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billbright
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Picture of billbright
Posted
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
 
Posts: 5704 | Registered: Tue 13 March 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
reducetension
Experienced Member
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Perhaps there should be a comma after "So" with an exclamation mark after God?
“So, (slight pause…) help me God!” Like a plea rather than an "oath"?

Seriously, I do believe officers can also op out on the 'god' talk if they wish to. A couple of officers I've talked with (who are atheists of the mild sort) just ignore it as part of the prater of culture. After all, we know there is no god listening to anything humans think they are directing their talk to in the invisible world.
 
Posts: 3692 | Registered: Fri 07 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
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First the Orginal post is the enlisted oath
Second the God talk was not added until 1862.

http://www.history.army.mil/faq/oaths.htm

quote:
The first oath under the Constitution was approved by Act of Congress 29 September 1789 (Sec. 3, Ch. 25, 1st Congress). It applied to all commissioned officers, noncommissioned officers and privates in the service of the United States. It came in two parts, the first of which read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the constitution of the United States." The second part read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) to bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully, against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and to observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States of America, and the orders of the officers appointed over me." The next section of that chapter specified that "the said troops shall be governed by the rules and articles of war, which have been established by the United States in Congress assembled, or by such rules and articles of war as may hereafter by law be established."

Text of the Oath
quote:

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


Note that the So help me God is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection since Article Six of the United States Constitution requires that there be no religious test for public office.
 
Posts: 11193 | Registered: Wed 02 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
reducetension
Experienced Member
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Right. It's not done for the non-existent gods, it done for existing superstitious humans! Just theater. The script of the pretend word of drama.
 
Posts: 3692 | Registered: Fri 07 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
billbright
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quote:
Originally posted by rayld2:
First the Orginal post is the enlisted oath
Second the God talk was not added until 1862.

http://www.history.army.mil/faq/oaths.htm

quote:
The first oath under the Constitution was approved by Act of Congress 29 September 1789 (Sec. 3, Ch. 25, 1st Congress). It applied to all commissioned officers, noncommissioned officers and privates in the service of the United States. It came in two parts, the first of which read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the constitution of the United States." The second part read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) to bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully, against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and to observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States of America, and the orders of the officers appointed over me." The next section of that chapter specified that "the said troops shall be governed by the rules and articles of war, which have been established by the United States in Congress assembled, or by such rules and articles of war as may hereafter by law be established."

Text of the Oath
quote:

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


Note that the So help me God is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection since Article Six of the United States Constitution requires that there be no religious test for public office.


That's sort of like optional nudity at a "clothing required" beach, isn't it? You'd stick out like a woody. And, who actually knows these things going in? You show up, and they tell you what to say.
 
Posts: 5704 | Registered: Tue 13 March 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by billbright:
quote:
Originally posted by rayld2:
First the Orginal post is the enlisted oath
Second the God talk was not added until 1862.

http://www.history.army.mil/faq/oaths.htm

quote:
The first oath under the Constitution was approved by Act of Congress 29 September 1789 (Sec. 3, Ch. 25, 1st Congress). It applied to all commissioned officers, noncommissioned officers and privates in the service of the United States. It came in two parts, the first of which read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) that I will support the constitution of the United States." The second part read: "I, A.B., do solemnly swear or affirm (as the case may be) to bear true allegiance to the United States of America, and to serve them honestly and faithfully, against all their enemies or opposers whatsoever, and to observe and obey the orders of the President of the United States of America, and the orders of the officers appointed over me." The next section of that chapter specified that "the said troops shall be governed by the rules and articles of war, which have been established by the United States in Congress assembled, or by such rules and articles of war as may hereafter by law be established."

Text of the Oath
quote:

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)


Note that the So help me God is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection since Article Six of the United States Constitution requires that there be no religious test for public office.


That's sort of like optional nudity at a "clothing required" beach, isn't it? You'd stick out like a woody. And, who actually knows these things going in? You show up, and they tell you what to say.
Well I don't know about you but I knew and I think almost all my relatives that joined knew (and we are all Christians). I think even the ones taking the Officer's oath knew. Smile
 
Posts: 11193 | Registered: Wed 02 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
BobApril
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I knew - but in the mass oath-taking when I enlisted I don't think anyone noticed that I remained silent for those last four words. For at least one of my reenlistments, the re-up NCO asked me my preference without prompting, and had no problem when I chose to leave God out of it. Of course, YMMV.
 
Posts: 1283 | Registered: Thu 21 September 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
all4truth


"a seeker of the TRUTH always!"
Posted Hide Post
Rayld2,

Your dates are off.

As I read the page on the link you shared the "So help me God" was in the Officer oath on 21 October 1776.

The enlisted were pledging to obey the orders of those placed over them.

Just to be clear. Let me know if I misread something somewhere.

LJ
 
Posts: 1482 | Registered: Sun 30 December 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
reducetension
Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by all4truth:
Rayld2,

Your dates are off.

As I read the page on the link you shared the "So help me God" was in the Officer oath on 21 October 1776.

The enlisted were pledging to obey the orders of those placed over them.

Just to be clear. Let me know if I misread something somewhere.

LJ


Of course this is an oath taken by men who have probably just betrayed the legitimate authority of the Head of the Church of England King George III, to whom they also had a similar oath, including George Washington.
 
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AKinNC
Member
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I am reminded of the George Burns movie 'Oh, God'. George (God) is being sworn in to testify, and he promises to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me, me!
 
Posts: 1118 | Registered: Mon 21 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
thorin001
Sarcastic Member
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And if you check the Presidential oath in the Constitution, the one that all the others are based on, you will see that there is no mention of supernatural beings.
 
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billbright
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I don't remember if I ever said it. Maybe. If I did, I take it back. ;-)
 
Posts: 5704 | Registered: Tue 13 March 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
reducetension
Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by billbright:
I don't remember if I ever said it. Maybe. If I did, I take it back. ;-)


You mean you recant now?
I remember it, I didn’t say it and I insisted that NONE go on my dog tag for religious preference, and that was 45 years ago!
 
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billbright
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Forty-five years ago, when I signed up, I was a Christian. It wouldn't have bothered me then.

It's a little like all the other military traditions that don't make a lick of sense. For instance, a person must surrender his or her citizenship and submit to a different set of laws to be a member of the military... even in peace time... to protect the rights of others to remain free. Or... in a day and age when lice can be controlled by so many other methods we still get buzzed. Or taking your hat off immediately when entering a building and slapping it on the instant you hit the exit. Or standing at attention, parade rest, or wtf ever. Or uniforms of the day. Or saluting. Or "Yes, sir." Or rank. Or gig lines. Or spit-polish. Or....
 
Posts: 5704 | Registered: Tue 13 March 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by all4truth:
Rayld2,

Your dates are off.

As I read the page on the link you shared the "So help me God" was in the Officer oath on 21 October 1776.

The enlisted were pledging to obey the orders of those placed over them.

Just to be clear. Let me know if I misread something somewhere.

LJ
all4truth in case you are not aware of the US history involved 1776 is BEFORE the US Constitution. I quoted
quote:
The first oath under the Constitution was approved by Act of Congress 29 September 1789
 
Posts: 11193 | Registered: Wed 02 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
all4truth


"a seeker of the TRUTH always!"
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by rayld2:
quote:
Originally posted by all4truth:
Rayld2,

Your dates are off.

As I read the page on the link you shared the "So help me God" was in the Officer oath on 21 October 1776.

The enlisted were pledging to obey the orders of those placed over them.

Just to be clear. Let me know if I misread something somewhere.

LJ
all4truth in case you are not aware of the US history involved 1776 is BEFORE the US Constitution. I quoted
quote:
The first oath under the Constitution was approved by Act of Congress 29 September 1789


Yep,

I knew that. But from where I sit, 1776 comes before 1789. Whether in the constitution on a notepad that everybody signed, such as the declaration of independence which also predates the constitution.

Many of the signers were still around and maybe someone said we left something out that was there back in the days of war that got us independence, so let's put it back. Nothing in the post or history let's us know what they discussed (in the back halls).

My original point was and is, your statement above leads the reader to believe that the first time 'So help me God' appeared in the oath was 1789. So your post is not the whole truth.

LJ
 
Posts: 1482 | Registered: Sun 30 December 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
all4truth


"a seeker of the TRUTH always!"
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by reducetension:
quote:
Originally posted by billbright:
I don't remember if I ever said it. Maybe. If I did, I take it back. ;-)


You mean you recant now?
I remember it, I didn’t say it and I insisted that NONE go on my dog tag for religious preference, and that was 45 years ago!


Hi ReduceTension,

So you have been this way for a long time?

Very interesting,

LJ
 
Posts: 1482 | Registered: Sun 30 December 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
reducetension
Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by all4truth:
quote:
Originally posted by reducetension:
quote:
Originally posted by billbright:
I don't remember if I ever said it. Maybe. If I did, I take it back. ;-)


You mean you recant now?
I remember it, I didn’t say it and I insisted that NONE go on my dog tag for religious preference, and that was 45 years ago!


Hi ReduceTension,

So you have been this way for a long time?

Very interesting,

LJ


I was that 'way' from High School, though interested in "spiritual" things. I have had a number of "episodes" over my life time of 'truth seeking'. Ain't done yet! RT
 
Posts: 3692 | Registered: Fri 07 September 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
all4truth


"a seeker of the TRUTH always!"
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by reducetension:
quote:
Originally posted by all4truth:
quote:
Originally posted by reducetension:
quote:
Originally posted by billbright:
I don't remember if I ever said it. Maybe. If I did, I take it back. ;-)


You mean you recant now?
I remember it, I didn’t say it and I insisted that NONE go on my dog tag for religious preference, and that was 45 years ago!


Hi ReduceTension,

So you have been this way for a long time?

Very interesting,

LJ


I was that 'way' from High School, though interested in "spiritual" things. I have had a number of "episodes" over my life time of 'truth seeking'. Ain't done yet! RT


Keep on keeping on ReduceTension. Smile

Thanks for sharing, BTW.

LJ
 
Posts: 1482 | Registered: Sun 30 December 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
tawodi
member
Picture of tawodi
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O.K. want to know some thing "constitutional??

According to that document the only one REQUIRED to take the oath is the president on taking office.....but we have traditionally given it to everyone.
 
Posts: 7237 | Registered: Wed 29 November 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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