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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military Scientific Proof of the Existence of God?|
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"Before you read any further, stop and close your eyes for a moment. Now consider the following question: for the moment your eyes were closed, did the world still exist even though you weren’t conscious of it? How do you know? If this sounds like the kind of unanswerable brain teaser your Philosophy 101 professor used to employ to stretch your philosophical imagination, you might be surprised to discover that there are actually physicists at reputable universities who believe they have answered this question—and their answer, believe it or not, is no."
Read the entire article here: "http://www.amitgoswami.org/scientific-proof-existence-god/ Ixcatl |
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Sarcastic Member |
Of course anyone who actually understands quantum physics is clinically insane.
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Highly Experienced Member |
Or horribly mistaken!  Actually, I googled him; it sounds as if he has suffered a crises of consciousness and is expounding on the Zen of Existentialism, and not on science!  It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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But on the other hand if the answer is a answer you do not agree with then of corse the person or persons that came up with it are crazy in your opinion. isnt that the way it works. I for one would be unable to tell you if the world existed except for the noise it continues to make. D.J. |
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Experienced Member |
What is that proof of? It's still an assumption. Can it be measured, tested and retested? Is this "scientific"?
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Highly Experienced Member |
My point precisely! It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Sarcastic Member |
Which is often indistinguishable from quantum physics. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
To the completely uninitiated maybe..., well, OK! Even to the reasonably well initiated!  Even so, he's hawking an awesome number of books he's penned on his flavor of spirituality! Agenda? You be the judge! It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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member |
O.K. the question is does reality, once it is not being observed, exist as it does under scrutiny....correct?
Well provably no, it doesn't. Observation has been proven to change reality at and slightly above the quantum level. BUT, for all practical purposes we can examine this phenomenae as well. Go to a super highway of at least four lanes of traffic, at rush hour. Stand on the curb....close your eyes....step off the curb!! Now this can be considered a test of TWO observable factors, One, does THAT reality continue? If it indeed does, you are now processed road food!! The other testable factor is of course the reaction time and effective avoidance techniques used by the drivers who are desparately trying to NOT convert you to road food!! You need not open your eyes to confirm that part of the theory!! Just listen, you will hear screaming brakes, crushing metal, as it assumes new and interesting shapes, in short, we shall see how the Mercedes bends and other things as well. The screams and curses of the wildly maneuvering drivers, crash victims and their inventive use of language, to describe you, your forebearers, possible future lineage...if any, and all kinds of other things as well. But you will also have incontrovertable proof that reality, by and large, does continue as before...YOU might not, but reality DOES!! T |
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Highly Experienced Member |
It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Member |
Bruce, The first portion of your post does not make sense and contradicts your conclusion in the last portion. In the same paragraph you claim it does affect and then say it doesn't:
Not only do you appear to contradict yourself, you also quantify the affect of observation in relation to a concept (Quantum Physics) that is arguably not understood at all, if not at a rudimentary level. Also, to exist, or not to exist is a completely different quantification from what is classified as simply changing. From oblivion to existence is a change, but to change does not necessarily mean to come into existence (from nothingness) or vice versa. Your freeway analogy is undeniably accurate and also highlights the self-centric approach most humans (even the religious) take with their existence: If I can't sense it, it doesn't exist. This part I get, but as for the rest, maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say...  |
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member |
O.K. the question is does reality, once it is not being observed, exist as it does under scrutiny....correct?
Cloud chamber experiments have had wildly unpredictable results many times. Well outside the Hiesenberg uncertainty principle parameters of statistical anomolies within that calculation range. It was a period of time before the experimenters decided to test whether or not this phenomnae was caused by "observation" which was postulated from other published papers. With no human observer only cameras they settled down to the calculated parameters. almost. Removing cameras resolved this even further. Why? I don't know, but it has been tested and proved an observable phenomenae and is considered when conducting various particle experiments in cloud chambers and elsewhere. A couple of years ago we discussed this on the threads and some of the guys thought I was full of sheep dip....not so, they found it, I think, by Googling it up. I remembered it from a paper I wrote back in the seventies while studying nuclear medicine on the way to trying to become a phs. assistant, which I gave up after the birth of my youngest son, the third kid in 1975. The example of the persistance of reality by using the road food anology I would think is crystal clear.....your reality will indeed change but will everybody else's? Postulate....NO IT WON'T!!! T |
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 "a seeker of the TRUTH always!" |
Brother, Your post made me go and read that article to understand your point. Well taken now but now I have a headache.  LJ |
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"a seeker of the TRUTH always!" |
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Does anything exist outside yourself in you close your eyes? This is kind of a Mary-Baker-Eddy sort of question, isn't it? Everything is mind?
Which begs the question: am I god? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Like I said: "The Zen of Existentialism!"  It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Experienced Member |
If everything is an illusion, then god must be an illusion as well?
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Highly Experienced Member |
Oooooooo! Good Catch!  It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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member |
Good catch??
If he hadn't looked up, the damned thing would have smashed him flat when it fell out of the sky at his feet!!! |
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Not getting the results expected because the observation itself changed the experiment only proves that they haven't conducted the experiment properly. If for, instance, the observation involves the absorption of photons, the observation changes the experiment, and a method must be devised to change the observation technique. What's so mystical about that?
I think it's the height of hubris to think that it matters a whit to the universe whether or not we see a thing. |
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? |
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Experienced Member |
As the bible says, "Where a tree falls, there it lieth."... The earth within that universe has carried on for billions of years before humans evolved to a point they were conscious of it and it will continue to do so with or without us. To think humans are the center of reality is ignorant conceit beyond comprehension. But the human imagination is limitless, creating explanations to every cause and effect they can find… even attributing it all to nonexistent things. Humans can believe absolutely anything. The brain is a terrible thing to waste. |
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member |
Yeah I seem to be regressing!
We were taught some of the old english spelling in grammer school and I still do it ocasionally....then go and look at it and find it in a modern dictionary and it's different!..Bummer... anyhoo I guess I should modernise and spell it phenomenon like every body else....NAHHH I refuse to be normal!!! And you are correct, that is a great definition of hubris to think like that! Although the last supernova was just to commerate my birthday ya know!! |
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Forums Metrics Management |
There are people who work tirelessly to attempt to find some meaning in life.
Let's hope that there are people out there who are able to assist others in need. This is an important consideration and it is essential that everyone take the needed time to get their belief systems together. We must respect others and insist that each of us work tirelessly to get the full measure of our freedom. "There are those who believe there are two types of people in the world: Those who believe there are two types of people; and those who don't." John Mahoney... |
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Finding the meaning of life....
How can you find the meaning of something that doesn't "mean" anything? It just is. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Yep! Life is it's own purpose for being; anything else is just gravy!
It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Experienced Member |
Ah, the meaning of life.... mine is just doing my best not to get board with it... life, that is. And I do like gravy.
(btw, "The Meaning of Life" is one of my favorite films.) |
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Highly Experienced Member |
 It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Life is like democracy. Nobody likes the smell of it, but everybody loves what it does for them. (Or was that sex. I forget.)
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Highly Experienced Member |
It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Religion In The Military Scientific Proof of the Existence of God?
