I work within the Federal Government and am a 80% Disabled Retired Vet. There was an opening for a position in Supply Warehouse, which I was highly qualified for with over 30 years experiance. I applied for the position, both internally and Externally and used my 10 point preferance. Along with me 2 other vets had applied, one being also disabled. We were all told that we had made the final list, me with a score of 105. The list went to the Warehouse manager and she selected a non-Vet for the position.
I went to the Union vet for this Agency and was told the following:
1. They have the right to select from either the internal or external list. If they select from the internal list, your veterans status does not count.
2. I was also told that the supervisor did not have to go by scores. If you made the final list, you are deemed qualified and they can pick anyone they want, no matter the experiance level.
3. I asked if I could appeal the decision and was told..You cannot appeal because someone was selected with less experiance and qualifications than you. They also said that yes, its not fair, but thats how it is!
This would not bother me as much, except the person selected is best friends with the selecting official! I even asked if I could appeal that and was told that you cant appeal that because they are not related.
Where do I stand on this? thanks
I'm in the same boat as you....I think? It will be interesting to hear some answers from the big guys here. I just applied for a DAC job that fits me perfect and I saw a friend just after that had applied for a dozen DAC jobs witin the last year and keeps getting passed over for people less qualified but from the inside. I thought that was against the rules but I hear about it all the time. I was felling good about the job until I heard that. My friend has the 10 pref. as well as me.....but it sounds like it might not matter.
Yeah, its got alot of us pretty upset here. I dont understand how they can choose to ignore the outside list, just to bypass vets. Whats really got me going is that both me and another guy made the final list from both the inside and outside list, but the one who got the job did not make the outside cut. You explain that too me. No one seems to know where it says that they can pick and choose and ignore vets. The more I look into it, the more fishy it gets. The place I work is so full of whole families that all got hired, its not even funny. I just want to find out where they get the right to choose to ignore the outside list from? Its got to be written somewhere. Good Luck
Wow! I was under the impression that nepotism was against the rules if not illegal in the Federal employment process. Here, you hear about people moving up thru the ranks to jobs there not qualified for with a large number of applicants that are fully qualified. My friend, which I mentioned, has a B.S. Degree and is almost done with his Masters and has been applying for GS6 and below jobs just to get into the system and that doesn’t seem to be working to good.
|Lead Moderator, Veterans Issues & Education |
To select a not perference qualified application, they need to clear it with OPM. I am not sure how internal candidates work in an open position, but I would contact OPM and ask.
I would do some checking but you need to know that stuff goes on out of sight in fed employment.
They have the right to pick who they decide is most qualified.
That leaves you with the burdon of proving you were discriminated against.
They also do not like having this thrown at them and it could have future consequences.
The only real successful moves I saw in my 37 years for internal reference were on a racial or sexual basis.
Just the facts.
Compition for fed jobs is tough, and it's up to you to sell yourself as the best choice to fill the job. That may not be possible if you are comming from the outside, even with a higher score. The scenero is this, a person retires creating an opening. The job gets advertised and people put in for it, it closes and the cert is given to the hireing official (HO). You have a 100 score,and are number 1. The person with a 96 score already works there and is covering the retired persons position till it.s filled. The HO reviews the applications and his choice is this. He has a qualified person doing that job now and is doing a good job, he knows that person, everyone likes that person. He fits into the organization real well. A known entity.
Then theres you with a higher score and possibily others as well. You are qualified, but in reality your an unknown entity. Only after a few months will he be secure in his dicision to pick you, and he hast to train you.
HO's are responsible to keep his organization running as well as he can. It's his job and he is going to do that as best he can.
He's going to pick the known entity.
You as the loser in this see favoritism but in reality it is the best choice. You have a higher score but realy you are not better qualified.
For every choosen applicant there are several
unhappy not chosen.
It's easy to claim favoritism, unfairness and such, and whine about it. You want to complain and fight the powers that be. That is a negative approach and will get you nothing.
Use a positive approach. Find out if they have interns, if they do go work for free for a while. Get known
get seen in action. Find the HO call him and ask questions about the job, show interest.
Getting in is hard but it can be done
Get it done
I worked in a federal job following retirement from the air force. I know there is a whole lot of brother-in-law stuff going on, and all of the time.
Can't say it doesnt happen. People are people.
Sometimes that looks damming at first glance but is not always the case. Sometimes the brother in law is realy the best choice.
I do know this. That hireing official's primary concern is the operation of his organization. It's his job. It's his responsibility. He has higher up's he answers to. He's not going to put his own job at risk to help out somebody, by hireing someone unqualified
This happens to many people. sometimes the best do not get jobs / promotions because they are not one who stands out but works harder than most. There is not much any one can do about this problem. Oh you can raise hell but then you would be marked, as a trouble maker.
I say just be happy you have a job and are abled to work. Many disabled Veterans can not work. Some could but are not given a chance do work. They must live on their V.A. check - (SSD)
This is a away of life and must be accepted for them. I suggest you move on with your life. Sometimes things happen for a reason? Maybe there is a better job for you and you need to wait on it ??
Hutch-- My opinion!! Just live life, for you are lucky to have one? For many gave their lives!!
I applied for a position in a job that was exactly like what I had done in the Army. As a matter of fact, this job was only a couple of doors down from where I worked before. I made sure my resume was almost a carbon copy of the job description since I had already done the job. I even qualify for the 10 point 30%+ disabled veteran preference. However this is what I saw online in regards to my self nomination:
"You were not referred for this position because you were not in the group of best qualified candidates."
I can't see how I didn't even get a interview, does anyone have a idea of what could have gone wrong?
When the job closes. The app's are graded and given a score. The hireing official (HO) is given what is called the certification (or cert), that is the 10 + the number of openings top scoreing applications (1 job = 11 app's) sent to the HO for review.
The HO does not even see the others.
Given that you were not even refered. You did not make it on the cert. Other people had higher scores.
I know this is all very frustrating but bear with me.
As you have done the job I can only assume your lower score was a result not of your skills but rather your application writing.
You mentioned carbon copy as the way you wrote and thats good. You need all those buzz words to be there. Now expand on that, the more times you use the buzz words the higher score you get.
You gotta toot your own horn here to the fullest. You haft to write it, the people that grade these things have no actual knowledge of your job and will assume nothing.
This may seem a little rediculous but the fact is your compition is doing it and you did not make the cert.
My last application was 18 pages long.
Writing these things is an art. Master this art and you can have any job you want.
|Suspended until further notice.|
I successfully argued that my Agency had discriminated against me because of my Service Connected Disability but it took getting turned down for 18 different jobs, all over the country, many of which I didn't want. The Union could be your worst enemy depending on thier objectives
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