I dont mean to upset anyone (as I am not a mason, but currently trying to join a lodge) but what is the differnce between a free mason and a prince hall mason?

All masons are "freemasons", the terms are generally interchangeable.

The topic of prince hall masonry is very large and difficult to condense into a short response, I suggest that you visit the following links.

http://bessel.org/masrec/phalinks.htm

and

http://www.princehall.org/

If you have not yet found a lodge, I will be more than glad to assist you in locating a lodge, where you can submit a petition.

Just send your contact information to me at

charles.martin20@us.army.mil

quote:

Originally posted by saber519d:
I dont mean to upset anyone (as I am not a mason, but currently trying to join a lodge) but what is the differnce between a free mason and a prince hall mason?

No harm done. In reply, let me say that a Freemason and a Prince Hall Mason are one in the same. This is because a Mason is a Mason and we are all brothers. That is the simple answer. Anyway, there are also Scottish Rite Masons, York Rite Masons, (Royal Arch Masons, Cryptic Masons) etc. Asking this question would be like asking a person if he or she is a Christian and then asking him or her, why they are so many different denominations of Christianity. While there are differences between denominations, a Christian is still a Christian regardless of what denomination they belong to. I hope that I did not offend anyone, but that is a simple answer to a simple question.
Fraternally,
/s/
Terry, PM
Freemason
Hot Topics Moderator

Prince hall has a great history and it's mainly for this that it is so popular today. There are White PHA Masons and Black "Mainstream" Masons. It is a common misconception that there is a racial divide in Masonry. The divide which exists is more due to "policy and procedure" than to race in general. The arguement being in some circles that the charter of PHA Masonry is not valid because it was not renewed by the United Grand Lodge of England some 200+ years ago. That is also a falsehood {it was renewed and is the oldest charter in America}. Masonry is very strict with it's regulations and edicts, and clings to history {not undeservedly} with a vice-like grip. Any percieved variation is cause for some Grand Lodges to disassociate with another over a seemingly minor deviance. There very recently was a Worshipfull Master from West Africa who became so in a Lodge in North Carolina {Does not currently recognize Prince Hall}. I would like to see a change in Prince Hall so that brothers from other Grand Lodges can become dual members. Currently as far as I know this isnt possible. I would love to sit in a PHA Lodge as a full member.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nateljen80,

quote:

Originally posted by saber519d:
I dont mean to upset anyone (as I am not a mason, but currently trying to join a lodge) but what is the differnce between a free mason and a prince hall mason?

The purpose of this letter is not an exhaustive defense of Freemasonry, because none is required. Rather, it is to explain the goals of the organization within the context of recent comments. Indeed, the institution of Freemasonry is not above criticism simply because it is a human institution and like all such institutions, imperfect and open to improvement. Criticize us if you wish, but more importantly, continue your examination of our fraternity. We certainly have nothing to hide and are justifiably proud of our ancient heritage. Freemasonry is a unique institution, generating a deep loyalty among its members and an equally great misunderstanding among non-members. We realize that it may be difficult for those with strong religious and moral convictions to believe that a group of men meeting behind closed doors could be doing anything good. And yet, that is precisely the work we are pursuing. Good work, based on the teachings of the Holy Bible, that takes good men and makes them better men, husbands, fathers, sons and brothers. Incredible, isn’t it---that there is still an organization dedicated to the encouragement of religious, family and civic values? And yet, this is exactly what we have been doing since the middle ages when we were a fraternity of operative stone workers with a heritage dating back to biblical times based on a solid foundation of a belief in the same God who created all of us. Tolerance is one of the major underlying principles of Freemasonry. Freemasonry teaches its followers tolerance even of its assailants. The standard Masonic response to detractors has historically been to ignore critics and turn the other cheek to those who speak ill of the craft, preferring to let them wallow in their own misunderstanding of our fraternity and gentle craft. As Masons, are astonished and perplexed at the level of hatred directed toward us supposedly in the name of God. This willful fraud does not serve God or man constructively, but instead reinforces the powers of evil; against which mankind must continually struggle. Using the name of God as a justification for a so-called holy mission against the “evils” of Freemasonry is probably one of the best definitions of the word “blasphemy”. Each and every comment about the evils of Freemasonry works against God’s holy teachings, because all Masons hold God in the highest reverence and trust Him above all else. We have no hidden agenda, no treasures, no idols and no pagan rituals. What goes on in our lodge rooms are only labors designed to improve the moral character and lives of our members---nothing else. Within our fraternity, no one person can speak for Freemasonry. Certainly our Grand Master can speak with authority on organizational matters within his jurisdiction, but no Mason can speak for another Mason or Masonry as a whole when it comes to the meaning of our religious teachings. This is because we lead each man as an individual to the Holy Scriptures, whatever his beliefs in a Supreme Being, and ask that he lead his life by the teachings he finds in those pages as he finds them there. We trust that he WILL find them and employ them through diligent prayer and application in his daily life. Maybe it is because we do not allow prostylization in our lodge rooms, preferring instead to let each brother cleave to the faith of his choice and practice it to the best of his ability. I believe any critic of Freemasonry need to take a closer look at the fraternity without any preconceptions or prejudices. If they do, they will see there is nothing to fear and little to criticize about what we believe. It is frighteningly true that the repeated attacks on the fraternity proves that it is being put on trial by the self-righteous extremists who hold little patience or tolerance for the moderate views of their fellow man. So Mote It Be.

Fraternally submitted,
/s/
Terry, Past Master
Freemason
U.S. Army (Ret.)
Hot Topics Moderator

Very eloquent and well stated Wor. Bro Terry

I've been a member of both a California lodge and A Prince Hall lodge. The only difference was Prince Hall, Ancient Free and accepted masons and California, Free and accepted masons. Part of the ritual was different but the meaning is the same.
For example AFAM Might say the Sun raises in the East, and FAM might say in the east the sun raises.
Bryan

quote:

Originally posted by USNGunner1:
I've been a member of both a California lodge and A Prince Hall lodge. The only difference was Prince Hall, Ancient Free and accepted masons and California, Free and accepted masons. Part of the ritual was different but the meaning is the same. For example AFAM Might say the Sun raises in the East, and FAM might say in the east the sun raises.
Bryan

All Prince Hall Affiliated Lodges are F&AM not AF&AM.

To the best of my knowledge, while prince hall Masons are acknowledged to be brothers, there can only be one grand lodge per jurisdiction. So until such lodges recognise the grand lodge of their prospective state/province as their grand lodge, there will always be friction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by 88bdeNYG:
To the best of my knowledge, while prince hall Masons are acknowledged to be brothers, there can only be one grand lodge per jurisdiction. So until such lodges recognise the grand lodge of their prospective state/province as their grand lodge, there will always be friction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In reply, without saying that you are right or wrong is not the point. In fact, many states have joint recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges. While the subject can be controversial, the facts reflect the reality of the situation. The following chart/map showing recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges is in fact true. This should answer the question, but it also raises many more too numerous to mention or discuss for they would be controversial discussions. (See attached chart maps and draw you own conclusions).

http://bessel.org/masrec/phamapshistorical.htm

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry T. PM
Hot Topics Moderator

quote:

Originally posted by TerryTCT:

quote:

Originally posted by 88bdeNYG:
To the best of my knowledge, while prince hall Masons are acknowledged to be brothers, there can only be one grand lodge per jurisdiction. So until such lodges recognise the grand lodge of their prospective state/province as their grand lodge, there will always be friction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In reply, without saying that you are right or wrong is not the point. In fact, many states have joint recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges. While the subject can be controversial, the facts reflect the reality of the situation. The following chart/map showing recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges is in fact true. This should answer the question, but it also raises many more too numerous to mention or discuss for they would be controversial discussions. (See attached chart maps and draw you own conclusions).

http://bessel.org/masrec/phamapshistorical.htm

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry T. PM
Hot Topics Moderator

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TerryTCT,

quote:

Originally posted by 5727609:
Upon reading only some of your masonic rules I must ask a question. If a "rule" states that a member may NOT discuss "religion" and/or politics it seems only reasonable to request that the complete fraternal society remove from it's altar(s) everywhere the Word of God (Bible) and remove the big G from your logo or perhaps the rule is some sort of hypocracy.

Thanx in advance for your time in explanation.

Also Terry, the way you avoid declaring something "right or "wrong" seems to qualify you for some sort of gummunt office.

One of the 3 requirements to join Freemasonry is to have a belief in a Supreme Being, also...who says the G stands for God?

The rule about not discussing Religion/politics in the lodge is because Freemasonry is made up of many types of religions and politics, so to stop any arguements from happening it's proper to not speak about the subjects.

Kinda like seperation of church and state, except in Freemasonry we seperate the Lodge from church and state.

quote:

Originally posted by 5727609:
Also Terry, the way you avoid declaring something "right or "wrong" seems to qualify you for some sort of gummunt office.

In reply, no defense of the fraternity of Free and Accepted Masons in necessary. Making negative comments qualifies you for a time out. Your pink slip is in the mail.

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry, Past Master
Freemason
Hot Topics Moderator

quote:

Originally posted by 88bdeNYG:
To the best of my knowledge, while prince hall Masons are acknowledged to be brothers, there can only be one grand lodge per jurisdiction. So until such lodges recognise the grand lodge of their prospective state/province as their grand lodge, there will always be friction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct in your assumption. Because there can be only ONE Grand Lodge in any jurisdiction, any others are considered "Clandestine". Prince Hall are not recognized as Masons in the Valley of Philadelphia for example, however there are several blacks in my lodge so the assumption that the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania holds Prince Hall to be clandestine because of racial issues is just plain false.

Things are changing. Many (but not all) Grand Lodges in the USA, are recognizing Prince Hall Masons, and affording them full recognition. The Grand Lodge of New York (F&AM) recognizes New York Prince Hall, and there is full communications. New York also recognizes Prince Hall Masonry in all other states, where the "mainstream" Grand Lodge has recognition.

The future is hard to predict, but it is a vitual certainty, that more Grand Lodges will move to recognize more Prince Hall Grand Lodges in the near future.

So Mote it Be!

I can't wait untill the day when all of us here can actually sit in a lodge room together without looking back over our shoulders in fear.

One day my brothers, we will all dwell together in unity.

So mote it be!!

quote:

Originally posted by SigNuCoastie:
I can't wait untill the day when all of us here can actually sit in a lodge room together without looking back over our shoulders in fear.

One day my brothers, we will all dwell together in unity.

So mote it be!!

Well said Brother!

"Resolution of Mutual Recognition of the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina and Its Jurisdictions, Inc. by the Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Ancient Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina
WHEREAS, The Most Worshipful Grand Lodge of Ancient, Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina (hereinafter The Grand Lodge) desires to insure a continuing harmonious relationship between it and the Most Worshipful Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina and its Jurisdictions, Inc. (hereinafter The Prince Hall Grand Lodge); to provide for the successful coexistence of both Grand Lodges and to promote Masonry in general among all peoples; AND

WHEREAS, The Grand Lodge, for all the reasons set out in Brother James G. Martin’s statement to The Grand Lodge dated September 29, 2001, believes that it is altogether right and proper and in the best interests of Masonry everywhere and particularly in North Carolina that these two Grand Lodges exercising Masonic jurisdiction in this state mutually recognize each other while each retains its own autonomy and jurisdiction hereafter as heretofore; AND

WHEREAS, The Grand Lodge is satisfied that The Prince Hall Grand Lodge meets all Masonic requirements for recognition; AND

WHEREAS, The Grand Lodge desires to remain autonomous within its jurisdiction and to operate hereafter as heretofore with its own Grand Master and other Grand Lodge Officers, Constitution, By-Laws, Ritual, Rules and Regulations, and to retain its absolute and supreme sovereignty over its own Subordinate Lodges and Membership; AND

WHEREAS, The Grand Lodge is advised that The Prince Hall Grand Lodge entertains the same desires and possesses the same satisfaction with regard to recognition by it of The Grand Lodge and desires that both Grand Lodges mutually recognize each other as duly constituted Masonic Grand Lodges; AND

WHEREAS, The Grand Lodge is advised that The Prince Hall Grand Lodge at its Annual Communication in 2004 passed a resolution extending fraternal recognition to The Grand Lodge in the same manner and on the same terms as the present resolution,

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE MOST WORSHIPFUL GRAND LODGE OF ANCIENT, FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS OF NORTH CAROLINA THAT:

1. It hereby extends fraternal recognition to The Prince Hall Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of North Carolina and Its Jurisdictions, Inc., as a duly constituted Masonic Grand Lodge;

2. It will remain autonomous within its jurisdiction and will operate hereafter as heretofore with its own Grand Master and other Grand Lodge Officers, Constitution, ByLaws, Ritual, Rules and Regulations and will retain its absolute and supreme sovereignty over its own Subordinate Lodges and Membership."

Did that pass or is it proposed?

The Grand Lodge of NC passed the legislation some weeks ago. North Carolina now has full recognition with Prince Hall Masonry in North Carolina.

About 38 or 39 states, have recognition between their F&AM masonry and Prince Hall Masonry. Some of the remanining states are considering recognition.

Good to hear, hopefully this passing south of the Mason-Dixon line will help convince the others down there to join the modern era

As a non-member is it permissable to support the lodges in my area? I currently reside in Junction city,KS.
For years I have seen the positive influence of the "Craft" in many civilian and soldiers lives. Esp. in direction and brotherhood. Something that is sorely lacking in this 'new' generation.

quote:

Originally posted by charleslennon:
As a non-member is it permissable to support the lodges in my area? I currently reside in Junction city,KS.
For years I have seen the positive influence of the "Craft" in many civilian and soldiers lives. Esp. in direction and brotherhood. Something that is sorely lacking in this 'new' generation.

In Reply: Yes, providing you are not going into a "Tyled Lodge," unless you produce a Masonic Dues/membership card and belong to a lodge that the Grand Lodge of that jurisdiction recognizes and finally pass a due examination. When in doubt, contact the Grand Lodge of the states you are in. Specifically, the Grand Lodge of Kansas. You can visit them by finding them through a search engine. Good Luck.

Sincerely,
/s/
Terry, PM
Hot Topics Moderator

quote:

Originally posted by 5727609:
Upon reading only some of your masonic rules I must ask a question. If a "rule" states that a member may NOT discuss "religion" and/or politics it seems only reasonable to request that the complete fraternal society remove from it's altar(s) everywhere the Word of God (Bible) and remove the big G from your logo or perhaps the rule is some sort of hypocracy.

Thanx in advance for your time in explanation.

Also Terry, the way you avoid declaring something "right or "wrong" seems to qualify you for some sort of gummunt office.

When I was a young brother, I was taught that the “G” in Masonry stands for Geometry, and not for God.

http://www.rosslyntemplars.org.uk/symbolism.htm

http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/texts/theletterg.html

Fraternally, and Sincerely,

John

quote:

Originally posted by 5727609:

quote:

Originally posted by TerryTCT:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 88bdeNYG:
To the best of my knowledge, while prince hall Masons are acknowledged to be brothers, there can only be one grand lodge per jurisdiction. So until such lodges recognise the grand lodge of their prospective state/province as their grand lodge, there will always be friction. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

In reply, without saying that you are right or wrong is not the point. In fact, many states have joint recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges. While the subject can be controversial, the facts reflect the reality of the situation. The following chart/map showing recognition of Prince Hall Grand Lodges is in fact true. This should answer the question, but it also raises many more too numerous to mention or discuss for they would be controversial discussions. (See attached chart maps and draw you own conclusions).

http://bessel.org/masrec/phamapshistorical.htm

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry T. PM
Hot Topics Moderator

------------
From cemab4y
-----------

The custom and tradition of Freemasonry is that discussions of politics and religion are "taboo" in lodge meetings. This is to ensure that peace and harmony prevail. This applies only to the actual meeting. After adjournment, members are free to discuss anything they wish.

Although discussions of religion are taboo in lodge, the thought and presence of the Supreme Architect of the Universe, is very much present. Lodges are erected to God, and dedicated to the Holy Saints John (John the Baptist, and John the Revelator). The Holy Bible is open on the altar, in the central point of the lodge, because the Holy Bible is God's last and most inestimable gift to mankind.

The "G" in the center of the masonic logo, and it is there because God is the center of Masonry.

Hope this explanation helps.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TerryTCT,

I read most of the messages about PHA and Free Maons. The good news is that some GL's recongnizes PHA. I am not sure about the GL's who does not recognize PHA.
When your GL recognize PHA. I would attend going to thier meeetings and in return they will attend your meetings.

quote:

Originally posted by cemab4y:

Although discussions of religion are taboo in lodge, the thought and presence of the Supreme Architect of the Universe, is very much present. Lodges are erected to God, and dedicated to the Holy Saints John (John the Baptist, and John the Revelator). The Holy Bible is open on the altar, in the central point of the lodge, because the Holy Bible is God's last and most inestimable gift to mankind.

The "G" in the center of the Masonic logo, and it is there because God is the center of Masonry.

Here is the explaination of the letter "G" as noted in the lecture:

My brother, we have now arrived at a place representing the Middle Chamber of King Solomon's Temple. Behold the letter "G" suspended in the East; it is the initial letter of "Geometry," the first and noblest of sciences.

The letter "G" is displayed in the lodge room, quite often intertwined with the square and compasses above the Worshipful Master's chair. However, the ritual practice in some jurisdictions is such that the letter "G" does not mean God, it does not mean "Geometry." In Ancient work, the letter "G" also stands for both "Geometry and God," as outlined in the Second or FC Degree.

It is hard to draw a conclusion, except to say that the "G" originally meant "Geometry" and, gradually, when the new Second Degree was established in the eighteenth century and when the needs of the Craft required, the letter "G" also came to represent "God," although the original Geometrical meaning has never disappeared, at least in Masonic degree work. There is no "A" in the First Degree work to denote the Great Architect, nor is there an "M" or an "H" in the Third Degree work to denote Most High, but somewhere along the line the letter "G" started to stand for, not just Geometry, but also the Grand Geometrician of the Universe ("God") and that is how the ritual has evolved.

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry, PM
Hot Topics Moderator

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TerryTCT,

quote:

See attached chart maps and draw you own conclusions

I checked the chart and found a glowing error. West Virginia was not a "claimed CSA state." The very reason West Virginia became a state is because they refused to separate from the Union. They petetioned for statehood and it was granted, thus West Virginia became a state June 20, 1863. I have been a Mason since October 4, 1964 and am a member of Salina Lodge 27 located in Malden West Virgina. Originally Chartered by the Grand Lodge of Virginia December 11, A.L. 5827(1827). Rechartered by the Grand Lodge of West Virginia January 24, A.L. 5867 (1867).
My Great Great Grandfather was a member of the West Virginia 7th Cavalry during the Civil War. He saw combat during the Civil War and in fact took his brother in law prisoner, for aiding the enemy Confederate forces.
The area known as West Virginia was never known as a slave state.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveBarker:

quote:

See attached chart maps and draw you own conclusions

I checked the chart and found a glowing error. West Virginia was not a "claimed CSA state." The very reason West Virginia became a state is because they refused to separate from the Union. They petetioned for statehood and it was granted, thus West Virginia became a state June 20, 1863. I have been a Mason since October 4, 1964 and am a member of Salina Lodge 27 located in Malden West Virgina. Originally Chartered by the Grand Lodge of Virginia December 11, A.L. 5827(1827). Rechartered by the Grand Lodge of West Virginia January 24, A.L. 5867 (1867).
My Great Great Grandfather was a member of the West Virginia 7th Cavalry during the Civil War. He saw combat during the Civil War and in fact took his brother in law prisoner, for aiding the enemy Confederate forces.
The area known as West Virginia was never known as a slave state.

This is good to know. However, WV does not recognize Prince Hall Lodges. I know first hand after having visited a blue lodge in WV and having spoken to the brethren there. Given what you mentioned, WV brethren cannot say as this one brother indicated that some men are not "Freeborne," that is why they do not recognize PH lodges in WV. I still take exception to this even though there is a misinterpretation of "Freeborne."

Fraternally,
/s/
Terry, PM
Freemason
Hot Topics Moderator

Interesting discussion. At the present time, the Grand Lodge of WV, does not recognize Prince Hall Masonry. WV has been having some serious problems, including expelling one of their past Grand Masters!

It depends on your view of history. The state known as West Virginia, was originally part of the state of Virginia, prior to its partition during the war between the states. When the western counties petitioned for statehood, the area currently known as West Virginia, was admitted to the union as a free (non-slave) state.

Kentucky was also part of the state of Virginia, prior to 1792. Kentucky (district) of Virginia, was admitted to the union as the 15th state (Vermont was 14th). Freemasonry was organized in Kentucky (district) under the authority of the Grand Lodge of Virginia. The first lodge in Kentucky was Lexington lodge #25. After statehood, when the Grand Lodge of Kentucky was organized, Lexington #25, became Lexington lodge #1 (Grand Lodge of Kentucky).

The other state, that was admitted to the union, as a result of the war between the states, was Nevada. The federal government wanted access to the silver produced in Nevada's mines. In order to get the admission process completed quickly, the entire state constitution of Nevada, was telegraphed to Washington DC, prior to the outbreak of hostilities in 1861. The state flag of Nevada carries the words "Battle Born" .