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Military.com Forums Air Force Discussions Civil Air Patrol Why The Silver Braids on the CAP Distinctive Service Dress Uniform?|
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Member |
I've been wondering for a while why the silver sleeve and service cap braids exist for the CAP distinctive service dress uniform. It's not designed to be a Mess Dress or Honor Guard uniform, so why the silver braids?
Does anyone know? |
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Member |
Interesting. In the 2008 National Board meeting, Col Kay Walling announced that the decision to remove the silver sleeve and service cap braids will be tabled indefinitely.
Does this mean that the ridiculous silver sleeve and service cap braids will stay on the CAP distinctive service dress uniform indefinitely? |
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Basic Training |
What is the big deal about it? I don't see anything wrong with it.
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Basic Training |
I'm sure glad all that college ed-ju-men-kay-shun is not going to waste. |
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Member |
They are out of place. Silver braids don't belong on a service dress uniform. Period. This was just another attempt by Tony Pineda to snub the Air Force and say "Ha ha, we're wearing silver braids and there's nothing you can do about it!" It was his way of getting back at the Air Force for not allowing CAP to wear the silver sleeve braid on the mess dress. If this isin't resolved by the time I get back in, then I will only wear the aviator shirt with this uniform; I will not even purchase the service coat. I do not want to be mistaken for a law enforcement officer or fireman should I enter a government facility, and I definitely don't want to be mistaken for a Navy or Coast Guard officer. |
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Basic Training |
Whats the difference between that and being mistaken for an Air Force officer? |
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Basic Training |
Well that's the point...guardrail WANTS to be mistaken for an Air Force Officer.
He wants to wear the white aviator shirt because they get to wear real usaf rank tabs, he want the silver braid off the service coat because it is too un-air force-ish for his liking and interferes with his desire to wear hard rank on the coat. He does not want to wear the USAF style uniforms because of the gray epaulets. He wants his cake and to eat it too and gets mad when we call him a wannabe. |
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Member |
A big one. For starters, the uniform is worn with a white aviator shirt. You can tell the difference between that one and the AF service blue shirt, even if the aviator shirt is the same style as the AF service blue shirt (which is authorized, by the way; as long as it's an aviator shirt it's kosher). There is an even bigger difference with the CAP double-breasted service dress coat. Even with the regular dark blue sleeve braid and black service cap braid, you can tell from a mile away that it is NOT an Air Force uniform. By the way, Lordmonar can call me whatever he wants, but until he has met me and seen how I perform in PERSON, his jabs at me amount to nothing more than throwing crap at the wall and hoping it sticks. |
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Basic Training |
That may be, but I guarentee you if you are wearing hard rank, AF personel are going to think either "He must be a wear tester on that new fangled service coat" and assume you are the rank you are wearing, OR they will see butterbars and think "I have no idea what the hell service that is, but he is an O-1 so I'll treat him as such" Not really a huge issue, just a lack of knowledge about CAP. BUT, why that is OK, but its not OK to be mistaken for a Coastie or Navy officer, I don't get. |
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Member |
Well, then the people who created the CAP distinctive service dress uniform should have taken that into account. But since I didn't create the uniform or have any say in its creation, it's not my problem.
Hey, don't ask me: ask the people who came up with the CAP distinctive service dress uniform! They are the ones who had the idea of using hard rank on the service coat, and apparently the Air Force had no problem with it. Silver sleeve and service cap braids do not belong on a service dress coat. Why the heck Col Walling, at the 2008 National Board meeting, tabled indefinitely the item to remove the silver braids from the CAP distinctive service dress uniform I do not know. [redacted] By the way, I am NOT the only person who thinks the silver braids on the CAP distinctive service dress uniform look ridiculous. Just look at all the comments posted on CAPTalk about this issue. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guardrail256, |
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Basic Training |
I wasn't going to say anything but you insulting someone I know personally and respect greatly really gets under my skin to put it mildly.
How dare you say that about Col Walling. Do you even know her? More then likely not. She was the commander of Easton Squadron here in MD. Then she was MD Wing Commander until she became MER Commander. She has my utmost respect. And the respect of just about everyone in MD and MER. She is no ones crony. |
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Basic Training |
Then don't wear it....wear the USAF style uniform.
Maybe because the majority of CAP MEMBERS don't want to change it?
Opps...Not a sound tactical decision there cowboy.
Now this is funny....in one thread you refuse to link or have anything to do with CAPTalk and now you use them to defend your position. Not a good debating practice. |
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Member |
[redacted]
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guardrail256, |
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Member |
I will, sir. I will just have to bite the bullet and accept the grey epaulets. Besides, the new AF service dress coat is coming out soon and will probably make it to CAP long before ABU's do.
Do you have proof to substantiate that assertion?
How so? It will never get back to me. I would have to do something in public that is very stupid and out of character for this to come back to me. Besides (and here's the real nail in the coffin for any backlash) I was not a member at the time I made that statement.
I agree with you there, but getting the message across sometimes means sacrificing your chance at winning the debate. I am not here to win debates. |
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Basic Training |
I think you are wrong about the ABUs....the new service coat is still a long ways away...if it ever comes out...there are a lot of people who don't like it all that much...and not much need for a change. As for the ABU's....BDU's are already very scares...the switch to ABUs will go much faster then when we switched to BDU's.
I would say because there was not a major uproar at the NB when they decided to table the issue. Those that don't like it, don't wear it. Those that can't wear the USAF uniform or choose not to either accept the corporate as is or even like it. I did not like it at first...but it is growing on me. It is not nearly as bad as it sounds.
Wild speculation about a Col's motivations is not a good thing. Second...there are those of us who have long memories. And someday we may wing kings...and see your name come across our desk...WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE...this is not a threat in anyway...but your conduct here does reflect on you (it's that whole person well rounded critical thinking you keep talking about).
But my point is that that you don't get your point across at all. "Here's a bunch of yahoo's that are so full of themselves that I refuse to talk to them at all.....but think just like I do and we should all listen to them!" That is called a mixed message.  |
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Member |
Well, you would know more than me about that, sir. But regardless of whether or not the new AF service dress coat ever comes out, I still think it will take 10 years for ABUs to make it to CAP.
But the question is, does the Air Force want CAP to remain in BDUs, or switch to ABUs? This is more a matter of the Air Force's will than the availability of BDUs; the Air Force may never allow CAP personnel to wear the ABU.
I'm sure you know better than I how representative the NB is of the membership, so I will have to assume that they are more representative of the membership than I originally thought. I do wish they would get rid of the name "corporate" when in reference to uniforms, and replace it with "distinctive." "Corporate" sounds cheesy.
But would it be wise for an officer (especially a Wing/CC) to automatically assume that someone who lacks discretion in postings on an internet discussion board is the same way in person? And what about the question of change... I still have 13 months before I even get back into CAP... and by then I may not even be on these forums anymore. Let's say 7 years elapse before I assume a command assignment... do you really think my well-roundedness is going to be the same then as it is now? People change, sir. Show me a commander who is willing to hold back a subordinate based on something he did a long time ago which was legal (and he has shown substantial improvement since then) and I'll show you a commander who is stuck in the past and refuses to move on. Now in the interest of setting a good example and being the same way online as I am in public, I have deleted the speculative remark I made about the colonel and apologize for using such poor discretion. I was not a member at the time a made that remark, but nevertheless I should always use good judgment. No one is perfect, but if there was such a thing and I matched the description, I'd be the last one to admit it. My CAP file is full of positive character references, certificates of graduation from schools such as COS and RCLS, a certificate for the Lucas V. Beau Flight Scholarship, a Form 66 so full of activities it is continued on a sheet of paper, and some ES credentials. Much of what is in there will transfer over to my senior file, and will be seen by my commanders. So I won't be worried or lose any sleep if my name comes across a commander's desk, because what they will see is evidence of an officer who can lead and think critically, but has struggled with communication skills (mainly written communication) and is working on improving them. Hopefully, my problems with written communication will be resolved when I get back in uniform. Like I said, people change.
Could you provide an example, sir? |
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Basic Training |
Can't...BDU's will be gone by 2010...that 2 years from now.
The USAF wants us in ABUs....but they want to give the AD guys first shot at them. Once the phase out date kicks in and BDU's are no longer available CAP will be allowed to wear them.
Get over the words....they are just words....Call it the "white on blue uniform" or the "White on gray Uniform" and the "blue on blue Uniform" if that makes you feel better.
Yes. Your conduct is your conduct...in person, on line, over the phone, at home, at work.....it all reflects. If you act like a wannabe on line...you probably are a wannabe. If you act like a horse's rear end you are probably a horse's rear end.
Not an excuse for poor judgment right now. If you calculate all of your activities by seeing how long you have to hide from them....raises a flag in my mind about what kind of leader you are.
Again...not an excuse for poor conduct now.
That is the first thing you have ever said to me that impresses me. Thank you for that.
Just like you said...show me a commander who over looks bad behavior due to past good behavior is a commander who is living in the past. In military terms....one "oh ****" cancels out a dozen "'atta boys".
What show you the posts you made about how you do like CAPTALK? I could dig them up...but you know where they are just as well as I do. Once you start saying CAPTALK is useless you automatically loose that resource as a debating tool. Sorry....them's da rules. |
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