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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military MRFF Nominated For 2010 Nobel Peace Prize|
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The Military Religious Freedom Foundation, founded by Mikey Weinstein to combat coercive religious fundamentalism in the U.S. armed forces has been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize.
http://www.military.com/news/a...bel-peace-prize.html |
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Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about.
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Meh. I support the MRFF, but so many people are eligible to nominate that it isn't really much of an honor. Pretty meaningless.
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Be that as it may, it's considerably more welcome than some of the other acts of recognition that his efforts have garnered. For instance, disgraced former Navy chaplain Gordon Klingenschmidtt frequently offers imprecatory prayers against Weinstein on the radio and at public appearances. Weinstein recently filed a lawsuit against Klingenschmidtt and co-defendant Jim Ammerman, founder of the Dallas based Chaplaincy of Full Gospel Churches. Weinstein says in the lawsuit that he wants them to "stop asking Jesus to plunder my fields...seize my assets, kill me and my family then wipe away our decendants for 10 generations." Weinstein claims that since this imprecatory prayer campaign was launched his family has gotten death threats, animal carcasses left on their doorstep and feces thrown at the house. Randal Mathis, Weinstein's lawyer, says Klingenschmidtt's audience includes a "certain number of unstable people" who might act in the name of God. "A threat is a threat and a call to violence is a call to violence. And those are not constitutionally protected." |
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Oh, absolutely! Klingenschmitt is a particularly foul example of the Religious Right, and his persistent use of imprecatory prayer is an good sample. I think Mikey is overreaching on this suit, though. It's patently obvious that Gordo is using these prayers to motivate his audience to take action against Weinstein and the MRFF. (Otherwise he could simply pray in private, and have the same effect - or does Gordo's god only listen to him in public?) But it looks like he's staying within the letter of the law that protects free speech and freedom of religion. I understand Mikey's anger and desire to stop him, but I think he's going to lose this one. (I'm not a lawyer, and don't have the knowledge to analyze the merits of the case myself, but I trust the judgment of Michael Heath, a frequent commenter on Ed Brayton's Dispatches from the Culture Wars blog - and he IS a lawyer. He's not optimistic about this suit, and his reasons ring true to me.) One thing I'd like to see in cases like this, or threats made against the plaintiffs in religious discrimination suits (like the Dover case, or the Freshwater thing) - people who live nearby volunteering to help keep an eye on those threatened. One of the standard tactics of the religious wingnuts is to publicize the names and locations of their opponents to enable supporters to attack them - even to the point of demanding in court that the plaintiff's identities be made public. The only answer I can see is to mobilize those of us on the other side to at least make it harder to carry out such attacks, or better yet, catch them on video. If such a case comes up in my area, I'd be willing to donate, say, one sleepless night in my car with a video camera every week or two to help protect someone. After all, I'm already familiar with performing guard duty. |
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True, I think a lawsuit like this probably won't have much of an effect. In order to protect our freedom of speech we have to tolerate a certain amount of hate speech from creeps like Klingenschmidtt, Ammerman, and Fred Phelps. And even though they hide behind the freedom of religion, their imprecatory prayers are just hate speech designed to incite violence.
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Yeah this is almost like Alex baldwin screaming for Henry hydes family to be dragged into the satreet and killed on the Conan obrien show...remember?
Selective memory is a problem I know, but believe me, that is no excuse for klingenschmidt and the rest of those idiots doing what they do either! It does tick me off how much is forgotten by those on the left how many times their people do the same thing and have been doing so for years! Now.... do we have a level playing field people?? GOOD! re-engage!! |
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Waht is being done is borderline because it seems to call on action by those listening. This can be seen as incitement. |
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There is a MAJOR difference between a nutcase making a statement calling for violence once or twice and a nutcase repeating it many times, INLCUDING after people have acted on it. |
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How can Christians be against persecution or even try to stop it. That is so unbiblical! Persecution is the fuel of faith. Even Jesus said to ‘rejoice’ when it comes your way!
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 "a seeker of the TRUTH always!" |
ReduceTension, To be accurate, you should finish what Jesus said. 'Because of me'. Meaning because they give testimony that Jesus is Lord. Very specific persecution that Jesus spoke about. LJ |
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"For my names sake" Didn't he say that too, or are you picking at straws about what he intended? We know how much he loved those religious lawyers! |
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I think you're comparing apples and rotten oranges. I never saw that particular incident with Alec Baldwin. He's far to the left of me, but I can't imagine that this was anything more than an energetic use of hyperbole. It was unquestionably in poor taste, but I don't think it was meant to be taken literally. The other nutcases I referred to, on the other hand, are completely serious and fully aware that their exhortations could very well lead someone else to commit violent acts in the belief they were somehow doing "God's work". They definitely have violent intent, but are simply too cowardly to act on it themselves. |
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What about the movie those idiots made showing George Bush being shot down during his own assasination?
You gonna tell me that wasn't wishfull thinking?? If somebody made a movie like that today, about Obama, they wouldn't get any farther than the nearest lamp-post, where they would be run up and we would see who would salute!! |
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Well, Obama is certainly more loved and a much more human CiC than GWB, so why would anyone want to see him murdered? The value speaks for itself. |
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I despised George Bush for what he did to this country, but I wasn't the least bit inclined to see a movie depicting his assasination. It is still a free country though, and those "idiots" had a right to make their movie even though it was in very bad taste. I don't think anyone who would make a similar movie about Obama would face any more serious repercussions than they did. This message has been edited. Last edited by: BPCR45_90, |
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Oh really?? Then why is it that anybody who voices disagreement with his policies and goals is branded a racist and then worse? And as far as G.W.B. is concerned I'm not too damned pleased that he paved the way to our destruction either that's what opened the door for this empty suit. |
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Like traitor? Does that sound familiar for opposition to a recent president's policies and goals? |
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Hm, I had this argument recently with my cousin. No one ever said that ALL of those opposed to Obama's policies are racists. What Carter and many others have said is that many of those opposed are due to Obama's race. There's this big gap between "many" and "all." I think the Birthers are the prime example of purely race-based opposition - their position and arguments are so free of rationality that there has to be an underlying reason that makes them so dogged in their attacks. The knee-jerk opposition to anything Obama does or suggests is also an example. Many of his proposed policies are barely distinguishable from Bush's, or from what McCain would have done if elected - economic policies in particular, and yet Obama's opponents on those were just the same people who would have lauded Bush or McCain for their prompt and necessary bailout moves to rescue the economy. There are certainly people out there who are honestly and thoughtfully opposed to some or all of Obama's actions. There are others out there who are automatically opposed to him and everything he stands for simply because he's a Democrat (though that's not really any better than being a racist.) If you're in one of those two categories, then Carter wasn't talking about you. But there's also a significant amount of opposition based truly on "fear of the other" - people who are simply frightened by a black man in charge, whether they admit it to themselves or not. |
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And why is it that when someone voices agreement with any policy or goal articulated by the present Administration, they are still being labeled "Un-American", "traitor", "socialist" or "Communist"? My newest favorite joke: If President Obama somehow managed to achieve world peace - conservatives would attack him for causing unemployment in the weapons manufacturing industries.   I've been called a "traitor" so often since before George Bush II was first elected President for trying to live the "liberal" teachings of Jesus Christ (like, for example, Matthew Chapter 22, verse 39 and Luke Chapter 5, Versee 31-35), I'm considering adding "traitor" to my business cards along with my other job titles... |
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I've taken to using the phrase "Radical leftist Professor" since it appears to be the only means by which the conservative right will recognize me! (But I haven't gone so far as to put it on my business card!) And, yes, the teachings of Jesus are radical left/socialists.
btw I use the term "radical lefty" and "evil empire" in my military college classes occasionally and much to my amazement many of the younger military don't know what that is! And some don't even know Russia was once the USSR! So, the evil Commies appear to be only a threat to those who can still remember them. Terrorist, now that every one hears but many are not sure what they are either! |
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IMO the people complaining that everyremark about Obama is racest are themselves RACEST. D.J. |
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Of course you were. What did you have to provide? A birth certificate issued by your home state, perhaps? Obama did that - publicly. I stand by my statement - anyone who still believes Obama was NOT born in Hawaii is irrational, and that irrationality is probably based in racism. If that includes you, well, so be it. Glad to hear it. Quite a few Republicans and other conservatives did just that when Bush got the bailout bill rammed through - or did you forget that the cash started flowing while it was still his watch? It was clear to anyone paying attention to economists that more would be required - McCain would have needed to do pretty much what Obama did, only he wouldn't have had Rush, Beck, Coulter, and the other right-wing comedians sniping at him for it. And without them to tell you how horrible it all is, how would you have known to be opposed? Nope. Anyone who votes a straight-party ticket without first looking at the positions each candidate holds is a fool, committing the same sloppy thinking as a racist. That goes for straight-party Democrats just as much as Republicans. Wow - you read the whole post, quoted it, even, and still missed the most important point. No one is saying that EVERY remark about Obama is racist. But there sure are a lot of right-wingers who are afraid they might be included. They know their own hearts better than I do - maybe they have reason to fear that. |
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See what I mean even you fall back to that lame accusation Bob, and it does not become you.
I loath the direction this country is taking we are all too eager to emulate the failures of the past to try and gain some wierd kind of parity or acceptance with the Europeans. We spend more time now telling ourselves we can't do something, when we were kids we believed, and usually rightly so, that we were Americans we could do anything. And then the li...excuse me "progressives" took over and now we have a dumbed down electorate that NEEDS a daddy. Well good friggin' luck with that! You and others seem to think these people care about you and you could not be more wrong...it's all about power and them, it has nothing to do with you except in how they can become empowered at your expense and you bought the company line. It really started with George Bush senior and then continued with G.W.B. The new world order crap! All nations at the top of the heap are always the target, and we were too stupid to realise that. Look at history the British took this Bearding the lion crap for one hundred and fifty years!! And, who was it that brought down the British empire?? US that's who, F.D.R. sealed their doom with the Yalta conference in W.W.2! Where he virtually ignored Churchill. Ending the war was his goal and if it took dumping the British on their collective asses well, sorry about that! What drives me nuts is that you, and so few, see how close we are to a third world nation and the latest push will no doubt take us the rest of the way. A service economy with no manufacturing base CANNOT recover from what has been done! And if you or anybody else think the world will help us back up you're nuts!! They have worked way too hard to put us down! Ask yourself this the fed just loaned two trillion dollars to some body and won't say who!! We used to call that a clue fellas....really we did! |
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Nope. Anyone who votes a straight-party ticket without first looking at the positions each candidate holds is a fool, committing the same sloppy thinking as a racist. That goes for straight-party Democrats just as much as Republicans.[ Sorry no answer for this i can put on this forum, I get so pi--ed off at this government there isnt a dmm one worth the cost of a new rope D.J. IMO the people complaining that everyremark about Obama is racest are themselves RACEST. D.J.[/QUOTE]Wow - you read the whole post, quoted it, even, and still missed the most important point. No one is saying that EVERY remark about Obama is racist. But there sure are a lot of right-wingers who are afraid they might be included. They know their own hearts better than I do - maybe they have reason to fear that.[/QUOTE] |
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Donnie, you share a philosophy that we all share. Waste not, want not. You probably use it in your own house. And, it is the best plan... at home. The economics you use in your own house are akin to what is called Micro-economics.
The problem is, this doesn't work on a macro-economic, or worldwide, scale. I took a lot of economics in college, and I think I might have a little more understanding than you about these things. So, if you'll permit me, I'd like to share something I learned. On the large scale, there must be spending, or everything stops; to put in the simplest terms I can think of. When everything stops, that's when you have depression.That means that, even though you might not have the money as a country as large and influential as ours, you must spend something to make up for the lack of spending by anybody else. Does that make any sense to you at all? So, part of the reason things didn't tank completely back when Bush was giving tiny tax rebates wasn't just that he was giving tax rebates; he was spending money like a drunken Marine. On military goods. Now, with the current credit debacle, we need even more spending to keep as many people as possible employed so they can also spend. There are numbers that reflect how much is enough: pay particular attention to GDP, for instance. Unlike in your home budget, the amount of stir that occurs, or the amount of money in circulation, makes all the difference in the world between being able to clothe and house your kids and starvation on the street. |
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Thank You Bill, I do understand what you are saying and agree. (no No sarcasem here) but how can giving bonus's in the millionsof dollars to executives that ended up spending this money over seas on resort islands or help the economy in our country. correct me if i am wrong but if that money (the money given as bonus's to the exec.) had been sent out to all american (not illegal immegrants) wouldnt that be putting the money into the market faster. there would be more people buying products, causing more products to be made keeping the employs employed, sure maybe the exec. might have to give up one of their smaller 25 bedroom hous's but maybe it is time they sacraficed dont want anybody to think all of them were like that some realy earned a bonus but a bonus for making a company fail is this the new way of life, wish they had given me a hefty bonus when i failed at somthing. (like maybe spelling) D.J. |
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Agreed. We need to watch that. However, we can't take to many deliberate moves to interfere with capitalistic behavior. The best and brightest must be motivated by extraordinary means. Just shooting from the hip, my sentiment would be that there might be a special tax on huge bonuses and windfall profits of this nature. A better set standard of performance made before giving away money to these sharks would have been a good thing, but things were done in haste (as they must have been to forestall catastrophe), and this is the result, I suppose. Maybe we'll know better next time? Another item to consider is that all economies are commingled. I would rather see it spent here, but that it was spent somewhere rather than stuck in a mattress is a good thing. |
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That certainly would have been a popular move for awhile. The problem with such a move is that the money is spent all at once, and sustainability of spending wouldn't have occurred. You may remember that Bush did that twice with smaller amounts, which is appropriate. It gives an instant boost to a less serious situation. But the magnitude of the credit problem dictated that the credit institutions needed to be bolstered, and the lending practices go on more or less uninterrupted. |
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The problem with economics is that it hasn't the first thing to do with what's fair or equitable. It is all about flow and stir. When the motion of money stops, we starve. It's that simple, and that complex all at the same time. I'm encouraged that Obama is getting the best advise he can before taking on the issue of bonuses. There do, indeed, need to be regulations and controls on money spent by the government on these jerks. It needs to be done wisely, and Obama seems determined to get the best economic minds involved before creating a situation that will drive major bankers offshore. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military MRFF Nominated For 2010 Nobel Peace Prize
