(CNN) -- In the 19 years that Teresa Hairston has published her magazine, GospelToday, she has never faced a major situation with Christian bookstores across the country that carry the publication.

She's tackled any number of issues over the years,and has featured a number of celebrities and ministers, ranging from Yolanda Adams to Bishop T.D. Jakes to Kirk Franklin.

But when the Atlanta, Georgia, entrepreneur decided to feature five female pastors on her cover this month, she says, Lifeway Christian Stores treated her like she had converted her Christian publication to something akin to the tastes of porn purveyor Larry Flynt.

Apparently, the owner of Lifeway, the Southern Baptist Convention, wasn't too happy with Hairston telling the story of female pastors, because the women go against their 2000 decree that only men can serve in the role of reverend or pastor.

According to Hairston, the Christian company didn't even give her the courtesy of a heads-up.

"We got an anonymous tip," she told me Tuesday on The Tom Joyner Morning Show, and after checking it out, she discovered that the magazine had been removed from the shelves in all of Lifeway's 100-plus stores nationwide and had been placed behind the counter.

"They have never called me," Hairston said. "Never sent an e-mail. Nothing. I had to go see my distributor to verify what they had done."

The actions of Lifeway didn't stun me. I had seen this movie before.

A few years ago, my wife was a longtime Lifeway teacher. She had taught at the company's teaching centers for years, but then one day, she was notified that she would have to take down her Web site and comply with their rules against female pastors or be dropped as a teacher. Her crime? Calling herself the Rev. Jacquie Hood Martin.

It wasn't that she did so for the heck of it. She graduated from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary; was the first female staff pastor at Houston's Brookhollow Baptist Church/the Church Without Walls, a Southern Baptist Convention church; and has been leading folks to the Lord all over the country for 20 years.

She was angered by Lifeway's decision but made it clear that she didn't serve the bookstore or even the Southern Baptist Convention. She made a commitment to serving Jesus Christ and was not about to back away from her call to ministry because a male-dominated organization decided that its interpretation of the Bible calls for a woman not to be in the pulpit.

So she cut them off and kept on calling herself the Rev. Jacquie Hood Martin.

Religious folks will quickly say that Scripture is clear that women can't be pastors and lead men, yet Hairston says that when she featured Pastor Paula White on her cover two years ago, Lifeway didn't take any action against the magazine.

Anyone who has served in a church or been a member of any faith knows that there are those who have strict interpretations of their faith's writings, while others have a different interpretation.

I've heard Brookhollow's pastor, the Rev. Dr. Ralph Douglas West Sr., preach several sermons stating that what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy with regards to only men preaching was specific to that church and not a blanket ban. Second, there were instances where Paul wrote that his views were his own and not mandates from God.

That is a doctrinal fight that any of us can have any time (and I love it how these same Bible thumpers ignore the biblical story of Deborah, who was a judge in the Old Testament -- and was over men).

But what is a greater issue is that Lifeway clearly has no respect for freedom of the press. Here is arguably the top Christian bookstore in the country making a decision based on their teachings and applying it to a magazine. A spokesman for Lifeway Resources, which runs the stores, was quoted in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution last week as saying of female pastors, "It is contrary to what we believe."

So does Lifeway and, by extension, the Southern Baptist Convention, fight vigorously for freedom of religion, but it doesn't give a hoot about the other freedoms guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution?

I now wonder whether Lifeway makes it its business to cull through any number of magazines and search for stories that go against its doctrine and pull them from the shelves.

This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

The conduct of Lifeway and the Southern Baptist Convention is shameful, and they owe Hairston an apology for their actions. Yet she's taken it in stride, saying that instead of giving the company hell, she'll "give them heaven."

I say, give them a lot of hell for this, because they deserve it for actions.

Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

I hope you aren't saying you are supportive of the Southern Baptists' decision regarding 2 Timothy... It may be their right to pull the magazine from the racks (no argument there), but there is etiquette in business decisions that should be followed that help to avoid the kind of misgivings and animosity that are certainly generated by this situation.

Bill Maher may not be the most enlightened individual, but he can and often does point out just how ridiculous some religious organizations are. That it is the truth is not his fault.

I hope I followed all the new rules for posts

...its his stores...only thing is she can't give him heaven...not her's to give...

“We have removed the September/October issue of Gospel Today from our shelves because the cover story, featuring female pastors, clearly advocates a position contrary to our denomination’s statement of faith, the Baptist Faith & Message,” Chris Turner, a spokesman for Lifeway Resources, told The Christian Post.
Google this…
impoliteconversation.wordpress.com/feed/

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. People should eschew organized religions and follow their own paths precisely for reasons such as this. With few exceptions, organized religion boils down to money and power. Having women in positions of authority is obviously an affront to the Southern Baptist convention (as it is to much of Islam), and these folks are trying to hold on to the positions of power by any means possible. The sooner people stop believing stuff simply because the holy man or the holy book says so, I think we will start seeing a lot of our societal problems dry up and blow away.

I Googled Teresa Hairston to read more on the thread topic and found your blog(salaamsblog) attached to the story and read about the movies Obsession and The Third Jihad...if it weren’t for Salaams blog I would not have watched Obsession and The Third Jihad...thanks again...
Google these...

obsessionthemovie.com/index1.php

thethirdjihad.com/

Thanks again…

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. People should eschew organized religions and follow their own paths precisely for reasons such as this. With few exceptions, organized religion boils down to money and power. Having women in positions of authority is obviously an affront to the Southern Baptist convention (as it is to much of Islam), and these folks are trying to hold on to the positions of power by any means possible. The sooner people stop believing stuff simply because the holy man or the holy book says so, I think we will start seeing a lot of our societal problems dry up and blow away.

Being horrible to one another will not stop with an end to organized religion. Neither will human credulity or attempts to maintain hegemony. When religion is abused to justify abuses of power and human dignity, it is no less wrong than when science or logic were used to do the same. Also, it's interesting that you juxtapose the Southern Baptist Convention with Islam, as if any faith is as monolithic as a single, regional organization. Women have been in leadership positions in most, if not all faiths, and this has been challenged and supported by various scholars, organizations and texts.

quote:

Originally posted by sweetsuds:
Being horrible to one another will not stop with an end to organized religion. Neither will human credulity or attempts to maintain hegemony. When religion is abused to justify abuses of power and human dignity, it is no less wrong than when science or logic were used to do the same. Also, it's interesting that you juxtapose the Southern Baptist Convention with Islam, as if any faith is as monolithic as a single, regional organization. Women have been in leadership positions in most, if not all faiths, and this has been challenged and supported by various scholars, organizations and texts.

I believe if people were to wake up tomorrow with no recollection of organized religion and the biases that come with them, it would end most of the horrible behavior towards one another. Science and logic by nature are not in of themselves used to justify abuses, although there have been some who have abused people with a scientific theme (think of the Nazi doctors). My comparison to Islam was for the good Sgt, who is pointing to the evil done by the Southern Baptist Convention, while seeming to ignore that many Muslims would also not allow a woman in any kind of authority position over a man, particularly in the mosque. I understand that the times are a changing, but not in places like Afghanistan and Baluchistan, and certainly not in some parts of Iraq and almost all of Saudi Arabia and Yemen. I've not heard a woman's voice over the loudspeakers when the call to prayer goes out from the mosque next to us in Mansour, although it would be a nice surprise. When organized religions start teaching their adherents in a meaningful way that all people should be able to pray in a manner that they see fit, and that no way is wrong, then I'll believe that we are making progress in the road to tolerance. Otherwise (to me) it looks like mere window dressing.

Many forms of bigotry and exploitation have little to do with religion; it's the disregard of religious injunctions toward mercy and equitable treatment that enables people to mistreat one another. And if you say that:
"Science and logic by nature are not in of themselves used to justify abuses, although there have been some who have abused people with a scientific theme (think of the Nazi doctors)."
It then is equally true that religion by nature is not inherently used to justify abuses, but there are many who have abused people with a religious theme. And trust me, Sgt. Salaam does not ignore the sexism that many Muslims engage in; he's recently devoted a few of his radio shows to explore sexism in religious communities, Muslims included. And there are places where you can hear a woman call the adhan and lead prayer, but you have to hang around the right people- like me.
Seriously, one of the things that is disappointing me this Ramadan is that I don't have a woman-led Eid prayer to look forward to, unlike when I lived on the East Coast. Toronto, London, and some spots in Germany are good spots to find women-led prayers as well. Not sure about the ME- there are probably some women-led prayers, but they would be kept as quiet as the gay weddings, and even quieter than the key parties. (Hope I didn't surprise you.)

Nope, not at all surprised. I know that Iran is one of the more progressive nations in the region (regardless of what their own religious leaders who have one believe). I know that the rabid anti-Iran dogs here will probably lunge at me for saying that. Although their idiot prez. swears otherwise, I am aware that there is a thriving homosexual underground in Tehran, as well as Persian Muslims with a taste for imported whiskey and Heinekin.

Unfortunately, religion can be easily exploited to support bigotry and exploitation, especially in those who are easily influenced and can be made to feel included in something larger than themselves. A few years ago, while in London on a trip, I remember a news article about a madrassa that was being investigated by British police, and there were many young boys found in the school. Their lessons consisted of hours of rocking back and forth memorizing Quranic phrases. No math, no science, no philosophy, just reading passages from a book. I have no doubt this same thing occurs in any one of dozens of FLDS communities, as well as some mainstream Christian homes as well. No one faith has a monopoly on it. On the same trip I saw and listened to hoards of young radical Muslims being groomed at Speakers Corner by their older imam (dressed in a simple white robe with beard, texting on a cell phone - how clash of centuries that was).

Oh, the key parties and gay weddings happen in Saudia and Egypt. I'd be interested to see a comparison of these groups of young radicals with gangs- some of the same motivations and techniques are used, and both are sometimes rabidly misogynist.
About the madrassa in London: why were they being investigated? Simply teaching kids to memorize Qur'an isn't a crime, and if it wasn't the kids' only source of education, not even anything to worry about from an educational perspective. I know several parents here who send their kids to a private tutor or weekend school to memorize Qur'an, to supplement, not replace, their education.

The greatest acts of evil and the greatest acts of kindness can be attributed to religion. You can inflame a man to kill for material wealth or pride, but you can inflame nations to commit mass murder in the name of God.

There are Muslim communities, just like Christian communities, in which women have active leadership roles. Many people in America are just so naive that they really believe that all Muslim women are oppressed and that all Muslim nations are militantly religious. (I've recently had a strong desire to visit Turkey, just to see what it's like.)

But as far as the bookstore is concerned...

*sigh*

They've got the right to sell, or refuse to sell, whatever they want. I'm not surprised by their backwards thinking at all, honestly.

But likewise, I'd hope that intelligent modern Christians would be offended by this, and stop patronizing the bookstores.

quote:

Originally posted by sweetsuds:
Oh, the key parties and gay weddings happen in Saudia and Egypt. I'd be interested to see a comparison of these groups of young radicals with gangs- some of the same motivations and techniques are used, and both are sometimes rabidly misogynist.
About the madrassa in London: why were they being investigated? Simply teaching kids to memorize Qur'an isn't a crime, and if it wasn't the kids' only source of education, not even anything to worry about from an educational perspective. I know several parents here who send their kids to a private tutor or weekend school to memorize Qur'an, to supplement, not replace, their education.

The madrassa was actually outside London, somewhat further afield, although I don't remember the town. It was being investigated for having ties to terror, although that is an often ambiguous charge. I was in London months after the 7/7 bombings, and then 2 weeks after the 'liquid terror plot', and I can't remember which time it was that I saw this. It was a full time boarding school, and the article seemed to indicate there wasn't much, if any, other learning going on. I believe the madrassa was connected in some way to Hamza's mosque. Although British papers can be a bit over the top (big surprise), it did seem to indicate that this school was merely an extension of a radical mosque.

Radicals, gangs, extremist groups...they all use very similar methods to recruit. Take kids, make them feel bad about themselves, then bring them in to the group and become their family and friends.

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

If as with many types of printed material the store does not pay up front or gets a refund for unsold copies THEN it was their right to return the property (magazines) NOT to hide it so it could not be sold. In effect they STOLE the magazines and IMO the should be charged with theft.
Now if they paid for every copy up front and did not try to get a refund for unsold copies they were within their LEGAL rights.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rayld2,

quote:

Originally posted by sabow:

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

I hope you aren't saying you are supportive of the Southern Baptists' decision regarding 2 Timothy... It may be their right to pull the magazine from the racks (no argument there), but there is etiquette in business decisions that should be followed that help to avoid the kind of misgivings and animosity that are certainly generated by this situation.

Bill Maher may not be the most enlightened individual, but he can and often does point out just how ridiculous some religious organizations are. That it is the truth is not his fault.

I hope I followed all the new rules for posts

The current leadership of the SBC has a history of the end justifies the means when it comes to IMPOSING their beliefs on others.

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

If as with many types of printed material the store does not pay up front or gets a refund for unsold copies THEN it was their right to return the property (magazines) NOT to hide it so it could not be sold. In effect they STOLE the magazines and IMO the should be charged with theft.
Now if they paid for every copy up front and did not try to get a refund for unsold copies they were within their LEGAL rights.

if some one asked for a copy of Sep/Oct they would sell them one...only one issue was behind the counter...Sep/Oct...

quote:

Originally posted by whtetiger:

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

If as with many types of printed material the store does not pay up front or gets a refund for unsold copies THEN it was their right to return the property (magazines) NOT to hide it so it could not be sold. In effect they STOLE the magazines and IMO the should be charged with theft.
Now if they paid for every copy up front and did not try to get a refund for unsold copies they were within their LEGAL rights.

if some one asked for a copy of Sep/Oct they would sell them one...only one issue was behind the counter...Sep/Oct...

So they ONLY stole one issue. How ethical of them not to steal the others.
Anothe SBC "the end justifies the means" action.

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by whtetiger:

quote:

Originally posted by rayld2:

quote:

Originally posted by tawodi:
Well it's their right to do this. It's also my right to "vote with my feet" and they can stick it in a dark place!!

As for that pinhead Maher I can hardly wait for what he has to gac up....Got mops??

If as with many types of printed material the store does not pay up front or gets a refund for unsold copies THEN it was their right to return the property (magazines) NOT to hide it so it could not be sold. In effect they STOLE the magazines and IMO the should be charged with theft.
Now if they paid for every copy up front and did not try to get a refund for unsold copies they were within their LEGAL rights.

if some one asked for a copy of Sep/Oct they would sell them one...only one issue was behind the counter...Sep/Oct...

So they ONLY stole one issue. How ethical of them not to steal the others.
Anothe SBC "the end justifies the means" action.

If someone asked for the mag they gave it to them...the owner could have refused to sell the mag from that point own...his choice...

Wow, to get yer panties in a bunch over this is pretty ridiculous. . . . IMHO.

On the list of things to get upset about, this must be # 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, or thereabouts.

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:
Wow, to get yer panties in a bunch over this is pretty ridiculous. . . . IMHO.

On the list of things to get upset about, this must be # 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, or thereabouts.

Yep!

What several folks don't seem to grasp/understand/"get" is that the chain of stores is owned by the Southern Baptist Convention. S.B.Churches still believe the B I B L E as The Rule of Faith and Practice.

Modernists and Pentecostal groups have emerged in the last 100 years and either toss out verses that they don't like, or just ignore them, OR the most egregious thing is to find (or fund the printing) a Modern "New" translations/versions/editions which are "gender neutral", so that verses which tell us who should be ordained to the offices of Pastor and Deacon are obfuscated, and/or rejected outright.
{see 1st Timothy chapter 3. ,,,and while there at chapter 3 be sure and read verse 1 of chapter 4 !}

Good for those stores to do what they did!!! In a day and age when "Anything goes" and "If it feels good do it", and "Doctrine divides---We just want to lluuuvv people",,, It is refreshing to hear/read about some folks that still hold to The Word of God rather than having the spinal cords of Jelly fish..!

quote:

Originally posted by swremwin:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:
Wow, to get yer panties in a bunch over this is pretty ridiculous. . . . IMHO.

On the list of things to get upset about, this must be # 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, or thereabouts.

Yep!

What several folks don't seem to grasp/understand/"get" is that the chain of stores is owned by the Southern Baptist Convention. S.B.Churches still believe the B I B L E as The Rule of Faith and Practice.

Modernists and Pentecostal groups have emerged in the last 100 years and either toss out verses that they don't like, or just ignore them, OR the most egregious thing is to find (or fund the printing) a Modern "New" translations/versions/editions which are "gender neutral", so that verses which tell us who should be ordained to the offices of Pastor and Deacon are obfuscated, and/or rejected outright.
{see 1st Timothy chapter 3. ,,,and while there at chapter 3 be sure and read verse 1 of chapter 4 !}

Good for those stores to do what they did!!! In a day and age when "Anything goes" and "If it feels good do it", and "Doctrine divides---We just want to lluuuvv people",,, It is refreshing to hear/read about some folks that still hold to The Word of God rather than having the spinal cords of Jelly fish..!

quote:

Originally posted by swremwin:

quote:

Originally posted by SgtSchaeffersMom:
Wow, to get yer panties in a bunch over this is pretty ridiculous. . . . IMHO.

On the list of things to get upset about, this must be # 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000, or thereabouts.

Yep!

What several folks don't seem to grasp/understand/"get" is that the chain of stores is owned by the Southern Baptist Convention. S.B.Churches still believe the B I B L E as The Rule of Faith and Practice.

Modernists and Pentecostal groups have emerged in the last 100 years and either toss out verses that they don't like, or just ignore them, OR the most egregious thing is to find (or fund the printing) a Modern "New" translations/versions/editions which are "gender neutral", so that verses which tell us who should be ordained to the offices of Pastor and Deacon are obfuscated, and/or rejected outright.
{see 1st Timothy chapter 3. ,,,and while there at chapter 3 be sure and read verse 1 of chapter 4 !}

Good for those stores to do what they did!!! In a day and age when "Anything goes" and "If it feels good do it", and "Doctrine divides---We just want to lluuuvv people",,, It is refreshing to hear/read about some folks that still hold to The Word of God rather than having the spinal cords of Jelly fish..!

The current leadership of the SBC has shown by their ACTIONS that they believe that ANYTHING they do any LIE they tell is Ok as long as it helps them force others to follow THEIR rules. This dates back to when the so called conservative branch of the conference took over a couple of decades ago. They believe and PRACTICE that the end justifies the means and IMO the main goal they have is more POWER not the word of God.

Over time ALL organizations become more concerned about the organization and the power of the leadership than the purpose of the organization.

SABOW;

I didn't say I approved, did I??

I said it is their right,it's their store.

I said it is my right to vote with my feet in other words, walk out.

Others may feel differently, that is their right and not my place to argue with. To them their belief, to me mine.

Oh!! I almost forgot, Maher is STILL a pinhead!!

T

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. People should eschew organized religions and follow their own paths precisely for reasons such as this. With few exceptions, organized religion boils down to money and power. Having women in positions of authority is obviously an affront to the Southern Baptist convention (as it is to much of Islam), and these folks are trying to hold on to the positions of power by any means possible. The sooner people stop believing stuff simply because the holy man or the holy book says so, I think we will start seeing a lot of our societal problems dry up and blow away.

Mod hat off - sarcasm hat on

I couldn't agree more, my brother! Anarchy, FTW!

So, where do we start the succession of our new utopia?

The "treat others as you'd like to be treated" doctrine? Nah, that's too easy.

Oh, I know! "Obey the law of the land." Oh, screw that. What kind of anarchistic uprising applies laws made by our oppressors? My bad.

Hey, what about tolerance? After all, difference is not akin to a successful succession uprising. Let's put that one in the ballot box.

Huh? No ballots allowed because we 're no longer equal? Gotcha'. Sheesh, what was I thinking? Compressional Tactics keep getting to me.

I have faith that I'll get bette...

What's that?

Oh, DUH! What was I thinking! You can't have faith in anything intangible! That is totally within scripture, so hope and faith are out the window.

Love. Pfffffft. Talk about an abject term that is not tangible. We'll definitely do away with that post haste! All in favor say ay...

Oh, I forgot. Never mind. We'll wait for the leader mentor example dictator to tell us to ignore any personal beliefs.

Personally, I cannot wait to annihilate that whole silly "feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the injured and visit the imprisoned" thing. Let 'em suffer. I gots me mine.

And what's this crap about entertaining angels? Shouldn't I be allowed to treat everyone like crap? Angels, indeed. Like that whole Karma thing has any truth.

See, here's the way I look at it: We need no religious principles because, as cavemen, we did it the right way. Raping women, stealing, murdering, holding to no higher purpose than our selfish desires...

Why believe that we have a purpose other than that?

Let the anarchy reign!

[sarcasm off]

quote:

Originally posted by FollowMeInfantry:

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. People should eschew organized religions and follow their own paths precisely for reasons such as this. With few exceptions, organized religion boils down to money and power. Having women in positions of authority is obviously an affront to the Southern Baptist convention (as it is to much of Islam), and these folks are trying to hold on to the positions of power by any means possible. The sooner people stop believing stuff simply because the holy man or the holy book says so, I think we will start seeing a lot of our societal problems dry up and blow away.

Mod hat off - sarcasm hat on

I couldn't agree more, my brother! Anarchy, FTW!

So, where do we start the succession of our new utopia?

The "treat others as you'd like to be treated" doctrine? Nah, that's too easy.

Oh, I know! "Obey the law of the land." Oh, screw that. What kind of anarchistic uprising applies laws made by our oppressors? My bad.

Hey, what about tolerance? After all, difference is not akin to a successful succession uprising. Let's put that one in the ballot box.

Huh? No ballots allowed because we 're no longer equal? Gotcha'. Sheesh, what was I thinking? Compressional Tactics keep getting to me.

I have faith that I'll get bette...

What's that?

Oh, DUH! What was I thinking! You can't have faith in anything intangible! That is totally within scripture, so hope and faith are out the window.

Love. Pfffffft. Talk about an abject term that is not tangible. We'll definitely do away with that post haste! All in favor say ay...

Oh, I forgot. Never mind. We'll wait for the leader mentor example dictator to tell us to ignore any personal beliefs.

Personally, I cannot wait to annihilate that whole silly "feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the injured and visit the imprisoned" thing. Let 'em suffer. I gots me mine.

And what's this crap about entertaining angels? Shouldn't I be allowed to treat everyone like crap? Angels, indeed. Like that whole Karma thing has any truth.

See, here's the way I look at it: We need no religious principles because, as cavemen, we did it the right way. Raping women, stealing, murdering, holding to no higher purpose than our selfish desires...

Why believe that we have a purpose other than that?

Let the anarchy reign!

[sarcasm off]

Why, oh why do people automatically assume that without religion, people would rape, murder, steal from one another? Do you mean to tell me that the only thing that is keeping you from being a serial rapist or choosing to help the less fortunate is an invisible force that someone has sold you into believing will reward / punish you if you don't? Some of you must have very questionable morals if the only thing keeping you from being an anarchist is the threat of punishment for your 'sins'.

Google the ethic (or norm) of reciprocity and you will see that the concept of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is as old as most civilization. And, no, the concept was not invented by the authors of the Bible, or the Nicean Councils, or the prophet Mohammed, or anyone else that we can name. It is the basis for all people to try to get along regardless of the age in which they were in.

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by FollowMeInfantry:

quote:

Originally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. People should eschew organized religions and follow their own paths precisely for reasons such as this. With few exceptions, organized religion boils down to money and power. Having women in positions of authority is obviously an affront to the Southern Baptist convention (as it is to much of Islam), and these folks are trying to hold on to the positions of power by any means possible. The sooner people stop believing stuff simply because the holy man or the holy book says so, I think we will start seeing a lot of our societal problems dry up and blow away.

Mod hat off - sarcasm hat on

I couldn't agree more, my brother! Anarchy, FTW!

So, where do we start the succession of our new utopia?

The "treat others as you'd like to be treated" doctrine? Nah, that's too easy.

Oh, I know! "Obey the law of the land." Oh, screw that. What kind of anarchistic uprising applies laws made by our oppressors? My bad.

Hey, what about tolerance? After all, difference is not akin to a successful succession uprising. Let's put that one in the ballot box.

Huh? No ballots allowed because we 're no longer equal? Gotcha'. Sheesh, what was I thinking? Compressional Tactics keep getting to me.

I have faith that I'll get bette...

What's that?

Oh, DUH! What was I thinking! You can't have faith in anything intangible! That is totally within scripture, so hope and faith are out the window.

Love. Pfffffft. Talk about an abject term that is not tangible. We'll definitely do away with that post haste! All in favor say ay...

Oh, I forgot. Never mind. We'll wait for the leader mentor example dictator to tell us to ignore any personal beliefs.

Personally, I cannot wait to annihilate that whole silly "feed the hungry, house the homeless, heal the injured and visit the imprisoned" thing. Let 'em suffer. I gots me mine.

And what's this crap about entertaining angels? Shouldn't I be allowed to treat everyone like crap? Angels, indeed. Like that whole Karma thing has any truth.

See, here's the way I look at it: We need no religious principles because, as cavemen, we did it the right way. Raping women, stealing, murdering, holding to no higher purpose than our selfish desires...

Why believe that we have a purpose other than that?

Let the anarchy reign!

[sarcasm off]

Why, oh why do people automatically assume that without religion, people would rape, murder, steal from one another? Do you mean to tell me that the only thing that is keeping you from being a serial rapist or choosing to help the less fortunate is an invisible force that someone has sold you into believing will reward / punish you if you don't? Some of you must have very questionable morals if the only thing keeping you from being an anarchist is the threat of punishment for your 'sins'.

Google the ethic (or norm) of reciprocity and you will see that the concept of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is as old as most civilization. And, no, the concept was not invented by the authors of the Bible, or the Nicean Councils, or the prophet Mohammed, or anyone else that we can name. It is the basis for all people to try to get along regardless of the age in which they were in.

No, my friend. What I was (in satire) proving is that just because people BELIEVE in a religious doctrine -- theology -- it doesn't make them better or worse.

I simply turned your tactics against you. Your proclamation was that religion ruins the world. Mine is that it saves it.

Both are asinine statements of human behavior.

If you're going to lump religion into "money and power" (your words), why can't I lump unbelievers into anarchists and detriments to society?

Just proving a point about equality and judgment, my friend.

quote:

Originally posted by FollowMeInfantry:
[QUOTEOriginally posted by AKinNC:
[QUOTEOriginally posted by FollowMeInfantry:
[QUOTEOriginally posted by AKinNC:

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt_Salaam:
This is the kind of nonsense that drives more people away from religion. I suppose it's fitting that this story would come out the same time as Bill Maher releases his religious documentary, "Religulous," which skewers all the major religions for their dogma. I'm sure he feasted on positions of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You say this as ~SNIP~

And what's this crap about entertaining angels? Shouldn't I be allowed to treat everyone like crap? Angels, indeed. Like that whole Karma thing has any truth.

See, here's the way I look at it: We need no religious principles because, as cavemen, we did it the right way. Raping women, stealing, murdering, holding to no higher purpose than our selfish desires...

Why believe that we have a purpose other than that?

Let the anarchy reign!

[sarcasm off]

Why, oh why do people automatically assume that without religion, people would rape, murder, steal from one another? Do you mean to tell me that the only thing that is keeping you from being a serial rapist or choosing to help the less fortunate is an invisible force that someone has sold you into believing will reward / punish you if you don't? Some of you must have very questionable morals if the only thing keeping you from being an anarchist is the threat of punishment for your 'sins'.

Google the ethic (or norm) of reciprocity and you will see that the concept of 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you' is as old as most civilization. And, no, the concept was not invented by the authors of the Bible, or the Nicean Councils, or the prophet Mohammed, or anyone else that we can name. It is the basis for all people to try to get along regardless of the age in which they were in.[/QUOTE]

quote:

No, my friend. What I was (in satire) proving is that just because people BELIEVE in a religious doctrine -- theology -- it doesn't make them better or worse.

I simply turned your tactics against you. Your proclamation was that religion ruins the world. Mine is that it saves it.

Both are asinine statements of human behavior.

If you're going to lump religion into "money and power" (your words), why can't I lump unbelievers into anarchists and detriments to society?

Just proving a point about equality and judgment, my friend.

Good for you, FMI!!

quote:

Originally posted by FollowMeInfantry:
If you're going to lump religion into "money and power" (your words), why can't I lump unbelievers into anarchists and detriments to society?

Just proving a point about equality and judgment, my friend.

Uh, because there is no evidence that can be used to link non-believers with anarchy and detriments to society, except for your little made-up scenario?