quote:

Originally posted by JimmyDeano:
According to the interim change letter that is out there now, only the black Army windbreaker is authorized.

quote:

Originally posted by JimmyDeano:
Wear the black A2 jacket.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
As I have read the policy letter the black windbreaker is authorized for wear only with the Aviator Shirt Uniform with the blue AF slacks. For the gray slacks version you can still wear the blue AF gabardine sweater for now but not the black windbreaker. Somebody please show me if I'm wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
As I have read the policy letter the black windbreaker is authorized for wear only with the Aviator Shirt Uniform with the blue AF slacks. For the gray slacks version you can still wear the blue AF gabardine sweater for now but not the black windbreaker. Somebody please show me if I'm wrong.

As I understand it, you are correct. Seems kind of backwards though, doesn't it? You can wear black with blue, but not black with grey.

Unfortunately, when it comes to a windbreaker you will have to either wear the CAP distinctive service uniform or find a civilian one to wear with the grey and whites. The black Army windbreaker is a military clothing item not approved for wear with the grey and whites. I wish it was authorized, though; black goes a heckuva lot better with grey than it does with blue.

The grey and white aviator shirt uniform can be worn with any civilian outerwear, however (and please correct me if I am wrong) either the blue AF cardigan or pullover sweater can be worn. If you are going to wear a sweater with this uniform, I recommend one of those two.

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Hopefully, the black Army outerwear will be switched to the grey and whites and the blue AF outerwear will be switched to the CAP distinctive service dress uniform, but for now we'll just have to wait and see.

Think about it: if you can wear the black A-2 aviator jacket with the CAP distinctive service uniform, there is no reason why the blue AF outerwear can't also be worn with that uniform. This is especially true considering that the AF allows the wear of the blue AF sweater with the grey and white aviator shirt uniform.

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to wear the blue AF windbreaker, sweater, or topcoat/all-weather coat with the CAP distinctive service uniform. The white aviator shirt underneath is actually more concealed with the A-2 than it is with the windbreaker, and certainly more concealed than with either of the sweaters. And as far as the topcoat/all-weather coat goes... well, why not just wear blue AF epaulets as they are worn on the aviator shirt?

So have only black Army outerwear for wear with the grey and whites, and only blue AF outerwear for wear with the CAP distinctive service uniform. That sounds fair, doesn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by piperdriver:
Are you the

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I want to be able to wear them both. I already bought the darn sweater.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:

quote:

Originally posted by piperdriver:
Are you the

No, not at all sir. When I said "You can wear black with blue, but not black with grey" I was making a statement, not a request. I was commenting on CAP's backwards policy regarding the color of outerwear on the distinctive service uniforms.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I wish the real decision makers read this stuff; I suppose some of them do. At the "Boards" who gets to propose and who gets to vote? Is it the BOG and the wing commanders?

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I think some of them look at us like we're children and get a good laugh.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I would invite them to consider that all this fuss wouldn't take place if they hadn't changed the Corporate Uniform from one to two, and continue to make caveats that make it more confusing.

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Originally posted by billford1:
I would ask them if they think unit cohesion is important? If the answer is yes then they should consider all the things that keep the long time and newer volunteers hanging on; fats and fuzzies included.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
Uniforms wouldn't have become such an albatross if they hadn't caused it with what is perceived to be a cavalier perspective when considering the feelings of the volunteers whose pay is mostly intangible.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
If the wing, region and national decision makers want to make uniforms a non issue then they need to derive a formula giving consideration to LTC White's post. They should be more interested in what it takes for CAP not to be a laughing stock. This to me means unit cohesion. Yes looking like one team.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I wish the real decision makers read this stuff; I suppose some of them do. At the "Boards" who gets to propose and who gets to vote? Is it the BOG and the wing commanders?

I don't know, but I would imagine that the CAP Uniform Board is nowhere near as benevolent orrepresentative of what the organization wants/needs as the Air Force Uniform Board is.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I think some of them look at us like we're children and get a good laugh.

I think some of the personnel in the Air Force look at CAP like they're children and get a good laugh. And it's all because of the incompetence, lack of accountability, and lack of professionalism in this organization.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I would invite them to consider that all this fuss wouldn't take place if they hadn't changed the Corporate Uniform from one to two, and continue to make caveats that make it more confusing.

Would they care? I mean, if they allowed this whole mess to happen in the first place, what incentive would they have to care about what the members think? Remember, the CSU (aka "TPU") was created with Tony Pineda in mind, and not the membership. Can anyone say, dictatorship?

Instead of making a uniform that looks more like an Air Force uniform while also making the Air Force happy, the CAP Uniform Board (or something like it at the time) created a uniform - with virtually no member input - that was designed to fulfill one man's need to wear real general's stars on the uniform. A real embarassment, if you ask me.

I looked at all the events surrounding the creation of the CSU, and thought to myself "this is happening in America?"

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
I would ask them if they think unit cohesion is important? If the answer is yes then they should consider all the things that keep the long time and newer volunteers hanging on; fats and fuzzies included.

That is why I would like to see the CSU be authorized for all members, including the fat and fuzzies. There is no reason not to allow them to wear this uniform. It is a CAP distinctive uniform for goodness sake! Get rid of the grey service uniform, and make the CSU the official CAP equivalent to all the AF service and dress uniforms.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
Uniforms wouldn't have become such an albatross if they hadn't caused it with what is perceived to be a cavalier perspective when considering the feelings of the volunteers whose pay is mostly intangible.

I agree. I would also add that uniforms would never have become such an albatross had the CAP uniform board actually followed the example of the Air Force Uniform Board.

CAP seems to be having trouble lately with following the Air Force's example; they can't seem to create the balance between following the Air Force's example and being distinctive and separate from the Air Force at the same time.

CAP used to be good at this. I'm not sure what happened to make it like it is today. Perhaps it was the decision to make CAP the part-time AF Auxiliary and put major emphasis on the corporate aspect of the organization?

Another problem with CAP is its identity crisis - it is a military auxiliary when its leaders feel like it, and a private corporation when its leaders feel like it. This kind of selective identity only confuses the membership and ticks off the Air Force.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
If the wing, region and national decision makers want to make uniforms a non issue then they need to derive a formula giving consideration to LTC White's post. They should be more interested in what it takes for CAP not to be a laughing stock. This to me means unit cohesion. Yes looking like one team.

CAP is a laughing stock because of more than just uniform problems. Lack of professionalism, lack of accountability, and incompetence are the main things that cause CAP to be a laughing stock. Looking like a team means acting like a team, and when professionalism, accountability and competence are lacking, the team does not function well.

I have read Lt Col White's posts over on that other CAP forum, and although I applaud him for seeking the opinions and thoughts of other members, the CAP uniform board as a whole is not doing enough. They need to keep all the members informed, and the best way to do that is to post articles at cap.gov and Volunteer, which is similar to what the Air Force Uniform Board does.

I subscribe to Air Force Times, and every now and then there are articles about the latest happenings of the uniform board. There is no legitimate reason why it can't be the same way in CAP. None at all.

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
Thank You for your post.
In case anyone wonders where to find LTC White's post http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3540.0

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:

quote:

Originally posted by billford1:
Thank You for your post.
In case anyone wonders where to find LTC White's post http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3540.0

You are welcome.

Any thoughts about how the CAP Uniform Board can become more like the Air Force Uniform Board and start being more benevolent and communicative with the membership?