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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military Disputed Religion at Service Academies|
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Experienced Member |
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/us/25academies.html?hp
Religion and Its Role Are in Dispute at the Service Academies By NEELA BANERJEE Published: June 25, 2008 Three years after a scandal at the Air Force Academy over the evangelizing of cadets by Christian staff and faculty members, students and staff at West Point and the Naval Academy are complaining that their schools, too, have pushed religion on cadets and midshipmen. The controversy led the Air Force to adopt guidelines that discourage public prayers at official events or meetings. And while those rules do not apply to other branches of the service, critics say the new complaints raise questions about the military’s commitment to policies against imposing religion on its members. Religion in the military has come under increasing scrutiny in recent years, especially because the close confines of military life often put two larger societal trends — the rise of evangelicals and the rise of people of no organized faith — onto a collision course. At the Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., nine midshipmen recently asked the American Civil Liberties Union to petition the school to abolish daily prayer at weekday lunch, where attendance is mandatory. The midshipmen and the A.C.L.U. assert that the practice is unconstitutional, based in large part on a 2004 appellate court ruling against a similar prayer at the Virginia Military Institute. The civil liberties group has threatened legal action if the policy is not changed. But the academy is not persuaded. “The academy does not intend to change its practice of offering midshipmen an opportunity for prayer or devotional thought during noon meal announcements,” Cmdr. Ed Austin, an academy spokesman, said in an e-mail message. In interviews at West Point, seven cadets, two officers and a former chaplain said that religion, especially evangelical Christianity, was a constant at the academy. They said that until recently, cadets who did not attend religious services during basic training were sometimes referred to as “heathens.” They said mandatory banquets begin with prayer, including a reading from the Bible at a recent gala. But most of their complaints center on Maj. Gen. Robert L. Caslen, until recently the academy’s top military leader and, since early May, the commander of the 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii. The cadets and staff said General Caslen, as commandant of cadets at West Point, routinely brought up God in speeches at events cadets were required to attend. In his farewell speech to the cadet corps this spring, General Caslen told them: “Draw your strength in the days ahead from your faith in God. Let it be the moral compass that guides you in the decisions you make.” The groups of cadets and midshipmen, who do not know each other, echo the same view: that the military, regardless of its official policies, by emphasizing religion, especially Christianity, at events that students are required to attend sends the message that to be considered successful officers they have to believe in God. “Nowhere does it say that you have to be a good Christian officer or Jewish officer or Muslim officer: You need to be an officer dedicated to the Constitution of the United States,” said Steven Warner, who graduated from West Point last month. “They tell us as an officer you have to put everything aside, all your personal stuff. But religion is the one thing they encourage you to wear on your sleeve.” Cynthia Lindenmeyer, a 1990 West Point graduate who was a civilian chaplain at the school from 2000 to 2007, offered a similar view. “As a cadet, you are at a very vulnerable place in your spiritual development,” she said, “and you want to be like the people who mentor you.” Col. Bryan Hilferty, a West Point spokesman, rejected the idea that the academy endorses religion, even tacitly, or that General Caslen had said anything inappropriate in his time there. And others, including many cadets, endorsed that view. In interviews on campus, 15 randomly selected cadets said that they did not feel religion was foisted upon them. “There is a spiritual aspect here that people feel is part of the development of an officer,” said Brad Hoelscher, who graduated last month, “but not a specific brand of religion or even religion itself.” Col. John J. Cook III, head chaplain at West Point, said, “No one is pushing them to believe.” Referring to prayers at mandatory settings, he said: “This is something we have done in the military for centuries. It is not designed to make people religious. The majority of people here are people of faith, and a prayer asks God’s blessing on a gathering and on the food.” The Air Force, however, took a different view in the guidelines it adopted in 2005. For example, the guidelines say: “Supervisors, commanders and leaders at every level bear a special responsibility to ensure their words and actions cannot reasonably be construed as either official endorsement or disapproval of the decisions of individuals to hold particular religious beliefs or to hold no religious beliefs.” Since the Air Force investigation, controversies over religion in the military have continued. Last year, the Army inspector general issued a report critical of seven officers, including four generals, who appeared, in uniform and in violation of military regulations, in a 2006 fund-raising video for the Christian Embassy, an evangelical Bible study group. General Caslen was among the officers. The cadets and midshipmen do not claim practices at West Point and the Naval Academy are as egregious as those at the Air Force Academy, which were found to include expressions of anti-Semitism, official sponsorship of a showing of “The Passion of the Christ” and a locker room banner that said athletes played for “Team Jesus.” But given the vast authority superiors have over subordinates in the military, prayer and repeated mention of God in mandatory settings can communicate a requirement to be religious, military and legal experts said. “You always have to be aware of the authority you have within your rank and uniform and the coercive potential of that authority,” said Robert Tuttle, a constitutional law expert and professor at George Washington University Law School whose father is a retired four-star Army general At the Naval Academy, midshipmen have contacted the A.C.L.U. over the years, questioning the constitutionality of the noon meal prayer, especially after the 2004 court ruling, said Debbie Jeon, legal director of the group’s Maryland organization. No midshipmen have wanted to take action until now, Ms. Jeon said. Three recent graduates, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation, said that all 4,300 midshipmen enter the noon meal together and that before they eat they are invited to pray by a chaplain. The academy’s eight chaplains are all officers, and all but one are Christian. Those midshipmen who do not bow their heads with their hands clasped in front are conspicuous, they said, which makes some, especially underclassmen, feel very uncomfortable. “By these people talking everyday, whether they make it voluntary or not, they make it very clear that this is the standard, and the standard is Judaism or Christianity,” said a recent graduate who was raised Roman Catholic but is now an atheist. “I feel it’s inappropriate to have this in a public institution.” The midshipmen used an anonymous feedback system at the academy to voice their concerns to the administration. But its response, in a list of answers to questions about “the U.S.N.A. noon meal prayer,” contends that exposure to religious customs is important to the development of midshipmen and that those against the prayer should compromise. The Navy’s arguments, however, were rejected by appellate court decisions in earlier lawsuits, Mr. Tuttle said. Religious liberty advocates like Mikey Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation said fear silenced those troubled by religiosity at the academies. “There is this massive sense of two things: that you are not wanted and you are made to feel like last-class citizens,” said Mr. Weinstein, a former Air Force officer. He added that he had been contacted by 31 cadets and staff members from West Point, including those who raised concerns about General Caslen, and 56 people from the Naval Academy, including 39 midshipmen. Almost all are afraid to go public. At West Point, nearly all of those who raised concerns about religion at the academy in interviews were raised as Christians, though some are now agnostic or atheist. They said the primacy of faith was apparent at West Point. This year, all cadets received a book about moral development based on the cadet prayer. At his commencement speech this year at West Point, Secretary of the Army Pete Geren started and ended with a quote from the Bible when God speaks to Isaiah, and he cast the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan as a clash between American and radical Islamic approaches to religious liberty. General Caslen served as commandant of cadets from mid-2006 to last month. Cadets praised him as a military commander, but they said religiosity at West Point increased under him. In a speech last August that all cadets had to attend, General Caslen told cadets they were all God’s children and that was why he respected them. “It wasn’t the first time,” said Mr. Warner, who was raised Pentecostal but is now atheist. “He always brings it up when he talks about leadership or moral values.” In an interview, General Caslen said he had a “hard time” understanding how describing the dignity of others in terms of their being God’s children would be offensive, but nonetheless he apologized. He said he was careful not to use his position to impose his religious views on others. But he said that while one need not be religious to be a good officer, a West Point field manual on leadership talks of the spiritual formation of cadets. “That is the leadership development model for West Point and that recognizes there is a supreme being,” he said. “The values of one’s faith play an important role in moral development, and they undergird the development of ideas like duty, honor, country.” The West Point cadets and Navy midshipmen said they wanted the practices to end, and their hope is that the military will make changes on its own. “I have more faith in the Army than most people do,” said Mr. Warner, 27, who served as an enlisted man before enrolling at West Point. “It can police itself if it chooses to.” |
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Experienced Member |
Just a little off-topic heads-up:
In the above Be Strong, Atheist's thread, I've entered the names of nineteen young Americans who have died in Iraq and sixteen in Afghanistan in June... so far. The rumors of reduced violence seem to be contraindicated. Our hearts and thoughts reach out to the families of these American heroes. |
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Member |
yes mine do as well.
wen |
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Member |
With a due nod and moment of silence for our fallen brothers and sisters in-arms.
*** Back on-topic, I think this is a serious issue. When I went to OBC, 44 of my 69 classmates were West Point graduates. They were the most obnoxious, PUSHY, arrogant people I'd ever met, and it all had to do with religion. It would take hours for me to type a proper description of what went on, but basically, it was a nonstop evangelizing session, from the first day of OBC until the day I graduated. Not only the other butterbars, but also the cadre (most of whom had graduated from West Point, too) pushed the Officers' Bible Study and the Officers' Christian Fellowship as if they were mandatory activities. EVERY briefing from EVERY member of the cadre reminded us how important it was for us to attend Bible Study. And then came the phone calls on Sunday mornings. Every Sunday, I received phone calls from other young officers, first asking, then insisting, and then DEMANDING that I attend church with them. When I finally demanded that they stop calling me on Sunday mornings, I got black-listed. I was referred to as the "fcking devil worshipper" by the entire gang, and when I tried to ask the cadre to intercede, the CPT said that he was the "wrong person to ask" because, in his exact words, "I kinda agree with them." So here's my trainer/and first-line leader telling me that he not only accepted, but also ENDORSED the pushy evangelizing behavior of my classmates. In fact, one day, when that Captain was giving a block of instruction (supposedly) on culture and religion in Iraq, he explained that there were the Sunni, the Shiites, and then also these groups who live in the mountains and practice "some sort of devil worship stuff - Wicca or something like that". This was an OFFICIAL class! All the West Point grads in the class laughed at that like it was acceptable. Oh, and did I mention - I never told them about my beliefs. I never mentioned my "religion". I simply told them that I wasn't interested in their evangelizing, and to stop calling me on Sunday mornings. The rest of this was all based on their assumptions about me. I actually DID go to the Bible study a few times. Anyone here shocked? I liked the Chaplain - a good man with a good understanding of the Bible and a gentle yet scholarly demeanor - and I enjoy learning about things. Having attended many years of Bible studies in my own past, I actually knew more about the topics and passages we covered in the class than most of my other classmates who were supposedly "saved". They didn't like it when the Chaplain said, "No, she's right," amid protests from the dissenters. We also had one Muslim in our OBC class - he was the sweetest, post polite, gentle-mannered young officer I've had the privilege to meet - and I can't begin to describe the crap they gave him, indirectly, passive-aggressively, off-the-cuff. He heard them, but he never got angry, never challenged them. Anyway, that's a small sample of the behavior I've seen from young officers graduating from West Point. They think it's their duty AND their right to push their beliefs in other people's faces, make crass and insulting comments about other people's religions, to intimidate people who won't join them, and to black-list anyone who protests. If these cadets, cadre, and graduates can't conduct themselves as officers within the restrictions of their rank and post, then perhaps they DO need to be toned-down a bit. |
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Experienced Member |
I think you need to talk to Mikey Weinstein. |
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Member |
Already have. More than once. Trust me, the few things I related here are the tip of the iceberg. I've got stuff from as far back as Basic Training in 2001, pre-September 11th. I'll tell you about the "free day away" sometime. Today, however, the discussion was specifically about West Point and the military academies, and I provided a very brief version of some of the things I've experienced in dealing with West Point graduates. Their skewed view of American history was just as disturbing as their free license to push their religion on everyone else. Oh, and you should have seen how angry they got when I refused to "bow my head and pray to Jesus, your Lord and Savior" at an official briefing/ceremony. People on this board have accused me of being anti-Christian. Not so. I simply don't like people forcing their beliefs on me dogmatically, and through the systematic abuse of power and rank. If a group of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or Buddhists were pulling the same stunts, I'd be just as unhappy about that. The thing is, it wasn't groups of Jews, Muslims, Hindus, or Buddhists. It's systematically, consistently, EVERY BLOODY TIME been evangelical dominionist Christianity being shoved down my throat in official military settings. NOT ALL Christianity. Just that certain militant sect that seems to be slowly taking over. I don't consider them "true Christians", as I will give a respectful nod to All4truth in this statement. They lost that respectful status when they used coercive techniques, abused their status, used group-intimidation, utilized government time and resources, and pushed hateful and hurtful attitudes at anyone who didn't join them. There's a saying from a blog I follow: "I'm not angry; I just don't agree with you." The thing is, I start to get angry when people want to abuse their power to force me to agree with them. If you'd been on the other side of this coin, you wouldn't be happy either. |
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 "a seeker of the TRUTH always!" |
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"Sarcastic Member" |
Tigger should be along shortly to say that either you are imagining things or you are lying. |
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Experienced Member |
This was the deal the "moral majority" made with the devil when they took money and campaign assistance, starting with Reagan's campaign, from dominionists and every other nut-ball sect that would run parallel campaign ads... which is the very reason it USED TO be illegal for churches to participate in politics or risk losing their tax exempt status. |
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Member |
Imagining this?!? I couldn't have imagined something this bad until it actually HAPPENED. I'm not completely sure if YOU think I'm imagining things or lying, or if you just think that this Tigger person would make that accusation, but regardless... It's all find and dandy that some blissfully ignorant people think that things are this whacked, but I got to live through it. For several months, that was my reality. The EO NCO for Fort Leonard Wood had been trying to bring a formal investigation to the Engineer School for ages, but nobody had the balls to sign a sworn statement because they were too chicken-schitt to put their names to anything. They'd complain to the EO guy, but then were afraid for their careers and wouldn't take the next step. When the term "fcking devil worshipper" started getting thrown around, I figured they couldn't throw much worse at me, so I wrote a formal letter detailing everything and submitted it to the EO NCO. It ended up on the Post Commander's desk. You see, I have two principles to which I hold myself: 1. Honesty, to the best of my ability. 2. Reason and logic to the best of my ability. I am neither lying, nor imagining this. People can enjoy delusion that stuff like this doesn't happen. Enjoy the happy-go-lucky idea that our military isn't being run with an evangelical, fundamentalist, dominionist Christian propaganda. Comfort yourself by saying that people like SPC Jeremy Hall is fabricating the story about MAJ Welborne. Tell yourself that the soldiers aren't calling Pat Tillman "worm dirt" because he's atheist, and that his death had nothing to do with malicious fratricide because he's not Christian. Deny the validity investigation at the Air Force Academy. The list goes on, but tell yourself that it's all a figment of someone's imagination. I've got a good imagination, but I'd like to think I can discern between reality and flights of fancy. Besides, if I was going to imagine something, I'd much prefer to imagine something pleasant. |
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"Sarcastic Member" |
White Tigger.  I have no reason to disbelieve you. I have experienced similar things myself, though not as extreme. Tigger called me a liar when I related them. |
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Member |
Or Tigger will demand you produce a URL/web-link - and if you do Tigger will demand another URL/web-link, and another URL/web-link until you give up. Then Tigger will post to you: "Liar, Liar - pants on fire!"  |
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Member |
AAAAAH! THAT Tigger. Got it. I was missing the reference. I like that.
Sorry if I thought you were speaking for your own opinion, Thorin. I'm sorry that you've been through similar things - no American should ever be put through schitt like that. I seriously couldn't believe that it could be THAT bad until I experienced it myself. I'm sure that if I'd just bowed my head and pretended to pray, or went along with all of it, and never complained, it wouldn't have become as bad as it did. However, I had experienced enough of that sort of forced Christianization at Basic Training that I didn't want to be forced into it again, and as an officer, I felt a little bit more free to say "no". So, I said no, and they pushed, and I said "no" more loudly, and they pushed harder. Sure, there were other people who didn't like it, but everyone who just shut up and accepted it was at least able to "fly under the radar", but I'd just had enough, and I wasn't about to bend over and take it that time. T-I-dubble-GUH-er can go bounce his tail off. He doesn't have to believe a word I say, or anything you say, because he only believes things if they fit his pre-conceived notion of the way things work. *shrugs* I don't have any URL's of my own experience, but there are enough documented examples of other people's experiences that it more than supports what I'm saying. I'm sure that the investigations at West Point will bear me out. It's amusing that the old Commandant of West Point was amongst the General Officers cited for investigation because they were in that "Christian Embassy" video. Oh, the whole thing was just a mess, but for those who like official reports and URL's... have fun with this one: http://www.dodig.osd.mil/fo/Foia/ERR/Xtian_Embassy_072707.pdf It's available on multiple websites, all over the place. Anyway... I hope this ends reasonably. I'm all for letting people practice their faith on bases, and for having church services available for those who want them (as well as services for other religions, too, of course). But the organized way in which it's become senior officials are pushing one certain sect of a religion with such ferocity on people who are in such vulnerable positions... it's positively un-American. |
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SUSPENDED MEMBER S_S  FIVE TIGERS |
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