|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||
Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military Commentary: Christian bookstore's shameful actions|
Go
|
New
|
Find
|
Notify
|
Tools
|
Reply
|
|
|
SUSPENDED MEMBER S_S |
  |
|||
|
Member |
You have something you'd like to add to the discussion, Dr. Ryan? |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------  Proud Member ------------------  |
Nemo, perhaps? Ecclesiastes? Tut the IV? Perhaps Plato, the pedophilia provocateur? Maybe Shakespeare? Want me to continue? It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
|
30 days warning Nemesis  |
Wait, wait... I can follow you on some of that list, but... Plato wasn't an atheist, but like other educated men of his day, probably did not ascribe to the myths of the Greek Pantheon of Gods and Goddesses as academic fact, and did not endorse the teaching of caricatured myths as a means of indoctrinating children. His original "Republic" was one of the first published philosophical documents that DIRECTLY called for the equality of women in education and public duty and rights. And MOSTLY, he was absolutely NOT an anarchist. "The Republic" calls for a highly ordered society led by a philosopher-king and a group of highly educated "guardians". His philosophy was the antithesis of anarchy. And... SHAKESPEARE? He wrote plays aimed at the common folks. You could equate him with an average movie script-writer and director today. Afraid of the rumor that he was bisexual? |
|||
|
Ecce Agnus Dei |
 uummm, somewhat off the Thread Topic folks...But since someone brought up the topic of "Anarchy" there is a verse that came to mind. Turn to the Book of Judges (6th book of the Bible) and read the last verse. I think it sums up well what happens when there is no Government rooted in God's Word. Check it out. "In those days there was no King in Israel; every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 21: 25 This message has been edited. Last edited by: swremwin, |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------ |
Please note that both of your arguments are about sexual orientation, whereas mine were not. I rest my case. Agendas always promote bigotry. It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
|
I'd rather be knitting. |
Are you advocating a theocratic monarchy for the U.S., or just Israel? Monarchies are something of a crap shoot in terms of governance, and theocracies tend to eat themselves alive. |
|||
|
member |
ANARCHISTS OF THE WORLD UNITE!!!
uhhhh, ANARCHISTS OF THE WORLD WE MUST COME TOGETHER!! uhhhh, ANARCHISTS EVERYWHERE MEET TOGETHER TO DISCUSS...... uhhhh, ANARCHISTS GATHER TONIGHT AT THE TOWN SQUARE AND..... uhhhh, Ya Know!! It's awful damned hard to get anarchists together to agree on anything!!! Maybe that's why they're called anarchists!!!! DUHHH!! |
|||
|
|
Member |
nope...huh uh!!!...no way... |
|||
|
|
30 days warning Nemesis |
Excuse me? Read what I wrote again, please. I did not mention anything about Plato's sexual behavior. YOU DID. I didn't mention his orientation or his affinity for younger specimens. That was ALL YOU. And I only mentioned the unconfirmed rumors about Shakespeare's sexual orientation AS A JOKE. Nobody's sure what his orientation was, and it doesn't really matter for this argument. I'm waiting for you to explain how either of them were "evidence that can be used to link non-believers with anarchy and detriments to society." I pointed out that Plato strongly supported an ordered society of educated rulers and leaders, and that Shakespeare was just a playwright, not a politician or philosopher. I want to know how the hell those two made it onto your list of "non-believing anarchists". |
|||
|
|
Member |
Do you have any proof, or are we assuming that these men are all 'anarchists' because the church said so. The Catholic Church has a history of libel towards men who didn't 'toe the line'. I'll need independant sources. |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------ |
You want me to prove that a man doesn't believe in God? I think y'all are missing the point entirely. Just like WP, you have it in your mind to think one way, and when I challenge it you redirect. It is well known that Shakespeare was gay. It is well known that Plato was a pedophile. It is well known that Nemo was both. I'm not going to dig up facts, because all you have to do is go to Wiki and see for yourself. I am well read, and while I appreciate their contributions, the fact is that godless men are typically heathens. When a man has no destiny to answer to, his morals have no containment field. Life becomes about the pleasure of the moment, and answering for one's sins is small talk intertwined with excuses. I am not saying that a man has to have faith in order to be a good person. And I am in no way attempting to claim that anyone professing faith is beyond selfishness. But the FACT is that 99% of people believe in something, so blaming things on religion is too easy. Muslims, Christians... Hell, even the Picannini Tribes in Africa worship a god in the form of a snake. Egyptians worshiped many. Ancient Christians used their god to justify mass extinction, as did Hitler. Kim Jong Il has his god, and he touts his faith as for the people. Castro. Phelps. The point is that I can no more prove that bad behavior is a result of a lack of faith as any of you can assign faith as responsible for it. Those of you who choose not to believe or want to worship crystal amulets or trees or hamsters or whatever constantly and consistently blame religion for society's ills. You're like a rabid pack of anti-gunners, always putting the blame on the tool, instead of on the user where it belongs. Do you blame the hammer when you hit your thumb? You have faith in no faith, but anyone with faith in their Faith are mindless twits using God as an excuse. My entire point all along has been that, faith or not, people are by nature evil. Look at Phelps, or Wright, or Nemo or Plato or anyone else. Having a belief in a higher power is no more or less likely to result in animalistic behavior. God is not our enemy. The Human Beings are our own worse enemy. If you want to blame religion, you need to look no further than the person that practices it out of context. Those that practice it IN context don't commit the atrocities. They defend others from it. It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
|
Member |
Unfortunately (and ironically) I largely agree with you that most of mankind does need some kind of supernatural watchdog, complete with threats, in order to keep society from degrading into chaos. Without the invisible man upstairs, I do believe that most folks who depend upon religion as their compass would be more inclined to look after only themselves. However, this in no way proves or disproves the existance of a diety. It only means that the majority of society has to believe that such a diety exists. But, I don't believe that atheists, agnostics, pagans, or any other non-monotheists are any more or less likely to be follow any of the paths towards anarchy. We, as social creatures, require rules and norms in society. If there were no religious beliefs, we would still have laws that protected people. |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------ |
And that is sad. But it is true.
It sickens me that we prey on each other as we do, but we do. Tell a man that he can have an advantage over another man, he'll play Cain and Abel and bash his own brother's head with a rock. It's pathetic. But it is human nature. All for one, and one for... one. I don't know if my faith makes me human, or if I'm human because of my faith. But I hold to both with confidence that I do the best I can for my fellow man because I am here. That'll have to do. And when I see God, He'll tell me what I did right and wrong, and only then will I truly know. For now, faith is all I have. It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
Member |
Just making sure I understood what you were saying... And one other point... Correction: He is a puppet pinhead. If it weren't for the people behind the camera telling him what to say, he'd be another dub-ya  This message has been edited. Last edited by: sabow, |
|||
|
|
Member |
It should be noted that while your examples, with the exception of Ecclesiastes, were not Christians, they also were not Atheists. I am not following your example of Ecclesiastes. Please explain this. |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------ |
Keep reading. I explained it on this page. It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
|
Member |
I read to the end of this thread before I posted and did not see how or where you explained your examples... so I ask again, please explain. |
|||
|
|
Proud to be a Christian, gun owning, American veteran and redneck. God bless the USA and our vets! ------------------ Proud Member ------------------ |
First, I meant Nemo (as in Captain), not Nero. As I tried to illustrate, religion is not a commodity that can prove or disprove a man's character. When you want to blame religion, look at the men and women behind it - like guns. It's not the gun that shot so and so, it's the person. Is that a better explanation? It's not that there is no God or that He isn't listening. You're probably just asking the wrong questions. |
|||
|
|
Member |
- After rereading it...I hope it wasn't taken the wrong way -  - LegionSon - |
|||
|
|
Ecce Agnus Dei |
< snipped for brevity > F.M.I.---Permit the intrusion into your chit-chat with Sabow. I think I understand your inclusion of the Book of Ecclesiastes. Often times called "The words of the Preacher"; This book is not a cheery/sunnyside/smiley-face part of Scripture but it is what most folks nowadays would call "Too negative" and "sad",,,which is a huge reason that most churches (of any flavor/variety) never have a sermon or sunday school lesson from this Book. It is full of cold, honest, and frank Reality, rather than "feel-good" "positive-thinking" "happy thoughts". Please turn to Chapter 1 verse 2, and read the opening of the Book. {The "Vanity" here does not mean the cabinet around your bathroom sink...It means: Emptiness, worthlessness.} Now turn to the last Chapter (12) and read the last two verses. (13,14). It is a good summation of the message of Ecclesiastes. BTW:--If anyone reading this does not own a Bible --(Get one!)-- you can read the whole Book of Ecclesiastes (next door to Proverbs-another neglected book) here "www.justbible.com" {minus the quotation marks- } Hope this helps ya F.M.I.. |
|||
|
|
SUSPENDED MEMBER S_S |
I like this one...
Ecclesiastes 12:13 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. |
|||
|
|
* |
Just my 2-pence…
As a one time partner in Christian Bookstore for over 6 years – then left that to take over a convenient store with a liquor license – well, it was an interesting experience. This used to be a small town – when I took over the C-store our local newspaper had on the front page… “From Christian books to Christian Brother’s Brandy…” I personally, thought that was funny. Some folks were offended that I even considered doing such a thing. Many folks knew we were highly involved churches and even helped a few start up – but when we took over the C-store – that had a liquor license, well, we were obviously back-sliding and going to hell… The Christian Bookstore industry is a tough industry. The demographics are not very supportive and the Christians who do shop usually complained about the high prices. Ironically, most folks have some sort-of built-in notion that Christian Bookstores are “ministries” or something. They shouldn’t make money or if they do – they certainly shouldn’t make very much… The Charismatic and non-denominational folks would give me an ear full if they saw Catholic materials, books, crosses, bibles, etc… The Presbyterian folks complained we didn’t carry enough theological materials. They’d really get their shorts pulled in a bunch if they spotted a Copeland, Robertson, or other type Charismatic or Pentecostal type materials. The Methodists didn’t come around much unless a newbie needed a bible or vacation bible school – Baptists didn’t come around too much because they either had their own internal stores or like most mainline denominations their folks simply didn’t come around… I mean, what would the guys think if they saw them walking out of a Christian bookstore? It was interesting – challenging – and fun at times. I’d do it again, but not until I retire or hit the lottery. It’s too hard trying to make a living. For some reasons folks think those bibles, books, music, etc, were all given to the store free – and I think they thought the same way about our electric and food too. I enjoyed it because it was challenging. Theology was always tricky – especially when came to the controversial subjects. If I put two books together in a display – one on predestination the other free will, great-day miss Agnes – holy-cow, batman – I’d get an ear full… I did it on purpose – I thought it was funny. Same with eschatology – if put dispensational or pretrib book beside a post-mill book – holy cow would that create a miff… Folks would get their dandruff up and demand to speak with the manager/owner… I used to always challenge folks who came in the store looking for a particular book because the guy they work with believed something different. It wouldn’t matter what it was – the rapture dude was arguing with the Amill or post-mill dude – we’re going to be raptured – it’s the end of the world – Jesus is coming… yada yada… I have to admit there weren’t too many post-mill dudes but because I am one – I always carried a few books… Same with free will and predestination – those guys would come in looking for material to battle the other guy… I’d always give them a book supporting the other guy, which never went over well. My point was though – if you spend all your time studying what others should NOT believe – most of the time – they had NO idea of “why” they believed “what” they thought they believed. That as the challenge. To me it didn’t matter “what” they believed (within context) as long as they knew “WHY” they believed what they believed. If they couldn’t provide me with much more than a few scattered versus then I tell them they didn’t believe in anything other than hearsay – whatever the pastor said – whatever that “other” guy teacher said… That wasn’t conviction that was convenience. A few folks walked out – a few folks appreciated it. Doctrines are stranger yet – most folks have no idea why they believe in certain doctrines other than that’s what their church teaches. There are some things within the Christian dogma that are foundation – all the rest – is simply flavoring. I used to say – God tried laying down the law and we couldn’t do it. This time have gave us the puzzle – filled in all the corners and sides (the parameters) and allowed us to fill in the pieces ourselves. This way most of us can be wrong while being right or right while being wrong… The bottom line is – if I chose to believe or if He chose me is really secondary – it’s still Christ Crucified… if I believe the end-times is mostly history and already happened (within context) and we still get raptured – hey, don’t kick that guy holding on your pants leg – because if I’m wrong, I sure as heck am not going to be left behind… So, God in his eternal wisdom left plenty of blanks and pieces of the puzzle to fit in many areas. Some folks find themselves agreeing with the Lutheran line of thought while others it’s Methodist – others Presbyterian – Catholic – etc or rebels like me who blends a little of each and end up non-denominational. It’s still Christ Crucified and rose from the dead – One God! Some folks might pray to a Saint or give kudos to mother Mary – some folks wear shorts and cut-offs to church. Give God all the glory and be thankful to serve – that’s all that really matters. If everyone believed exactly how-what-why I believed – we’d all be right – but they don’t so, I guess I just have to live it… and they with me! That whole women in church leadership issue would really cause a stir. I don’t necessarily go along with it because of my views of scripture – but I wasn’t about to tell someone else that’s what they had to believe. I rarely expressed my personal views unless asked – which usually didn’t go over so well anyway. What I found ironic about this particular topic was the argument would somehow always end-up about abilities – sort of like the twists we see folks trying to peg Palin with. It really has nothing to do with ability – I’m quite sure there are plenty of women who could manage and teach better than many men. IMHO – that had nothing to do with the equation. Much like today – IMHO – many pastors have no business being pastors – it’s actually a career. That’s why the church is so impotent – IMHO. These are called positions – not careers. Just because someone goes to seminary – likes to teach – loves God – and likes to teach God’s people – does NOT mean they are CALLED… Bill Gates could be great pastor if that were the case… IMHO we need to recognize the significance of God’s calling and quit worrying about talent and membership. The church has come through a major cultural and realignment – re-organization, if you will over the past 30+ years. She hasn’t quite figured out it’s not about an organization – it’s about a living organism. We all know that “we” are the church but for whatever reasons that inclusion becomes exclusion on Sunday mornings. We are a fickle people – go figure. |
|||
|
|
member |
L.S. I got it, not a problem!!
T |
|||
|
| Powered by Eve Community | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military Commentary: Christian bookstore's shameful actions
