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New Member |
I would like to know how many vets are in this situation:
In 1992 the AF offered a SSB to separate. prior to separation, On December 31, 1992 I recived the SSB less the IRS payment. Later on 15 Apr I was required to pay IRS another payment from the SSB. I joined the US AF Reserves. Under the terms of the separation, should I return to Active Duty the Air Force would recollect the SSB. In 2001, after 9/11, My Commander requested that I return to Active Duty to support the WAR effort. I was told by my finance clerk that since I had been out longer than 7 years that the SSB that I recieved in 1992 had been resolved. Which I accepted at face value, however over the next 4 years of my active duty assignment no meantion of an SSB repayment. I retired in Sept 2005, VA inform me in October that they would begin to withhold my disability pay to repay the SSB. In March 2006 I recieved a letter from DFAS stating that they would begin the collection of the SSB bonus. The next week my entire retirement net pay was taken. (that was a very hard week). When I questioned the VA about the DFAS withdrawal, they told me that the VA and DFAS were separate systems and that I would have to inform them when the total of the two collection streams would equal the amount of the debt. This month I informed both DFAS and VA that their collection amounts plus the amount paid to IRS are now exceeding the amount of the SSB. I was told (by DFAS)that the amount to IRS did not count towards the repayment, therefore the repayment would continue for another year. I need to know how many VETS are facing this double jeopary collection by DFAS? We need to expose this crime to our legistlators in order for the public law to be amended? VETS we need each other... Shack |
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Super Member 'Save the cheerleader, save the world' Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly. Leave the rest to God. I'm freakin' crippled now. My butt-knuckle is killing me. |
Moving to the Veteran's Issues section of the Boards by 7am CST.
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New Member |
This scenario sounds all too familiar. Any information would be appreciated. Will VSI be treated the same way at retirement? I was out of Active Duty for just shy of ten years and returned to Active Duty. Am rapidly approaching retirement and would like a heads up on what to expect.
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New Member |
OK...all I remember them saying was that IF you went into the reserves and retired tehy would recoup the SSB at 70% of your retirement pay per month. But, what I've run into now is in making My claims with the VA, they say they will recoup all the SSB out of My disability payments before I receive any of the money! Way I see it is the money they payed us when we seperated under that SSB was for the years we spent in already, not for years served afterwards or disabilities receieved while we were in. I'm looking for information on who to write/call whatever to see if I can fight that. Everyone I talked to thinks it's NOT right they make us repay the SSB. ANyone got any info out there on this?????
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Lead Moderator, Veterans Issues Forums davem-milcom @cinci.rr.com Founding Member DVG  |
The law requires the VA to deduct all separation payments before making disability payments.
From DFAS: Severance Pay/Separation Pay: A member who receives non-disability severance pay, separation pay, special separation benefit (SSB) or voluntary separation incentive (VSI) who later qualifies for retired pay will repay an amount equal to the total amount of separation pay received. The amount of repayment will be computed when retired pay is established. From the VA: WASHINGTON, January 25, 1999 (GulfLINK) - An amendment to existing legislation will make thousands of disabled veterans eligible for a refund from the Department of Veterans Affairs. Others will be receiving disability compensation payment much earlier than previously anticipated. The revision affects those veterans who accepted the lump sum Special Separation Benefit during the force drawdown and later qualified for V.A. disability compensation. Previous legislation mandated that recoupment of the after tax withholding amount would apply only to those SSB payments received on or after October 1, 1996. Those received prior to October 1 had to be recouped based on the gross amount paid. The amendment provides for recoupment of the amount paid after withholding for federal income tax and includes SSB payments made between December 5, 1991 to October 1, 1996. Federal law prohibits veterans from receiving concurrent payment of both V.A. disability pay and service retirement or separation pay. When veterans who receive service or separation pay are found to be eligible for additional disability compensation, the V.A. withholds payment long enough to recoup the amount of the full separation pay. For example, if a separating member qualifies for an SSB of $40,000 and $10,000 was withheld for federal income taxes, the VA would withhold compensation until the entire $40,000 was recouped. In 1996 Congress agreed that it was unfair to tax veterans for money they never received and changed the law to limit the amount of money that can be recouped to the net amount paid after federal income tax is withheld. To use the example above, the member who received $30,000 after taxes, will now be able to receive VA benefits after that $30,000 is exceeded. According to Ken McKinnon, a V.A. spokesperson, despite the fact that the amendment was passed in June, many veterans are not aware of the change. "The V.A.'s 58 regional offices were notified in August and they have been working in coordination with the Department of Defense to identify those veterans who have been affected," he said. The V.A. urges that veterans be insistent when making a request for repayment. Requests for an adjustment of an after tax recoupment balance must be accompanied by documentation showing the amount that was withheld for federal income taxes. "Veterans who believe they are entitled to a refund should contact their local V.A. office at 1-800-827-1000 and request assistance in obtaining a refund of overpayments," says McKinnon. |
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New Member |
Sweet!! Now I'll only be 76 years old instead of 103 when I can collect my VA disability pay!
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New Member |
As to answer part of your question you can request the amount you paid for taxes back under direction of the Veterans Act of 1998, it was determined that taxes not recieved Did Not need to be repay. As to your retirement now of 20 years. As Congress a few years ago mandated that Retirement Pay and Disablity Pay were seperate and that a Retiree can recieve both as long as your Retirement was 20 years or more. That means that the VA should not be with-holding any monies from you. Only your regular retirement pay should be touch. Atleast this is to your benefit as Disability Pay is non-taxable. As for I have a few questions that you or someone here may be able to answer. I'm currently researching info on the VSI, SSB, and Early Retirement, (15-19 Yrs) from the
1992-95 Draw Down. My interest in this are as follows: I've been told that Congress has several years ago agreed to pay 20+ year Veterans their Retirement Pay and Disability Pay. My concern is why did this policy change not include those that choose to exit under the above named programs. Did not all that left, serve their country as well? To qualify for the programs you had to be in service at-least 15 years. These programs are still Military Pay as is Retirement Pay. Why would we be excluded from this change. OK, money.......right. My decision was to take the SSB, I wanted to start a business. In a few years I began having many medical problems that actually forced me in bankruptcy. Along with no being able to work and paying for doctors because the VA would not recognize my injuries even though they were documented in my medical file. It took me 11 years to payback the SSB from my Disability Pay before receiving a dime. Not only did they take what I really received after taxes, but the full amount. I am now requesting an audit from the VA to recoup the taxes paid. What I need , if possible is all info on this change, ie,bill names, dates approved, dates when veterans started receiving both payments as authorized by Congress. If there is anyone/group trying to have these Vets that left the military under these programs, I would like that also. If not, I am per suing this myself and already talking with a legal firm in North Carolina in a possible Class Action. With the SSB payback and additional medical cost and the long delays from the VA to approve a Service-Connected Disability, this has cost me over $100,000.00. I have not worked in over 5 years now, about to have back surgery, 5 surgeries in 5 years, well, I think you can figure my situation out. Any help with this is greatly appreciated. |
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New Member |
What a smack in the face.. You should take this up with your Congressmen/Senator.
This kind of thing is something that needs to be on the sites... An active duty soldiers surviaval guide. I am sure had you known any of this you would not have gone back to active duty and worked for free. And you did ask the right question, you just got the wrong answer. And it cost the government nothing to give you the wrong answer. |
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New Member |
Anyone know a good lawyer or law firm that would take this up "pro-bono"? I think us veterans that took the "early-out" are getting screwed over, look how long it took them to realize they were screwing over retires!!! Way it's going now, I won't see a dime of My disability pay until after I'm dead.
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Lead Moderator, Veterans Issues Forums davem-milcom @cinci.rr.com Founding Member DVG |
You can not sue the US Government for a law they did not pass or a law you do not like.
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New Member |
At present only retirees rated at 100% disability are receiving full retirement and disability payments. Those rated from 50 to 90 percent are having there full compensation phased in over several years through CRDP. Retirees rated at less than 50% are still forfieting dollar for dollar from their rtierment to cover their disability compensation. |
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New Member |
I'm not talkiung about sueing the government, I'm talking about getting them to look at the laws and DOD regulations governing recoupment of SSB and changing them. Like I said before, we were under the impression the SSB received upon discharge was for "time served in the service" not for any disabilities or time served at a later date. I did not retire, however I am rated at 80% service connected with 20% umemployability and I don't get a dime until it's all payed back. Now, can anyone tell me that's fair? |
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New Member |
Public Law, 10 USC 1174h establishes two conditions one effecting retired pay under subparagraph 1. which requires DFAS to recoup the "full amount" of the SSB from retired pay. The other effecting disability pay under Subparagraph 2 requires the VA to collect the Net amount (after tax) amount from disability pay. Unless the "disability which is the basis for that disability compensation was incurred or aggravated during a later period of active duty. Therefore we have two different agencies collecting the same debt using two different payoff criteria one based on the Gross (DFAS) the other based on the NET (VA). Does the Government really mean to place veterans in a "double jeopary" situation? ---Shack
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New Member |
Dave....2 questions Is there anyway to find out how many veterans are in this double jeopary situation? I understand that the VA is the key in this situation, What is the best way to evaluate the situation? |
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Lead Moderator, Veterans Issues Forums davem-milcom @cinci.rr.com Founding Member DVG |
Your Member of Congress should be able to get this from the VA.
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 Derelict Veterans Group |
My situation is just the opposite from most of these comments. I was discharged from the Navy under the VSI program. 16 years as a fire control technician first class. I began receiving va disability in 93 and dfas has taken my vsi every year since. I agree with the gentleman who stated he was being paid for years served. I have written my senator about this over a year ago. It is my opinion I will never see any of my VSI. My primary concern is the VA now and I will apply and appeal till I die.
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New Member |
First, I was told by the VA that the SSB was not a debt. I differ to say yes it is, why they would even say this kills me. They are afterall recouping the money back and that defines a Debt to me. Anyway I know a guy who took mthe SSB in 1992, now he is collecting 30% from the VA and yes, they are taking it all back till SSB is repaid. This man also is having a serious hardship, not able to work or provide for his family at all, even his Doctor´s letter say it. With all that said they still take all of his money. Can´t DFAS or DoD recoup this money back by prorating the amount so the Veteran can at least have something to live on? Hell Bush is asking for $70B dollars more for the war can´t DoD at least come of just a litle money for this guy? THey act like this is going to break the back that is already broke! This looks like an issue for the laywers or his Congressman/Senators.
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New Member |
I have recently found a post at Mod Edit: (LINK Removed - Violation of TOS) concerning this subject. It is almost a year old. The gist is that the Senate Armed services committee was looking at changing the law. I sent an email to Saxby Chambliss to see if it is still in their sights.
I'm in the situation where I was recalled to AD after 10 years of receiving VSI. I have now over 20 years in and will continue the fight as long as the country needs me to do so. The issue is when I retire the law says the VSI I received for staying fit and ready to deploy will all be recouped. I also did a search and found that the Retired Officer Association had one of its top priorities for their lobbyists was changing the recoupment requirements. Don't know how far that has gotten. This subject is high on my list considering it is likely to cost me $82,000 to get my retired pay. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave_M, |
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New Member |
I've been repaying my SSB to VA since Jan 1994. I've recently been given a higher disability rate but it will still be a long time before I pay back ALL of the money (disabled since 1994). I sure wish something could be done.
Mike Armstrong |
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New Member |
I took the SSB. N Lu of retirement (1995). A couple of years ago I nearly died from a service connected injury. Post op VA granted 50% + 10 for total of 60%. VA is treating it as retirement pay and withholding 100% until repayment. I currently can't hold down a job and my family and I are now homeless. I was two years from 20 yr retirement. I was never informed that subsequent retirement included VA disability pay and was never given the life or death poteintial of my medical condition. Nor was I offered medical retirement. I've sent appeals letters to everyone from regional boards to The Secretary of Defense and everyone in between and still making CP exams when scheduled. I'm going to fight this until I win justice or die and my wife will continue if I die first!!! Con-current receipt law or not!! We need numbers. How many have gotten SSB/VSI and are having it taken back or have had it taken back? How can I get this type info?
Hey! We've (my wife and I)contacted Senators and Congressmen. All this discussion sounds great and its a good start. I don't think Our government gives a dam about one veteran and his or her family. We're just a number, but many can bring about change even in out dated laws that are being used to rob Veterans, one is the start. If 300 manufacture workers can move banks and the government: how about 100's to 1000's of veterans? I am still prepared to defend this great country if called on as I know most of you are. This is a fight for us and those that are currently serving. We have to demand that the system to do the right thing. We can make sure it does the right thing. Numbers count, because we know there's flesh and blood behind them!! This message has been edited. Last edited by: TEC49, |
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