Do you CAP folks have any insights on the Steve Fossett SAR mission? I have been using Amazon Mechanical Turk and Google Earth to try to help locate him with negative results, but I can attest to the fact that there's lots of rugged terrain out there.

Are there any leads? Have the satellites picked up any hits on 121.5?

Seagull6

Generally such information is only going to be released by CAP staff at the mission base itself. CAP members involved in a search are prohibited from releasing any information without it being cleared by the Incident Commander/Mission Information Officer.

Just a thought from someone w/no SAR experience but familiar with that region. It is a vast, rugged, barely charted region in many respects. Sage brush, shadows, etc. make it a real feat to locate a small plane. It would be a real coup d'etat if CAP were to keep using this missing aircraft as a focal point for future SAR training in that region. Someday he'll be found and it would be great if CAP were the ones responsible for locating the site....also, were the planes that were located from past crashes "marked" and would the FAA due investigations on them as well even though some appeared to be decades ago? Just curious.

I find it funny that CAP made such a big deal about the Fossett search when they never found him.

Why is that funny?

They flew a lot of hours, interacted with a lot of state and national agencies. We were commended for our professionalism. We got some great air time with a wonderful PAO.

No every SAR mission is going to be "successful" but we can still hightlight our ability to put on such a large operation.

It would be great to be successful and have found the target...certainly for the family...but we can still be proud of what we did and us this incedent to show other agencies what we are capable of doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Lordmonar:
Why is that funny?

They flew a lot of hours, interacted with a lot of state and national agencies. We were commended for our professionalism. We got some great air time with a wonderful PAO.

No every SAR mission is going to be "successful" but we can still hightlight our ability to put on such a large operation.

It would be great to be successful and have found the target...certainly for the family...but we can still be proud of what we did and us this incedent to show other agencies what we are capable of doing.

Maybe "funny" wasn't a good word. Peculiar, perhaps?

Don't you find it peculiar that CAP acted as though the mission was a success when Steve Fosset was not found?

I know CAP made a big deal out of the press they got, but if they care more about the press than the mission that says a lot.

And about CAP's making a big deal out of its ability to put on such a large operation... all that shows is CAP made a big deal out of something that is expected to be successful. No surprise there.

I seem to remember the Air Force getting rid of the Good Conduct Medal, because it rewarded behavior that was already expected with the swearing of oath and wearing of the uniform.

Well, CAP making a big deal out of being able to put on an operation as large as the Fossett Search is their way of rewarding themselves for something that is already expected.

Don't get me wrong: I have great respect for those who took part in the Fossett search. I just think CAP made a bigger deal out of it than it really was.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:
Don't you find it peculiar that CAP acted as though the mission was a success when Steve Fosset was not found?

It was a "success" even those Mr Fosset was not found. Most SAR missions are just like that...a true 100% success would be finding the target with victims alive...so just finding the crash site is "sort of a success"...but usually we already lost that race before we even get the call.

The Fosset search was a tactical succes...in that CAP did very well (all was not perfect) in a very tough political, tactical and technical environment. We were integrating our operations with those of two other states, the USAF, and civil volunteers. We produced a max effort on our part and pulled it off with out making ourselves look stupid.

So...Mr Fosset was not found...I am sorry that we were not able to do more. But sometimes it is damn hard to find a plane crash in the Nevada/California desert.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:I know CAP made a big deal out of the press they got, but if they care more about the press than the mission that says a lot.

Let me tell you that the mission always comes first....even those we have to call no joy on. If anything...we kept at this particular mission a lot longer than we would normally had...due to political and press pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:And about CAP's making a big deal out of its ability to put on such a large operation... all that shows is CAP made a big deal out of something that is expected to be successful. No surprise there.

This was not a normal operation...it was something big. Something we train for but very seldom get to do (than the small gods for that). This is like a A-B student getting a A- on his Finals....something we expect of him...but it's still nice to see he can pull it off.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:
I seem to remember the Air Force getting rid of the Good Conduct Medal, because it rewarded behavior that was already expected with the swearing of oath and wearing of the uniform.

Don't get me started on that particular Faux Pas...

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256:
Well, CAP making a big deal out of being able to put on an operation as large as the Fosset Search is their way of rewarding themselves for something that is already expected.

No...more like an end of tour medal instead of a Good Conduct Medal. The USAF expect you to do good things...and when you do them the give you a AF Achievement, Commendation and/or Meritorious Service Medal based on your level of responsibility.

quote:

Originally posted by Guardrail256on't get me wrong: I have great respect for those who took part in the Fosset search. I just think CAP made a bigger deal out of it than it really was.

Well that just goes to show that you don't know a anything that you are talking about. CAP did great work out there! We got great press and we proved to a lot of customers that we can do the job.

Your USAF medal analogy falls apart...because you know not what you are talking about.

As far as CAP making the search a bigger deal than it is worth....I don't know what you are talking about. I have heard nothing from CAP about it since November of last year. National Geographic finally ran the article and a couple of other major outlets...but that was not CAP.

CAP is just using it as a major lessons learned issue, and using it for political purposes...all of which are good things.

quote:

Originally posted by Lordmonar:
As far as CAP making the search a bigger deal than it is worth....I don't know what you are talking about. I have heard nothing from CAP about it since November of last year. National Geographic finally ran the article and a couple of other major outlets...but that was not CAP.

How can you say CAP didn't make a big deal out of the Fossett Search when they devoted 20 pages of Volunteer Magazine to it? How can you say CAP didn't make a big deal out of it when they had an article in Volunteer titled Search Thrusts CAP Into International Spotlight?

Inquiring minds want to know, especially regarding how this search put CAP in the international spotlight.

quote:

Originally posted by Lordmonar:
CAP is just using it as a major lessons learned issue, and using it for political purposes...all of which are good things.

Not sure what you mean by using it for political purposes... could you expound on that?

One article...over even a whole issue of our internal magazine does not constitute a "big deal". it is informing our members of one of the biggest missions of the year.

What I mean about "political" purposes...when we lobby congress and other organization we usually point to the most recent high profile mission. Because they don't know about the truly successful mission looking for John Doe and his wife who went down last month in Upper St. Bassackwards Arkansas. The do know about Katrina, Foss et, 9/11 and the Challenger Disaster.

I'm getting the bigger picture now. Because CAP is still the "best kept secret in aviation", searches such as the Fossett search must be made high-profile and be kept in the spotlight for as long as possible.

Although I don't think the search was ever "thrust into the international spotlight", it was a noble endeavor and showed CAP's ability to performs successfully in such an operation. It is a credit to CAP and the folks who volunteered to go and offer their services.

Of course there was the helicopter controversy, but that was sort of behind-the-scenes from what I understand. Those of you who read the CAPTalk thread about the search know what I'm talking about.