York Harbor. Took out the old 44 and cruised all night meeting the all girls sailing crew from England. The Tall ships and celebration was amazing. Hope this helps. Don |
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Experienced Member![]() |
Handing Loran off to civilian contractors was first raised in 1980s and part of the A-76 efforts. I guess if they solved the Command and Control issues from that go round, they could contract out the maintenance and stuff. A carekeeper might be retained as COTR to ensure the contractors are doing what they are suppose to do. Who knows. There might be an employment opportunity for some retired Coasties. |
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New Member |
"Employment Opportunities" is what I am hoping for, lets see how it plays it out .
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New Member |
If they hand off LORAN to civilians I'd send them my resume when my current enlistment is up. LORAN has been the only thing I've done in the CG that I've enjoyed.
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Experienced Member |
The legislation to close LORAN is only proposed. It is not a done deal. Don't anyone get too excited just yet.
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Experienced Member![]() |
Legislature to "close" Loran was met with opposition for many years.
Cooler heads will prevail so the U.S. doesn't put all it's eggs in the GPS basket. Legislature allowing "Contracting out" the services is more likely. So far, DOD, to my knowledge, has gone solo GPS. But remember, Loran has never been recognized publically by the DOD. Some of the historical documents, found at http://www.loran-history.info paint a very different story of the military use of Loran in the early days, much more than the average Coast Guard Loranimal knew. We don't know if the same scenario is happening today. We shall see if the military mission of Loran remains. Of course the AF has their own Loran system (Loran-D), if it's still funded, so they might meet the needs of DOD. I don't know if Loran-D was deployed in GW I or GW II as GPS gardnered all the press. I do know in GW I, many units were outfitted with Loran-C receivers as there was a Loran-C chain operating in the region. |
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Experienced Member |
And the rest of the story....
Advice to the LORSTA's is to keep operating as normal until told otherwise.
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Experienced Member![]() |
John,
Being told to operate as normal must be stressed to those with the purse strings as well. |
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Experienced Member |
Joe,
This happens more often than you think. In this case it was made public in the early stages prior to being set in stone. It's not to say they won't close down the road...just too early at this moment to stop normal functions. John |
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Experienced Member![]() |
John,
I remember the Loran-A shutdown talk. I also remember building 40 wiring harnesses for the 1 MW amplifier only to have two withdrawn from stock. One unit failed to replace the wires as needed so G-EEE contracted SUPCEN to build 40, under the assumption that it's happening to one, it must be happening to the other 1 MW amplifiers. That has remained etched in my mind for the past 30+ years and helped form my opinions of CG maintenance. |
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Experienced Member |
Joe,
This is more than talk, it is proposed legislation. One of the PM's for it was concerned about some recent events in the field and I told the person I'd mention it (here) that it was only proposed legislation and still being discussed at this point. John |
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New Member |
I am all for saving the taxpayers money. However the only way the Obama administration will be able to save a significant amount of money would be if he fired all the coasties currently working in the Loran field. As it is all those personnel will just be reassigned to other jobs, where they will be just another extra hand in an already bloated service.
The taxpayers will be doubly screwed if he has high priced civilians take over the job that the coast guard was doing. I agree, however, that overall the LORAN is a cost effective back up to GPS. So Mr. President please do not close LORAN. Plans to make your own GPS jammer are freely available on the internet, and America needs a backup. Instead lets save some money by firing all the civilians that are currently employed by various branches of the military. When I was coming up guard duties were manned by junior enlisted. Now they are manned by civilians. Some of these civilians are of dubious national origin. Go figure. |
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Experienced Member![]() |
John,
I know it's proposed. The attitude with proposals can be assumptions they are or will be approved so why should we spend money on the upkeep since it's history. Proposed history is not real history. Couple that with the GPS jamming report, the report that GPS will be reduced to less than 95 percent capability in 2010 if the AF doesn't get any funding to do upgrades. Not only will the United States be without GPS at the stated accuracies, but without a viable backup. The AF upgrades have cost overruns exceeding the costs to fund and upgrade the existing Loran Stations. The CG doesn't want the Loran Mission. It's been forced down their throat everytime they try to dump it. The person sitting at the top of the program at the palace was told, when he was a SN going through ET school almost 30 years ago, that Loran was ancient history and would be gone very soon by an ETN ... I forgot what grade the ETN was ... We all know how many ETNs there are in the CG ... and we know how many Loran Stations are still in the CG mission. Why did the DOD and DHS (CG) hide the report identifying Loran as the best backup for GPS? It took alot of FOIAs to get that report. Why would the CG put this nation "at risk"? The digital battleground, like the exercise in San Diego, is only the begining. The nation is at risk if we lose timing for the various networks. Damm, I should be addressing this to my Congress critters. Anyways, I've always said cooler heads will prevail. That doesn't mean the CG will still have the Loran Mission, but, Loran will survive. I'm sure there are retired Loranimals who maintain contact lists of other Loranimals to shift from Blue to civilian in a heartbeat. There are beltway bandits who will submit bids to do the job and do the mass contacts for job applications. |
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Experienced Member |
That is what prompted the concern in HQ with one of the PM's (who knows you BTW). A couple of field reports found their way up here indicating prompting that exact concern. |
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Experienced Member |
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Experienced Member![]() |
John,
No doubt. Those issues concerned me ever since the mid 70s, as it didn't matter what system or platform that was "proposed to close." Tell the PM I said hi. I found the following interesting in the IAD report .... Implementation Considerations: Since World War II, or for the entire history of Loran (Loran-A, Loran-C, and now eLoran), USCG has been the developer and operator of Loran in the US (and until 1995 throughout the world). Since 1997, Congress has directed funds to FAA for eLoran upgrade. In 2003, with the creation of DHS, USCG moved from DOT to DHS, taking oversight of eLoran out of one department (DOT) and moving into the interagency. Funding any program or system through the interagency process is difficult. For example, GPS is a ubiquitous military and civil “utility.” The current process is to assign GPS to an executive agent, the best being USAF in DoD, to assured continued funding of improvements and reliable O&M. The same is probably needed for eLoran. The choices based on funding history are USCG in DHS or FAA in DOT; a subsequent draft assessment by the IAT showed that the combination of FAA for upgrade and USCG for O&M, though awkward, appeared to be workable. However, if not a combination, leaving all in USCG would be next best, followed by FAA. Almost no other agency has the necessary background or experience to provide what is first and foremost a “safety of life” navigation system, which also provide full interagency position, navigation, time, and frequency backup for critical applications based on GPS. Current Status – October 2008: Policy decision has been made (March 2007) and announced in February 2008. Announcement was accompanied by implementation plan—move eLoran from USCG to DHS NPPD (National Communications System) effective with start of FY2009. In July 2008, DHS and USCG appropriations committee language indicated Congress did not approve the implementation plan and directed that eLoran remain in USCG. Since this was appropriations language, it is effectively a “one year” disapproval of the implementation plan. However, one should probably consider this a bellwether indication—Congress believes that eLoran should remain in USCG. From the DHS Press Release titled: STATEMENT FROM DHS PRESS SECRETARY LAURA KEEHHNER ON THE ADOPTION OF NATIONAL BACKUP SYSTEM TO GPS dated Feb 7, 2009 which was in that same report.
I know they got that line from the NAVCEN website, however, Loran-C was not originally developed for civil marine use in coastal area. The first operational Loran-C chain was the Med Sea Chain. It's use was not for the civilians in the Mediterranean Countries. It was placed there for the Department of Defense usage. I had addressed the false statement once before, but I guess no one in NAVCEN believes it. Too bad the documentation exists on the web, if they decided to search for it. Loran has it's roots in military applications and was classified during WWII. Loran-C's military usage still keeps popping up. I wouldn't doubt it if there were Loran-C receivers in the sandbox. Read the 1991 International Loran Associations Convention minutes. You will see how Loran was used in Gulf War I. |
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Military.com Forums
Coast Guard Discussions
Electronics Technician (ET)
LORAN ... Final Farewell ?

