Hello All,

I'm currently thinking about putting my name on the ET A School list, but have a couple questions, mainly regarding MK-92 and LORAN.

First, is the MK-92 training voluntary, or is it select and direct? Is this something that is assigned out of 'A' School, or is it done at a later point in your career?

What is competition like for getting a LORAN station? Is this something that can be assigned to 'A' school students? If so, is there fierce competition to get the LORAN stations? Are they looking for a certain caliber of student?

Thanks in advance!

There are two factors that will determine the billet you will get out of "A" School:
1. Grades, positive and negative sifs (The "A" School version of page 7's), positive and negative page 7's, and TIS/Seatime.
2. Whatever billets are offered to your class.

The better you do in "A" School, the better the chance you will have to get what you want out of the available billets.

As far as Mk-92 and LORAN, they are treated the same as any other PCS... But, to answer your questions:
Mk-92
Yes, it is voluntary, unless you have last pick and that is the billet available...
Yes and yes, it is assigned out of "A" School but it is just another billet.
LORAN
Hmm, I didn't know there was competition for LORAN, other than isolated stations...
Yes, "A" Schoolers are often assigned to LORAN stations and/or LORAN Support.
Like I said, I had no idea LORAN was that popular...

Please correct me if I am wrong anybody!

So MK-92 is a billet? I thought it was a qualification one acquired through a training school. Do you mean the training for the MK-92 qualification could be assigned out of 'A' School?

I've heard many people wanted to go to a LORAN station, that is why I asked that. Is that not the case?

Thanks for your help.

Typically, the Conus Loran stations have an ET2 billet. That is not normally filled by an "A" school graduate. I have seen cases where it was filled by "A" school graduates, but the cavaet "needs of the service" trumps all other rules.

"A" school types typically go to an ET3 billet.

The MK-92 qual is for some who go aboard ship, as it is a "C" school.

Since the future of Lorstas is still up in the air, you may not even have to worry about that option

quote:

Originally posted by NewbieCoastie:
So MK-92 is a billet? I thought it was a qualification one acquired through a training school. Do you mean the training for the MK-92 qualification could be assigned out of 'A' School?

I've heard many people wanted to go to a LORAN station, that is why I asked that. Is that not the case?

Thanks for your help.

Well, if you want to be specific MK-92 is a "C" School, the only PCS "C" School in the Coast Guard. If you choose MK-92 out of "A" School, you will not know which boat you will be going to, that will be disclosed while you are in school and usually is left to the class to decide where each one wants to go.
If you choose to go to MK-92 from the fleet, you will more than likely answer an "Early Afloat Solicitation" which will be sent out through CGMS. More than likely you will need to be tour complete and you will list the cutter that you would like to go to after completing school. You will know which cutter you are going to before you go to school.

As far as LORAN, I guess it depends on what is available and where your classmates want to go... Like I said, I can understand why isolated LORAN (only two left) can be popular, even NAVCEN or LSU since they are just support and not LORAN per se.

What it all comes down to is what you want to do with your career. Look me up on global, I can answer more questions for you since I was stationed at NAVCEN and then went through MK-92 School and am now (finally) on a cutter.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeJester:
Typically, the Conus Loran stations have an ET2 billet. That is not normally filled by an "A" school graduate. I have seen cases where it was filled by "A" school graduates, but the cavaet "needs of the service" trumps all other rules.

"A" school types typically go to an ET3 billet.

The MK-92 qual is for some who go aboard ship, as it is a "C" school.

Not so much anymore Chief, since the fleet had been hurting for ET's there were lots of people being sent to LORAN stations and NAVCENs right out of "A" School.

And yes, MK-92 is a qual but up until recently it was the only way to get on a cutter as an ET for sure. And yes, it is a designated billet.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: irenemichelle,

Only two isolated LORAN stations left? Which are those? I thought it was Attu, Port Clarence, and St. Paul. Did one of those get dropped?

quote:

I can understand why isolated LORAN (only two left)

Did they move Port Clarence to Nome already?

Maybe IreneMichelle doesn't count St Paul as isolated because of the village.

quote:

Originally posted by JoeJester:

quote:

I can understand why isolated LORAN (only two left)

Did they move Port Clarence to Nome already?

Maybe IreneMichelle doesn't count St Paul as isolated because of the village.

Belay my last; three...

Hello,

Since I was making these assignments until just recently, I think I can provide SOME insight into how the jobs may be filled. There's been no real "misinformation" presented here. But some things have changed over the past year or two, especially since the time that Irene attended MK-92 training.

For starters, the ET rating is fully staffed. Therefore, there's been little to no need for EPM to send fresh A-school grads to CONUS LORSTAs. There was one or two exceptions this year due to urgent needs. But they are exceptions; not the rule. For the most part, A-schoolers are only sent to the OCONUS LORSTAs (again... a few exceptions). My practice for staffing the OCONUS LORSTAs was to send A-schoolers graduating in AUG/SEP so I could utilize fall training quotas. This saved the spring quotas for the ET2s transferring during the normal AY. It worked fairly well, but required a lot of oversight.

Regarding MK-92 training (voluntary vs. involuntary), my practice was to send about 3-4 seats to each A-school. If lots of folks wanted to attend (be it for technical or SRB reasons), then there was competition and the seats went to the "volunteers" with the highest class standing. If most of the class was trying to avoid sea duty, then those in the bottom of the class were sent involuntarily. It's all relative to what else is offered. Some who don't want MK-92 training may still opt to go to school over being sent to some of our overseas units. One funny class had some opt to go to MK-92 school to avoid all of the ships I offered the class. It was like seeing a torqued-off SN put his name on the FS "A" School list to get off his cutter sooner. HAHA!

The scary part for MK-92 candidates is the lack of knowing where they will ultimately wind up. Field technicians answering the Early Afloat Solicitation are sent the cutter requested (or a collocated alternate). A-schoolers tend to be detailed as needed. I used to send a list of MK-92 needs to each MK-92 class about 3-4 months before graduation. Sometimes the selection was good; sometimes not. It depends on the opinion of the class, I guess. Take a look at the homeports of 378s and 270s and you'll see where MK-92 techs could wind up. Don't ask for MK-92 school if your highest desire is to be assigned to D8 or D9. You'll be disappointed!

Personally, I think the single MK-92 tech who goes to MUNRO has it made: A PRI 2 after only two years AND an SRB which is greater than any other ET? CAKE!

Anyway, the new detailer may opt to continue with my practice. Or he may have to make some changes due to new dynamics in the rating. That's the real fun of being the AO: Things change so fast and frequently that there's no such thing as "doing it the way it's always been done." Each of my three assignment seasons were different and I had to do things differently each year.

OH - One small correction to the list of our PCS "C" Schools... MK-92 AND CIWS are both PCS "C" Schools. CIWS positions are actually more difficult to manage than MK-92 positions. And there's one more PCS training move: AAIWSM, which is the CG's only remaining "B" School which is about 8-9 months in Pensacola.

Take Care...

I have to disagree with you stealth (Sir) In MK-92 you actually do know where you are going.... a ship.

"I have good news and bad news, the good news is you're all going to ships, the bad news is, it might not be the one you want." (borrowed without permission from Gunner Bedford (ret))

Hello,

quote:

Originally posted by onewhl750:"I have good news and bad news, the good news is you're all going to ships, the bad news is, it might not be the one you want." (borrowed without permission from Gunner Bedford (ret))

WOW. Are you someone once detailed by Woody Bedford? If yes, then I guess you're either an old FT or old GM... emphasis on OLD. I had a pi$$ing match with Woody when I was short-touring from the TRACEN as an FT1. It's hard to say who won... he sent me to CAMPBELL, homeported in what was widely considered the worst of ports at the time. Anyway, he also used to tell those wanting the West Coast, "Sure, I can get you to the West Coast... the West Coast of Florida!" I guess I could've said something similar to those seeking the Gulf Coast: "Sure, I can get you to the Gulf Coast... of Alaska!" But I didn't really detail that way and only made those sorts of jokes with folks who I knew and/or were not impacted by my immediate assignment decisions.

My favorite quote out of Woody, one which I could see presented many times to our instructors, went something like this: "I want you to pull out your wallet and look at your ID card... Is it GREEEEEEN??? Ya know what THAT means? It means 'Pack your @#$%ing seabag you're going afloat, G-Damnit!'" Ah... the goodl ol' days. I can't imagine EPM communicating with POs that way today.

Thanks for the memories!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: StealthTDI,

quote:

Originally posted by JoeJester:
Typically, the Conus Loran stations have an ET2 billet. That is not normally filled by an "A" school graduate. I have seen cases where it was filled by "A" school graduates, but the cavaet "needs of the service" trumps all other rules.

"A" school types typically go to an ET3 billet.

The MK-92 qual is for some who go aboard ship, as it is a "C" school.

As much as I would love to agree with the Chief on this matter I have recently come from 2 loran stations on here in the lower and 1 in AK and the billets were getting filled by new ETs. That said those jobs are as Chief metioned tend to be ET2 billets and if they are interested you could easily lose those billets to an ET2 or ET3 selected for ET2.

Greg,

The AK unit you mentioned was assigned an extra ET3. I filled the ET2 position there with an ET2 in 2008. As for your CONUS unit, that was precisely the LORSTA which saw the most recent exception. As you know, circumstances beyond our control happened there late last year. All I could offer was "an A-schooler now" or "an ET2 much later." Given the grave nature of things there, the NAVCEN and DPW opted for the A-schooler. I sent another ET3 from the field later. Unfortunately, the crisis there drove some compromises.

Sir,

It's Ed Shank, and yes I was detailed by Gunner Bedford. I do remember the green ID card comment as well. Gunner detailed me when I left MK92 school.

Greg,

The Coast Guard told Congress in Feb 1984 that the Remotely Operated Loran stations would be staffed by "seasoned" Loran Technicians. Granted that was 25 years ago and I'm sure the detailers over the past quarter century have done their dammedest to fulfill that ideal. "Extras" don't count as they could be considered training billets. As we know, every Loran Station, minus the three isolated, are remotely operated and have a minimum staff.

As with all things, the Needs of the Service trump all other wishes, desires, or fantacies.

I've worked with detailers and accepted someone who didn't hold the EPO qualification but had MK-22, AC&R (a six week school). That person was a fully qualified EPO before he left the unit and went on to be an EPO at a SAR unit after that tour. That was my second EPO who did back-to-back EPO tours.

OICs working with detailers is very easy as they will take your needs and recommendations in high considerations. I even recommended who my replacement should have been. I wrote an email informing the OPCON of the three who called and asked for my job, and recommended one. I called the detailer a month later and she said she had read my email, which went from OPCON to Program to Detailer. I may have missed a step in the chain, but that was the essence. With concurrance of the OPCON and Program, my replacement was who I recommended.

Since that time, there have been multiple fleet up's at that unit, twice the XPO fleeted up to be OIC and the odd ball case was the ET2 went on to be XPO and then OIC. I guess Jupiter was aligned with Mars during those "transfers". Those scenarios have the blessing of the OPCONs or they wouldn't have happened.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JoeJester,

quote:

Originally posted by StealthTDI:
Greg,

The AK unit you mentioned was assigned an extra ET3. I filled the ET2 position there with an ET2 in 2008. As for your CONUS unit, that was precisely the LORSTA which saw the most recent exception. As you know, circumstances beyond our control happened there late last year. All I could offer was "an A-schooler now" or "an ET2 much later." Given the grave nature of things there, the NAVCEN and DPW opted for the A-schooler. I sent another ET3 from the field later. Unfortunately, the crisis there drove some compromises.

Scott,
at no time was I criticizing what you had to do, just stating what Joe stated more eloquently "the needs of the service", I hope you did not take it that way and hope your current position is treating you well.

Greg,

No offense taken at all. Hopefully, my post was an example of the crazy dynamics behind some assignments (although I intentially omitted details). The MK-92 and CIWS assignments could get pretty nutty, too. I'd convene "x" number of students, select an appropriate number of positions for the class, and then need to rerack everything just a month before they graduate due to new fleet needs. There were times when I have more MK-92 techs trying weed than what I could keep up with.

Well, it just goes to show that nothing is static... What may be the norm now may change when you go through school.

I guess the best advice, in my humble opinion, is to go to school, do the best you can, stay out of trouble, and pick where YOU want to go. You have total control of how you rank against your classmates, as far as what billets your class gets, well... the powers that be will decide that!

The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as pretty much everyone has mentioned. When I went to the LORAN station it was by choice. I requested to be assigned and got my wish. When I attended MK-92 School it was "kind of" by choice: Go to 92 school and stay in the area or don't and go somewhere far, far away...The detailer was fair with me and in the end I got what I wanted which was to finish my career in the local area. To be honest, if you're going to a 270 as an ET, the MK-92 billet is the better one to have.
I recommend putting in for ET school if being an ET is what you want to do. You're going to get some good jobs and you'll probably go to a bad one somewhere too, but you'll always get paid, you'll always eat and the if you truly want to be an ET, you'll always love what you do.
Oh, and StealthTDI, not much could have changed (with the noted exception of the detailer) since Irene went to C school, she graduated with me.
ET1