ALL
For some months we have had a discussion re: these topics on various Surface Warfare threads. I would offer the following set of questions for discussion, AKA Naval Institute Littorrel warfare methodology.
1. Given the Naval Forces in the Gulf of Aden, off the Somali coast, the piracy therein and the tactics currently being used:
A. Will the strait continue to be open.?
B. Will the tactics employed effectively stop the piracy?
C. Will the On Scene Naval forces agree to work the problem as a Unified Naval Force or independently?
2. If the scenario further deterioates, will the US Naval Fifth Fleet become further invovled?
A.Will the situation, if a closure of the strait occurs effect the oil transfer? ( this is a given).
Following is latest news from the area.
As a collateral discussion point, I would offer the Gulf of Mexico, Carribean sea, lately becoming a Russian Naval Lake. My Opine on this is that the Russians even being in the vicinty of Key West is an affront to common sense.
Aden Gulf News.
Thursday, January 1, 2009
Malaysian Helicopter Saves Indian Tanker From Pirates
Thursday , January 01, 2009
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia —
A Malaysian military helicopter saved an Indian tanker from being hijacked Thursday, foiling the new year's first attack by pirates in the dangerous Gulf of Aden off the chaotic African nation of Somalia, an official said.

"This was a New Year's gift to the owners of the Indian tankers. If the Malaysians had not arrived their ship would have been certainly hijacked," said Noel Choong of the International Maritime Bureau's piracy reporting center.

The Malaysian rescue comes as more and more countries are sending warships to join a multinational naval force to protect commercial vessels passing through one of the world's most important sea routes. On Christmas Day, a German helicopter similarly saved an Egyptian ship off Somalia, a lawless country that has become a breeding ground for pirates who have raked in millions of dollars in ransom from hijackings.

The Indian tanker carrying a full load of oil was steaming toward the Suez Canal when it was attacked by two skiffs, one of which carried seven pirates dressed in military-style uniforms, said Choong.

"They came close to the ship and started firing machine guns, hitting the bridge and the accommodation area," Choong told The Associated Press.

He said the pirates, believed to be Somalis, tried to board the vessel several times while "firing repeatedly" but failed.

The captain increased the ship's speed to maximum, made evasive maneuvers and sent an SOS, which was received by a Malaysian frigate, KD Sri Inderah Sakti, only 15 nautical miles away, he said.

The frigate dispatched a Fennec light military helicopter, which arrived within minutes, said Choong.

On spotting the helicopter the pirates stopped firing and fled. There were no injuries to the crew but the tanker sustained some damage, Choong said.

Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the 5th Fleet in Bahrain, said the U.S. Navy had no immediate information about a pirate attack.

The Malaysians, who are part of the multinational task force, also saved a Chinese ship less than two weeks ago.

More than a dozen warships are now patrolling the vast gulf. Countries as diverse as Britain, India, Iran, the United States, China, France and Germany have naval forces in the waters.

According to the International Maritime Bureau, pirates attacked 111 times in the Gulf of Aden in 2008, out of which 42 resulted in successful hijackings. Choong said 14 ships are still in the hands of pirates with more than 240 hostages.

"Despite the increase in naval activities pirates are still managing to find loopholes to attack and hijack ships because warships cannot be everywhere at the same time," said Choong.

The pirates have been given a free hand to operate because of more than a decade of turmoil in Somalia. The nation of about 8 million people has not had a functioning government since warlords overthrew a dictator in 1991 and then turned on each other.
end
Comments?

quote:

Originally posted by TennSlim:
Following is latest news from the area.
As a collateral discussion point, I would offer the Gulf of Mexico, Carribean sea, lately becoming a Russian Naval Lake. My Opine on this is that the Russians even being in the vicinty of Key West is an affront to common sense.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. A token and very temporary Russian presence if the Gulf of Mexico hardly makes it a Russian lake. I still don't understand what you would have America do to keep the Russians out anyways... Torpedo a few of their ships in international waters just for kicks? A more measured response would be to ensure a US presence in their region of the world. But oh, wait, we already have one. In fact we have the entire 7th Fleet knocking on their door in the Pacific. They can "winter" in the Gulf of Mexico all they want, just so long as they have to bring their ships through an American ocean to get there. Problem solved.

AoiSonlee meet our resident Chicken Little.

The Russians are comming, The Russians are comming....

This could be a good title for a movie---Oh wait, that movie has already been done. A pretty funny one as I recall.

Now to be a little more serious.
It seems just a tad ironic, and more then a little arrogant to me, to think that we (America) can sail our ships into, and onto any waters we damn well please (the black Sea ring any bells?) But woah Nellie, don't you dare sail your ships in My (Americas) Gulf of MEXICO. Gee I wonder why its called the Gulf of MEXICO? I guess cause it belongs to New Mexico.

Gerry you called it right as usual.. The sky must indeed be falling, if Chicken Little says so.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RiverRat139,

ALL
My last comment re the Gulf gets more response than the whole post. Amazing.
Point
1. Our OIL assets lie in the Gulf.
2. Our Pipline for OIL and Natural GAS lie in the Gulf.
3. Our SA interests lie in the passageways via the GULF
4. Our NA cruise ships ply the GULF.
5. The GULF is a USA economical area to be protected, watched over for drug traffic, and the basics, protecting our citizenry.
My Opine.
In the Adm. Mahans' treatise, that we all studied as newbies to this business, he made the point that CONTROL of the SEAS is the key to economical survival, let alone economical superiority.
The various straits of the worlds oceans are the keys to this idea. We see today, a few fast gunboats holding hostage millions of dollars of economics, crew members, tonnage, cargo, IN THE STRAITS OF ADEN.
A fracture of our stated doctrines of Strait Control, IE: Gulf Control etal will open the door to the same activity here, as we see across the globe.
Point
1. As to our sailing the seas, yep, we can go where we want, when we want. That is the result of 232 odd years of our freedom and liberty. Bought and paid for by the Farraguts, Mahans, Jones, and all the rest.
end

quote:

CONTROL of the SEAS is the key to economical survival,

It is for most seafaring countries. The biggest point is that the six frigats were brought into existance to get rid of the sultans that captured ships and held them for ransom. The US did that for our rights but didn't try to lord it over the world when they suceeded. They made the Mediteranean safe for commerce but they didn't claim it as their own.

Every country has the right to sail the oceans without interferance. If they ask us for help then we help, but we don't just unilateraly jump on someones case because we don't agree with their politics. The Central American countries have the right to trade with whom they please as does every country. If it causes problems for us then we deal with it.

The reason I didn't reply to anything else was because I wasn't quite sure what your point was, aside from the obvious: restricted waters and strategic choke points are important to commerce. Mahan says so, and you and I agree: he's probably right.

Do you think we aren't doing enough to protect AMERICAN trade? Do you think we have an obligation to also protect international trade? Do the pirates pose a serious threat at present in your opinion, or are they just the latest news story a la “the summer of sharks" a few years back?

Honestly, I get the feeling that the increased interest in piracy has more to do with the news not having anything else worth talking about (hell, we all know the war in Iraq isn't going to get much media attention with the steadily lowering casualty rates and the media doesn’t seem to care much about Afghanistan either). I'm still not convinced that what's happening now isn't just business as usual for the Gulf of Aden and the Horn of Africa. US Navy ships have been dealing with pirates in the region since at least the beginning of my brief time in the Navy. I can't say much more because until lately the media didn't seem to care, hence I didn't start learning about it until I became a SWO. US Navy ships get fired on, return fire, and sink or capture a pirate vessel? Nobody cares. Pirates hijack a merchant? Nobody cares. US Navy destroyer shells the coast of Somalia? Nobody cares.

Now, all of the sudden, the media cares. I just can't figure out why it's only just happened, it's not like piracy in the region is breaking news.

On spotting the helicopter, the Pirates stopped firing and fled.....

That advantage alone is gonna prevent all warships but one from being effective at deturrence, and it`s too damn expensive to send. ( were`ve I heard that ?? )

Now someones` gonna say ..OH REALY...and I`m gonna say ....YA REALY... Let`s see ....ya got them missles ( til they reach shore and disapear ).... We`ll there`s them aircraft.......( wheather not included )....5" BABY.... ( on a two and a half inch hull !!, give me a F*n break... ) ....OK, we`ll put a sub under the surface and ID them somehow !!,...( No comment )......

Then they`ll be the smarter ones` !! The ones` who know what can and can`t chase/persue over the horizon. RUNNING,..is cheap, done at will, planned, and if ample time in the planning...available.

Oct. of 06 turned the table for the sea going criminal. Everyone knows High Seas mean large ships,...but forgets the Straights and Chokes !! ( notice they moore the Captives off shore )....To escape into a lifeless, hot, rough surface desert, ( their home ) with no witnesses or informants,...communicate with cell phones and laptops, ( they`ve aquired seven digit ransomes already ) leaves Skippers useless to persue. For now,...they will thrive !!

No-ones` gonna paralell the Somali Coastline, from the Capital North, 1 Mile off shore ( wich is do-able on every square inch North of the Capital, til the Eritrea..(sp) Coastline ), and control anything or set-up a post. Hope of getting a Nimitz Group to do it, is OUT. I don`t know why you think they don`t know this !! Pirates can draw circles on charts, stay in them, and wait for prey. Ya gonna have to ride the Coastline, smack what you wish, give permission to fish, and everything will be fine !! That`s why the World is sending what they think might help out !! No-one can send the Man-O-War,...only Carriers,...and if I were a Pirate in Somalia,..I`d be laughing the loudest !!

Now about the Gulf of Mexico....Slim,...ever see them Camen chicks ??....Goooood for Navy !!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OddBall1st,

quote:

Originally posted by OddBall1st:
On spotting the helicopter, the Pirates stopped firing and fled.....

That advantage alone is gonna prevent all warships but one from being effective at deturrence, and it`s too damn expensive to send.

Huh? A destroyer (or an FFG, or a CG, or even one of them new fangled LCS') with a helo deck and a hangar... too expensive to send? Are you high? Oh, wait... You were talking about some form of capital ship... Sorry.

quote:

We`ll there`s them aircraft.......( wheather not included )....

Funny thing about weather is pirates aren't immune from it either. Small boats don't do so well in rough seas and tend not to be able to reach very high speeds or act as a stable gun platform.

quote:

Then they`ll be the smarter ones` !! The ones` who know what can and can`t chase/persue over the horizon.

You mean to tell me a helo lacks OTH capabilities relative to the ship it was launched from?

quote:

Everyone knows High Seas mean large ships,...

Let me guess... Battleships? This line is starting to get really old. The fact that you are advocating the use of Battleships (or capital ships of any sort) to suppress two bit pirates in motor boats is even more ludicrous than your usual BS plug. And of course by BS I mean "BattleShip".

quote:

No-one can send the Man-O-War,...only Carriers,...and if I were a Pirate in Somalia,..I`d be laughing the loudest !!

First of all, a destroyer/FFG/CG/LCS is a man of war. Second of all, who the hell is sending carriers? Who the hell needs one?

Your insistence that the battleship is the best and only weapon capable of defeating EVERY foe is quite irritating and more than just a little asinine. Get over the battleships already.

quote:

Your insistence that the battleship is the best and only weapon capable of defeating EVERY foe is quite irritating and more than just a little asinine.

What do you expect from a civilian that hasn't got a clue as to what he's talking about. And the question about what he's drinking is valid from the looks of it.
Reminds me of Player.

Oddball will you please see your Doctor and get your Meds adjusted.

ALL
The Commandant of the USCG has a blog post, re this subject, circa Dec 5 08. His concern is the punishment of the captured pirates. IE what to do with them, short of a firing squad.
My Point,
1. The NEED to end this activity increases daily.
2. The continuing possibilty of a CLOSURE of any of these narrows, means we need to solve the problem soonest.
3. At this point, near as I can discern, the activity response is at the back burner of the UE, USA, and other countries naval forces. Yes, there are token forces on scene, and yes, there have been some successes using Helos, Quick Comms and fire hoses. But no dedicated UN type response.
4. Backwater naval activity is always laid on the local naval forces to solve. Our USN and USCG folks are doing well, coordination with on scene naval units is working, but the risk continues.
Tactics, Strategy, Economics, Politics at National Levels, these are the elements of risk, just as it was in the Med during the days of Tripoli. Strange how things come around again and again.
end

Adm Mahan Rules...
continuing, Seems the straits are economical important after all. A USN ADM now has the conn off the Somalia coast, controlling the entire gaggle of vessels, Iranian, NATO, China et al
These folks must grind their teeth, knowing a USA ADM has the conn.
end

quote:

Originally posted by TennSlim:
A USN ADM now has the conn off the Somalia coast, controlling the entire gaggle of vessels, Iranian, NATO, China et al
These folks must grind their teeth, knowing a USA ADM has the conn.

I'd be curious to know the extent to which other Navies will submit to join a multi-national force. I can see Western Europe (even France and Germany) going along with it, but not Iran or China. Just because we're sending an Admiral (who is a VMI graduate btw) doesn't mean anyone but us and some of our closest allies will submit to his authority. It's not even clear to me what authority he's intended to have. He obviously can't just "assume control" of Iranian ships and the UN can hardly make them submit to his authority. They can barely even write a strongly worded letter requesting compliance.

Just the same, I'm all for kicking the crap out of pirates whether we agree they are a serious threat or not: gives us surface folks something to boost our self-esteem with.

ALL
Again, economics plays the lead role.
Regardless of the Stars on the Bars, Conning this group will take an excellent set of Cajones.
The tape pics showing the payoff of 3 mil to the pirates demonstrted once again, crime, in that area does pay off. The hijacks will continue.
Multi Force Nationals, obey thier countries telex, if the money is the object. USA, USSR, IRAN, et al will do as thier Guvmnt state depts. tell them to do. On the ground obedience will be a matter for the local Capt's to deal with. In the final analysis, the on the scene command will have the decisive decsions to make.
I would hope, this Multi National effort will make some difference. One ship blocking a narrows means a down tick on the Global Stock Markets. Oil is still the life blood of the economy, regardless of the Tree Huggers attitudes.
end

ALL
Update.
Currently, the Chinese now have a Cruiser and support ships doing convoy duty in these straits. CTF 151, our USN Adm, has the lead.
It continues to amaze me, that the Surface Warfare folks are not into the Tactics, Strategies et al of this subject.
We know the big decks, CVN, Battle Groups will not come within spitting distance of these areas. That leaves us with the Cruisers, Destroyers, and Unrep ships, plying these waters.
Have we given thought to the mix? Multiple nationals in close waters? Continuing small boat attempts to hi jack? A sinking of one of these oil tankers and the environemental effect?
Folks, this is situation just ripe for escalation.
end

quote:

Originally posted by TennSlim:
Currently, the Chinese now have a Cruiser and support ships doing convoy duty in these straits. CTF 151, our USN Adm, has the lead.

Just because we sent an Admiral doesn't mean anyone other than US forces in the area have to follow his lead. So far as I know, no other country as placed its forces under US control, including the Chinese.

Seems to me that a Browning HB .50 caliber mg has enough range to take out some turkey in a small boat armed with RPG's. Seems we don't have the will.