Where were you and what were you doing during the TET Offensive?

I WASN'T IN COUNTRY UNTIL 70 I ALWAYS CONSIDERED VIET NAM A CONFLICT BECAUSE OF NO DECLARATION WAS DECLARED.

quote:

Originally posted by OldAFcop:
Where were you and what were you doing during the TET Offensive?

I am just learning how to post on this board, so I will again submit my remarks and please disregard my former post, as I did not put my name on it, and that is not like me. I did not know that only a number would appear. It makes me look like a fake, and I am not! The apparatus will not change to my name in the avitar. Oh Well! I am Joe Carey!

Where was I during the Tet Offensive? Which one? The enemy never took a holiday. I was there in the 66 Tet, and we always had violations from the opposition, and there were always killings going on, yet we had to get authorization before we could fire back. Never trust the word of a Communist or a Socialist!

Of course, I know that you are referring to the 68 Tet. But, maybe it is not so much that we just never learned that an enemy is called the enemy just because he will take advantage of any lull in the fighting to reload or to gain a tactical advantage, where we did not!

I was lifted out of Vietnam in August of 66 for the last time, and during the Tet 68 I was safely at home and watching the whole thing flash upon the TV Screen, and I was so perplexed as to what I saw going down.

For one, the enemy did not attack American troops nor did they attack the Korean troops, but rather they did attack the ARVN, and from all appearances, even with the ARVN on holiday, they did quite well, and none of their unit surrendered, nor did they go over to the enemy. They fought a good military fight while in retreat and they held their own until the US Troops arrived on the scene.

I saw the inevitable happen as the combined efforts of the US, Korean, and ARVN moved as one against the formerly open city of Hue that the enemy took, and I saw the enemy crumble (They lost fully a Third of their forces). For all of their efforts they never gained a square yard of territory, and the people of South Vietnam never rose up to join with them. They were soundly beaten! And, we had our chance to pursue the enemy across the DMZ and wreck total victory over them, but Westmoreland did not follow up on an opportunity that comes once in a lifetime in a war, and he alone is responsible for the lost of South Vietnam to the North Vietnamese. The war would have been over in a matter of days and countless numbers of American lives would have been saved, but it was an opportunity lost!

Yet, we had the news reporters like Walter Cronkite come on the TV screen proclaiming a victory for the North Vietnamese.

Maybe, war is more in the preception of the socially alliegned, or the want of a lose that clouds the eyes, rather than in the reality of what had occurred after all!

In any case, the US Congress (The Democrat Congress) threw the good citizens of South Vietnam into the clutches of the North Vietnamese. It is no wonder why no one would trust us for the next 40 years! Even now, they try to throw victory away!

I guess the moral of this story is, when you can not beat the USA, go to their Congress and they will give you a victory that you could never have earned!

Joe Carey K 3/7 USMC Chu Lai 65-66

quote:

Posted Tue 08 January 2008 08:38 AM Hide Post
I WASN'T IN COUNTRY UNTIL 70 I ALWAYS CONSIDERED VIET NAM A CONFLICT BECAUSE OF NO DECLARATION WAS DECLARED.

Well, that seems to be a misunderstanding that many people had at the time.

When someone shoots at you, it's called, "A War."

quote:

Originally posted by OldAFcop:

quote:

Posted Tue 08 January 2008 08:38 AM Hide Post
I WASN'T IN COUNTRY UNTIL 70 I ALWAYS CONSIDERED VIET NAM A CONFLICT BECAUSE OF NO DECLARATION WAS DECLARED.

Well, that seems to be a misunderstanding that many people had at the time.

When someone shoots at you, it's called, "A War."

“The truth from an old Army Warrant Officer - that is an oxymoron, right?”

Here’s my definition of a war:

Men and women ware their country’s uniform - they get shot or blown up and they bleed real blood. They die real deaths and leave behind real loved one who greave and never forget, and/or they watch it happen to their buddies. Or they come home without arms, legs or other body parts. Or at best, they come home and dream bad dreams and never forget.

It doesn’t matter if it happens in jungles, desserts, on mountain tops, in city streets, in the air, at sea, or where temperature drops to 20 below or climbs to 120 above.

It doesn’t matter if congress declares war or they just call it a conflict, and it doesn’t matter if there is a victory, defeat, a peace treaty or if they are sent home without any settlement. Ladies and gentleman, to me it is a WAR.

BTW, I moved from Cam Rahn Bay to Qui Nhon courtesy of the USAF arriving at Qui Nhon Air Port about 2300 hours that fateful night.

At least that’s the way, IMN2BHO, this old soldier and proud Coast Guard dad sees it!

“WOPA!” If you have to ask, you wouldn’t understand! And If I told you … well you know how that goes!

quote:

Originally posted by 2910229:

quote:

Originally posted by OldAFcop:
Where were you and what were you doing during the TET Offensive?

I am just learning how to post on this board, so I will again submit my remarks and please disregard my former post, as I did not put my name on it, and that is not like me. I did not know that only a number would appear. It makes me look like a fake, and I am not! The apparatus will not change to my name in the avitar. Oh Well! I am Joe Carey!

Where was I during the Tet Offensive? Which one? The enemy never took a holiday. I was there in the 66 Tet, and we always had violations from the opposition, and there were always killings going on, yet we had to get authorization before we could fire back. Never trust the word of a Communist or a Socialist!

Of course, I know that you are referring to the 68 Tet. But, maybe it is not so much that we just never learned that an enemy is called the enemy just because he will take advantage of any lull in the fighting to reload or to gain a tactical advantage, where we did not!

I was lifted out of Vietnam in August of 66 for the last time, and during the Tet 68 I was safely at home and watching the whole thing flash upon the TV Screen, and I was so perplexed as to what I saw going down.

For one, the enemy did not attack American troops nor did they attack the Korean troops, but rather they did attack the ARVN, and from all appearances, even with the ARVN on holiday, they did quite well, and none of their unit surrendered, nor did they go over to the enemy. They fought a good military fight while in retreat and they held their own until the US Troops arrived on the scene.

I saw the inevitable happen as the combined efforts of the US, Korean, and ARVN moved as one against the formerly open city of Hue that the enemy took, and I saw the enemy crumble (They lost fully a Third of their forces). For all of their efforts they never gained a square yard of territory, and the people of South Vietnam never rose up to join with them. They were soundly beaten! And, we had our chance to pursue the enemy across the DMZ and wreck total victory over them, but Westmoreland did not follow up on an opportunity that comes once in a lifetime in a war, and he alone is responsible for the lost of South Vietnam to the North Vietnamese. The war would have been over in a matter of days and countless numbers of American lives would have been saved, but it was an opportunity lost!

Yet, we had the news reporters like Walter Cronkite come on the TV screen proclaiming a victory for the North Vietnamese.

Maybe, war is more in the preception of the socially alliegned, or the want of a lose that clouds the eyes, rather than in the reality of what had occurred after all!

In any case, the US Congress (The Democrat Congress) threw the good citizens of South Vietnam into the clutches of the North Vietnamese. It is no wonder why no one would trust us for the next 40 years! Even now, they try to throw victory away!

I guess the moral of this story is, when you can not beat the USA, go to their Congress and they will give you a victory that you could never have earned!

Joe Carey K 3/7 USMC Chu Lai 65-66

I was home too, not yet in the Army, and I too was perplexed. Not so much because of the reporting of the fight, but at how the enemy could mount such an offensive when we'd been told for years that they were all but defeated.

Remember the so-called light at the end of the tunnel? It seemed to have been extinquished and LBJ, McNamara, Bunker and Westmoreland were left looking like bald-faced liars.

You want to know why the North Vietnamese and VC were able to convert a disastrous military defeat into an overwhelming political victory? Look there, at the previous comments from our leaders about how the war would soon be over and how the enemy was on their last legs. That's the foundation of our ultimate failure in Vietnam, not the media and not Congress.

Truthfully Stillkit, it was not that far a walk from the DMZ to Hue, and the enemy was allowed to go beyond the borders of South Vietnam relatively unmolested. As well, it was a political thing, the Tet Truce was in effect whereby enemy soldiers were not shot at.

Hue was an open city with very few soldiers around it as defense forces, and fewer still during the truce, and for that matter, it was an ARVN area of responsibility.

For the record, these were not VC as a rule, there were the remnabts of the VC there and the VC was effectively out of the war after this one battle, these were North Vietnamese Soldiers direct from North Vietnam for the most part, not from the jungles or the mountains of South Vietnam.

Might I add, the NVA lost approximately 20,000 troops KIA in that failed attack! They never gained a yard of ground for very long, they never got the popular support that they aimed for, the VC were wiped out in that battle, and none of the ARVN Units surrendered or went over to the enemy. They failed in every designed achievement that they hoped for. Could you possibly think of what would have happen in the USA if we lost 20,000 troops in Dead in just one failed battle, and we never schieved one of our goals?

The North Vietnames never once in that war ever matched up with American troops and very rarely matched up with South Vietnamese Troops! They never gain any real estate! They were just not that good compared to us! The only thing that they had going for the was the Leftist VVAW and the US Congress in the USA, and, add to that, the Leftist media!

Respectfully,
Joe Carey

quote:

You want to know why the North Vietnamese and VC were able to convert a disastrous military defeat into an overwhelming political victory? Look there, at the previous comments from our leaders about how the war would soon be over and how the enemy was on their last legs. That's the foundation of our ultimate failure in Vietnam, not the media and not Congress.

YOU EARNED YOUR RIGHT TO AN OPINION...SO DID I.

IN MY OPINION, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

THE FUGGIN LIMP-WRISTED LIBERALS SOLD US OUT BY DAILY DRUMBEATS AGAINST OUR TROOPS AND POLITICAL PRESSURE ON OUR MILITARY LEADERS. I THINK THOSE MEN YOU ARE BLAMING WERE HONORABLE MEN...CAUGHT IN A POLTICAL AMBUSH.

The media played a big role in the Vietnam War.

The Soviets bought and paid for the VVAW, and the Peace Movement, and even Cronkite of the Press, admitted later in his life that he was a Socialist all of his life!

Khrushev said, "We will bury you, and we will do it without firing a shot!"

The USSR invested great sums of money and effort to take control of the American School systems, and the American Universities in the 1950s. These institutions turned out the leaders in Political leanings and educational learning. After all, what better way to take a country then from within?

I grew up in the 50s and the 60s, and the country that I grewup in is no more! Too much government pandering to the minorities in the political side of the issue has changed us severely!

WELL, JOE...WE GOT OUR PROBLEMS AND WE HAVE SOME WARTS AND BLIND SPOTS.

THAT SAID, I STAND READY TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY AND I SAY IT IS STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD DESPITE THE GROWING CHORUS OF NAYSAYERS.

WE VETS OF THE KOREAN AND VIETNAM WARS RAISED THE CHILDREN WHO NOW WILLINGLY VOLUNTEER TO BE A PART OF THE U.S. MILITARY.

IF YOU SAW THE CONTROL OF OUR SCHOOLS AND POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS GO TO THE SOVIETS AND THE PEACENIKS, YOU SAW SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T...IT WAS YOUR PERCEPTION BUT NOT MINE.

ME AMD MY FAMILY WE SMARTER THAN THAT...

quote:

Originally posted by RONCO:
WELL, JOE...WE GOT OUR PROBLEMS AND WE HAVE SOME WARTS AND BLIND SPOTS.

THAT SAID, I STAND READY TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY AND I SAY IT IS STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD DESPITE THE GROWING CHORUS OF NAYSAYERS.

WE VETS OF THE KOREAN AND VIETNAM WARS RAISED THE CHILDREN WHO NOW WILLINGLY VOLUNTEER TO BE A PART OF THE U.S. MILITARY.

IF YOU SAW THE CONTROL OF OUR SCHOOLS AND POLITICAL INSTITUTIONS GO TO THE SOVIETS AND THE PEACENIKS, YOU SAW SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T...IT WAS YOUR PERCEPTION BUT NOT MINE.

ME AMD MY FAMILY WE SMARTER THAN THAT...

In 89, I went back and retreaded at the University of Arizona for a second degree, and one of the course that I was required to take was an economics class, and here was a College prof teaching the glories of the Communist system as opposed to the US System, and in a paper that I had to write, I did write all the things that were taught in the classroom, but my summary of the system was that it lacked initiative, furtherance of careers, and sooner, rather than later, the Soviet system will crumble in on itself.

Not surprisingly, I received an 'F' for the paper, and I took the matter to the Dean. My claim being that the Prof was openly Communists and admittedly was one; that there was nothing wrong with my logic or my presentation for my summary; it was only that I was Anti-communist that I was failed.The outcome was that I was finally given a 'C', even though others in my class thought it was the best paper written.

Now, if someone other than me had received the same marking that was not willing to go the distance to change his or her grade and bring light on this Commie Prof, that person would have surely failed the course, and eventually failed to complete the University.

Seemingly, all the Leftist slants in the classroom received 'A' for work that was not worth the paper it was written on.

Tell me again what you see in the Universities and the school systems.

Do you know that NEA has resolved to not teach about Hitler, nor to teach about Winston Churchill, as anything to do with great importance to WWII?

You don't have to win a country with the force of arms, all you have to do is dumb down the children of a country!

With all the money that we pour into the school systems of this country, the students of the USA are very close to the bottom runs of the ladder in educational achievement, and our voting public has gone from overly conservative to overly Liberal or reformist?

Tell me one more time what it is that you have seen, maybe you are not smarter than all that!

Ronco,
There is no dought that our public school systems have been dumbed down. This is not a political thread so I won't state facts or debate it here.
Our schools have tilted toward value teaching (called Outcomed Based Education)instead of reading, writing, spelling , & math.
Many kids right out of high school have trouble taking the Armed Forces Entrance Exams and passing them.
Many have trouble just making change at Burger King.

I too,"STAND READY TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY AND I SAY IT IS STILL THE BEST IN THE WORLD".
But, we have some serious problems in our schools.
We have thrown millions of dollars at the public school system and got little in results.

Most schools and teachers won't even do the Pledge of Allegiance anymore.

quote:

Tell me again what you see in the Universities and the school systems.

DON'T MIND IF I DO...

I SEE VETERANS ORGANIZATIONS INVOLVED IN PRESENTING THE BALANCED TRUTH...I SEE INDIVIDUAL VETERANS (MYSELF INCLUDED) SPEAKING TO CLASSES ABOUT THE MILITARY AND THEIR FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCES...STUDENTS ASK GOOD QUESTIONS.

I KNOW THE NEA IS A BOTTOM FEEDER, LIBERAL ORG...BUT THE FAIR TEACHERS (SOME ARE VETS THEMSELVES) ALLOW THOSE WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO COME INTO THEIR CLASSROOM AND PROVIDE BALANCE.

YOU WERE SMART ENOUGH TO FIND THE TRUTH...AND TODAY'S STUDENTS WILL DO THE SAME THING!

quote:

Originally posted by RONCO:

quote:

Tell me again what you see in the Universities and the school systems.

DON'T MIND IF I DO...

I SEE VETERANS ORGANIZATIONS INVOLVED IN PRESENTING THE BALANCED TRUTH...I SEE INDIVIDUAL VETERANS (MYSELF INCLUDED) SPEAKING TO CLASSES ABOUT THE MILITARY AND THEIR FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCES...STUDENTS ASK GOOD QUESTIONS.

I KNOW THE NEA IS A BOTTOM FEEDER, LIBERAL ORG...BUT THE FAIR TEACHERS (SOME ARE VETS THEMSELVES) ALLOW THOSE WILLING TO VOLUNTEER TO COME INTO THEIR CLASSROOM AND PROVIDE BALANCE.

YOU WERE SMART ENOUGH TO FIND THE TRUTH...AND TODAY'S STUDENTS WILL DO THE SAME THING!

Strangely enough Major, who do you think are those chief executives of the School systems now? They are the people that opted to forego their Two years in the Armed forces rather than to be drafted into the military during the Vietnam Era, but for the 37 years after the draft ended, they were the teachers of our youth.

When I was in the fourth grade, in the 50s, I was able to write full paragraphs, with all the words being correctly spelt, and i was able to break down the sentences to the different parts of the English Language.

I do not know if you are in business, or you are not, but I was for all these years, and the one horror of my work was to interview new applicants for the positions that I offered for hire.

I would have 'straight A students' come into my office, and, as my business was based largely on the written word and how one transfers what he observed to the printed word, I had a very simple process for the evaluating of applicants.

I would move the young people to a back office, and I would ask that they write of what they had seen, and what means of travel they used, on their way to the office. I would place a dictionary on the desk, and I would tell them to "have at it!"

Even the best of today's students that wanted to work for me could not place two complete sentences together in any recognizable text without multiple errors.

The dumbing down of America is no myth, Major, it is a reality!

When you and I went to school, Major, classes were crowded, school's budgets were poor, and teachers were the most demanding, and unbending, people that could be imagined by today's youths. Not one of them was our friend, least wise so we thought. Later, we found it to be that they were best friends that we ever had; they cared that we were perfect!

Individual school achievement by students have fallen since those days, and it was not a brief fall, but a continuous fall to the bottom. This is not to be blaimed on the students, but to be blamed on the teachers that want to be friendly with the students, and the ACLU that took much of the discipline the self achievement out of the school systems.

Standarized tests without one essay question is the rule of the day. Multiple choice questions test have become the craze, and a test with a 20% of getting the correct answer on a multiple choice questionaire was too had for the students, rather than teach for excellence, the removed two of the answers to give the child a 33% chance of a correct answer.

You posed an interesting point before. The point you made of today's service men and women. Truthfully, they are the best. You will not get an argument out of me on that! But, they are the best because there are fewer of them, and they are not the dropouts and the corner hangers of our day. They want to be a part of the USA, while others just want to be at the Mall!

Differences are these. We had a poplulation of close to 162 Million people in the country way back when we were youths, and the Military had a poplulation of close to Four Million! Today, the population of the country is close to 300 Million, while the military population has been cut again and again to a little closer to Two Million. Competition is more so intense now-a-days then it ever was when we were in, only the best that are willing to go the extra mile are retained. They are very good, and they deserve all the credit they get for doing much more with much less!

It still does not change my remarks about the schooling in the USA. These people we have in the military today are the best because they want to be, and they are willing to go outside the box to learn more than the average student.

Unfortunately, it is Garbage in, Garbage out, in the school systems of today!

Most respectfully,
Joe Carey