I'm starting this one as a place for SAI's to swap stories, lessons learned and best practices. Also for non-SAI's to ask questions and recieve a wider range of advice.

I'll start off with this quasi-sea story.

Back in the early '90s, my last police department did not have a proper shotgun course of fire. Three of us were reserve Coasties, two of us were department firearms instructors. Bob and I proposed the the old CG Shotgun course as our new department course of fire, and the department adopted it.

One of our officers (Officer C) qualified on the course, during which Bob and I stressed that when firing buck shot at 25 yards, hold the bead sight on the belt line, as the pattern will rise in a vertical eliptical pattern in the target.

What we forgot to stress was raising the bead sight to center mass as the shooter moved closer to the target.

Officer C ended up getting into a shoot-out later that day with a guy that had disarmed another department officer and had fired shots at officers and medical staff in the psychiatric hospital the guy (patient) had been brought into. The patient was 6'3" and had been as heavy as 270 lbs.

Officer C arrived with a shotgun and subsequently ordered the armed patient to drop the weapon; the patient fired at Officer C and a second officer from a neighboring department. Officer C fired the shotgun, aiming as he had done on the range earlier that day. The distance was about twenty feet. The first round struck the patient right at the belt line. The patient made an "OOOF" sound and started moving towards the officers, firing again (the officer from the neighboring department, a firearms instructor there, had fired his Glock 17, loaded with Silvertip hollowpoints, three times, striking the patient all three times).

Officer C fired a second time, this time center mass, but the patient had zigged and the pellets went passed his left shoulder harmlessly. Officer C fired his third round, striking the patient, who now had zagged, in the right arm. This caused the patient to cry out and fall to the ground right at the doorway where the two oficers were standing. The patient fired another round through the door at the officers which went between them and struck the wall behind them.

Officer C reached around the door and pointed the shotgun at the patient's head, but could not bring himself to kill the man. He instead put the muzzle on the patient's butt cheek and blew a hole in it the size of a fist. The patient screamed and dropped the revolver, which still had one live round in it.

The patient had been hit with three OO buck shot rounds and ten 9MM rounds from the Glock (the neighboring officer hit the patient 10 out of 10 times).

There were no heart, lung, spinal column, or head shots.

The patient was found not guilty by reason of insanity of three counts of attempted murder and one count of disarming a police officer.

The moral of this story is make sure, as an instructor, that you cover everything on the range that you need to cover because the folks you train will do out in the fleet what they learned on the range.

As an afterthought, this may be doubly important when dealing with instructing the RSC and less than lethal munitions (especially the fin-stabilized slugs).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: JerryG,

quote:

The moral of this story is make sure, as an instructor, that you cover everything on the range that you need to cover because the folks you train will do out in the fleet what they learned on the range.

Absolutely, How often have we seen new shooters doing dumb things because we forgot to cover every little thing?

I remember when the new 870's were first coming online I had one shooter try to line up the ACOG red dot with the fromt sight. That one is now a standard part of my pre-fires.

Be safe!

quote:

Originally posted by CG_GunnersM8:
I remember when the new 870's were first coming online I had one shooter try to line up the ACOG red dot with the fromt sight. That one is now a standard part of my pre-fires.

same here execpt the coaches or i didnt see him do it until after his first round

That couldn't have ended well.....

Ah, good times at the range. Lets see I remember seeing a LT answer his cell phone while shooting PPC, and a MK2 try and light a smoke while shooting basic rifle in the prone position. You never know what your gonna see when you go to the range.

As for what I tell my shooters, first and foremost, I am the instructor, no matter what someone elses rate or rank, I am in charge. Secondly, shooting is simple. Follow the rules of marksmanship to a "T", and you will qualify, I promise.

Being a certified SAI for nearly 8 years now, I can honestly say that it is a very rewarding job and the most THANKLESS job in the entire USCG. There is no qualification badge unlike the pitchfork that any MST duckscrubber can attain. SAI school has been considered one of the most challenging schools next to AST and MLB school...and this was told to me by coasties who were both. Recognition would and should be considered. Bravo Zulu to all SAI's!

quote:

There is no qualification badge unlike the pitchfork that any MST duckscrubber can attain.

Why are so many people so enthralled with badges, patches, etc.? Do you really need to wear a resume on your uniform? Can't you just find satisfaction knowing you are doing a job well?

I find it hard to believe SAI school is in the same league as AST school too.

I always considered having to provide small arms straining to be a pain in the butt considering the other tasks I had to perform.

The only SAI story I have is second hand. It involves my "a" school roommate. In his mind he was God's gift to the GM rate. He was going to be the honor grad. He was going to be the first GM MCPOCG. So on and so forth.

Anyway after he graduated, the man, the myth, the legend was firing the PPC and forgot the finger off the trigger part when he holstered his M9. You can imagine the result.

On a side note he barely passed "a" school.

282- You quoted my post but anything you added didn't make it. Were you replying?

-many years ago, I was present on range when another "service" was there to shoot .45 Basic Course. The shooters were on the line and commence fire whistle was blown. Shooters shot several rounds and a cease fire whistle followed. The SAI issued the command: "shooters, check your weapons"
(insert visual here)
Young man draws weapon back, finger on trigger, round in pipe, safety up/off and proceeds to look *DOWN THE BARREL*!
-I secured the range and informed the SAI that the training day was over!

-----------------------------------------------

Another incident/same service...many years ago:
I walked into the class room area (yes, here at Tracen) only to stumble accross a lad coming out of the male head with his M-16 in hand. He appeared distraut and sweating.

Training was secured and the range was closed!

-----------------------------------------------

-given enough time, I promise you will see things on the range (be it your folks or someone elses) that make you hit the "Whiskey Tango" button!

-Be safe and know that there's a reason we try to teach the classes the way we do! Most life lessons are written in either someone's blood or a pile of used collar devices!

Regards,
GMCS

This one time at Camp Perry (Ohio, range is beside a wooded hunting area), some hunters from "Pheasants forever" swore we were shooting our M2's at them and they were buddies with the Ohio congressman who got us banned from the base for a year.

Of course we had our stops pounded in the ground so our weapons would not train in their direction!

Nothing like taking your buds out to Stargaven and going through a couple thousand rounds of M16, 45, 38 and shotgun ammo. Almost as good as running up the beach looking for glass fishing balls, or a chance to drive for a while.
We were sight seeing by helo the inner passage of so east Alaska long before it became a very popular and expensive past time.
I dodged a lot of bullets by teaching very dedicated and safety conscious airmen.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: asm3driscoll,

Bragging time....

My son was just named Firearms Instructor of the Year for the entire state of Arizona.

I have a nice 1st place pistol trophy from my 3 weeks spent at SAI school in Yorktown.

Congrats on your sons accomplishments Stan.

Pumpkin on a post,

Dick

In '94, another PSU-type and I got orders from our PSU to attend the FBI Basic SWAT Course at GL NTC. John and I were able to get a case of 9MM ammo at a decent price (that was part of the deal: the CG would send us and pay for our time at the course if we provided the weapons and ammo). The only problem was I didn't own a 9MM back then, and ended up borrowing a Glock 17 (John already owned one, and thought I should get one so we were "uniform").

I went through the whole course with a borrowed gun and ended up walking away with the Top Shooter award at the end of the week.

Prior to that course, I didn't care for the Glock pistol at all. That week opened my eyes.

To Ex CG GM:It is safe to assume that if so many people are enthralled with pathces and badges maybe it should be considered? The other branches of service adorn patches/badges as a sign of acheievement, espirit de corps, and pride. What is wrong with that? If the other 4 branches of service are atute with their badges then maybe or great service should reconsider WHY we do not have them!

SAI is difficult but I am well aware that AST school is in a league of it's own. I was just stating what schools are difficult in the Coast Guard.

Judging how you described small arms training as a " pain in the butt" maybe you could have used a badge to establish some pride of your own.

quote:

Judging how you described small arms training as a " pain in the butt" maybe you could have used a badge to establish some pride of your own.

Badges? We didn't need no stinkin' badges....if it takes badges and ribbons to make you feel good about yourself then you may have a self esteem problem.

I served with a BM that had been in the CG through all of WW II. Even at personnel inspections he wore zero ribbons. Always got dinged for it, but since he had known most Captains and Admirals when they were Ensigns they always cut him slack.

Small arms basically bore me. Always have and always will. I preferred working on the 5", the 81mm's, 40mm's, .50's., the torpedos, etc.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ex_CG_GM,