It has been almost a month since the last reply to anything in the CAP portion of this forum.

Military.com is a prominent site in the military community and is very active, however, our portion is not.

Just a quick poll to find out why and maybe start a new discussion to start the pulse again. Please feel free to post, civily, your comments.

Question:
What is the main reason that you don't post here?

Choices:
Too much negativity from the posters
Nothing of real value, information wise, being posted
There are other forums better suited to our needs/interests
There is a lack of respect and civility among this sections members
Not enough activity to warrant me visiting frequently
Other - I've listed it below

 

A lack of quality information, or discussion topics.

Basically, this forum has been dominated by one person and his incessant whining about CAP uniforms, and how he is attempting to live out an Air Force Officer fantasy, once he joins back up... I've watched other, intelligent posters announce leaving, simply due to this person.

It seems that there are too many people on here that only complain about how CAP is not the Air Force. It's more of a whine-forum, rather than a discussion forum.

There are some outstanding posters, such as johca and Lordmonar. They always have good input.

I eyeball this forum everyday, hoping that something useful will show up. Maybe a thread about experiences on SAR missions, good and bad. Or, an equipment advice thread, what has worked/not worked. Or, something about orienteering, or field skills. Or, a thread on mentoring the cadets.

I'll take my own advice and start up a new one. Lets see what happens. Help me out, guys.

That's actually the main reason that I don't post as much. Some like the person you are talking about. He even went to the AF forums to ask about the reversed flags where I'm sure they don't care one way or the other. He also went to the SDF forum to complain about his state's SDF.

It was his personal therapy session each and every day...wish the moderator would just block him altogether.Ditto for the kid whose mommy would not let him join until Valentine Day - Gawddd...

HAHAHA. Holy mackerel!! It sure has picked up! The Ranger argument is blazing away. Again.

quote:

Originally posted by GeneSchubeck:
HAHAHA. Holy mackerel!! It sure has picked up! The Ranger argument is blazing away. Again.

Not really. Since I never went through CAP Ranger training or a CAP member, I can only ask why the qualification and training policies in the CAP regulations do not mention ranger qualifications and duties. It is beyond doubt CAP Rangers exist as also exists the training that must be accomplished to be considered a CAP Ranger. What is being questioned by me is what is the exact role and utilization of rangers in the real world and if the CAP organization actually holds CAP Rangers in some elite status or classification.

I'm only reexamining the personal belief influencing the perception CAP Ranger is elite and the personal response when asked why, is--rangers are elite because they are trained to be elite and those who are not part of the elite group are unable to appreciate how the training makes one elite.

In actuality it is both possible and probable CAP Rangers provides challenging training and tasks experience that completion of adds knowledge and skills to the members experience. The question is how well and often in real world this results in the making of elite who are the better and stronger to lead others because the asserted purpose of ranger training is to create leaders and not produce the better qualified ground team members.

Being an effective and competent leader when adverse conditions and situations exist is much more complicated than completing a curriculum of training and education. It certainly is more than having more experience too. The officer versus NCO training and experience analogy is both incorrect and inaccurate. It was this analogy that drew me into the conversation.

The CAP Ranger training is not provided to fulfill the individual’s destiny to become an elite ground team leader, the training is provided to fulfill a training obligation to be able to deploy better qualified volunteers who hopefully have enough physical stamina, knowledge of the outdoors, and search experience to actually be useful. Considering the purpose of the Ranger training is make the more useful CAP ground team responder, the being a Ranger is also probably the elite of the Civil Air Patrol Ground Search and Rescue Service. It is the does this always or often make the Ranger the best leader choice that is being questioned. Leading experience is not developed through occasional training to be a leader. Being in charge of others has to be often. Effective and efficient leading not only requires the leader to be confident in him self or her self, those being led also need to have confidence in the leader. Claiming a qualification doesn’t build or sustain such team confidence.

Passionately defending an assertion is not the same as accurately explaining with facts in their exact arrangement and proportions. It is primarily CAP cadets asserting completing ranger training is the becoming a member of an elite and this perception results from a narrow perception of self needing fulfillment urging the passion to make the training more to confirm their hoped for potential than to understand the training is nothing more than a foundation that needs more built onto it.

I’m providing an adventure in thinking that may or may not be appreciated, but in a minimal way is adding to a foundation.

I really wish I would see forums on here about CAP and the stuff they do I don't really know much about CAP and being an Air Force active-duty person I am insterested in why there is CAP and what they do and why would they want to basically be the air force without actually being active-duy, guard, or reserve.

quote:

Originally posted by Chief_Me:
I really wish I would see forums on here about CAP and the stuff they do I don't really know much about CAP and being an Air Force active-duty person I am insterested in why there is CAP and what they do and why would they want to basically be the air force without actually being active-duy, guard, or reserve.

Chief,

I think if you check out the Wikipedia article on CAP or go to any of the CAP websites (start with www.gocivilairpatrol.com or www.cap.gov), you will see that CAP does a lot of things.

A lot of Emergency Services including SAR and disaster relief;

A terrific Cadet Program for young folks from 12-21;

And a lot of aerospace education for teachers, our members, and the general public.


Note that there isn't a lot of overlap here between the CAP and USAF Missions, so it probably is not acurrate to assume that they want to "be the air force without actually being active-duty, guard, or reserve."

(Of course, a lot of us are or were AD and/or or reserve component folks. And a fair number of AD and USAFR types are assigned to support CAP as their primary duties.)


And if you look back to our early days just before and after Pearl Harbor, you will see that a lot of our folks were ineligible to join the service for various reasons including age, disability, etc., so they found CAP as a very real way to volunteer their time and efforts in the defense of our nation. Some CAP members engaged in direct combat with the enemy, and some members lost their lives while in CAP service.

Once you've had a chance to check us out, I'm confident that you will find out that we are not in some sort of competition with our USAF brethren -- both organizations have important missions. I suppose that some of us might be described as "wannabee's," depending on how you define the term. After all, a considerable number of our cadets go on to enlist or commission in the AF or other services.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your question.

And thank you for your service.

Ned Lee
Lt Col, CAP
Cadet Programs Officer

johca,
I don't think anyone is saying that being a CAP ranger makes someone the "best leader", but from my experience it does make cadets into much better leaders and ground team members/leaders etc...
Because HMRS is located in PA, most rangers are in PAWG and it is my belief that they are considered "elite" by most of the cadets and seniors in the wing who have real-world experience working with them.

quote:

Originally posted by peter_r_six:
johca,
I don't think anyone is saying that being a CAP ranger makes someone the "best leader", ...

quote:

The Rangers are pretty much the elite of the Civil Air Patrol Ground Search and Rescue Service. As their motto suggests, it is their job to lead the ground team with their expansive experience in Search and Rescue.
---
The thing is, it is the Rangers specific duty to lead a Ground Team through experience and example. By saying they are elite, I did not mean that as a blanket statement saying they are so much better than GTM Qualification holders, (which Rangers are, btw) I simply meant that they go through much more training than the Average GTM to become more familiar with the material and techniques than the Average. Please do not take my statements as an insult to GTM members!
---
And you will see the TCs, black belts, and other higher ranking Rangers exercising and learning how to lead the Ground Team, because that is what the Rangers are or are learning to be. The leaders of the Ground Team! They are trained every day on that mountain to be the most knowledgable, most experienced, most proficient out of all other GTM that they will be leading on SAR missions. This is their duty! Why do you think that the Ranger program was adopted? It was started to give cadets thorough training in SAR technique that would enable them to act as competent leaders in the program, and were dubbed Rangers for their dedication, motivation, and high quality. That is why so many GTs are lead by Rangers. It is what they were trained for.
---
They have the training to be the elite of the Ground Search and Rescue Service. And when comparing Ranger to GTM with Specialty qualifications such as med., it is to be understood that it will be compared with a Ranger holding the same qualification. This is the view that many other and I hold because of what we have been taught and have experienced.

However, this discussion is another topis thread. No need to duplicate it here.

quote:

Originally posted by 4977590:

quote:

Originally posted by Chief_Me:
I really wish I would see forums on here about CAP and the stuff they do I don't really know much about CAP and being an Air Force active-duty person I am insterested in why there is CAP and what they do and why would they want to basically be the air force without actually being active-duy, guard, or reserve.

Chief,

I think if you check out the Wikipedia article on CAP or go to any of the CAP websites (start with www.gocivilairpatrol.com or www.cap.gov), you will see that CAP does a lot of things.

A lot of Emergency Services including SAR and disaster relief;

A terrific Cadet Program for young folks from 12-21;

And a lot of aerospace education for teachers, our members, and the general public.


Note that there isn't a lot of overlap here between the CAP and USAF Missions, so it probably is not acurrate to assume that they want to "be the air force without actually being active-duty, guard, or reserve."

(Of course, a lot of us are or were AD and/or or reserve component folks. And a fair number of AD and USAFR types are assigned to support CAP as their primary duties.)


And if you look back to our early days just before and after Pearl Harbor, you will see that a lot of our folks were ineligible to join the service for various reasons including age, disability, etc., so they found CAP as a very real way to volunteer their time and efforts in the defense of our nation. Some CAP members engaged in direct combat with the enemy, and some members lost their lives while in CAP service.

Once you've had a chance to check us out, I'm confident that you will find out that we are not in some sort of competition with our USAF brethren -- both organizations have important missions. I suppose that some of us might be described as "wannabee's," depending on how you define the term. After all, a considerable number of our cadets go on to enlist or commission in the AF or other services.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your question.

And thank you for your service.

Ned Lee
Lt Col, CAP
Cadet Programs Officer

Thanks that is really cool. When I decide to separate of if I decide to retire from the AF I will have to seriously consider CAP it sounds like a good program.