Hi - I'm 32, married, non-prior service, live in southern California and have a civilian career in marketing (starting to look into MBA programs). I'd like to be involved with our military as a civilian. I’m not in a hurry, just starting to gather info on what's out there. I know there's Air Force Civil Air Patrol, Navy Sea Cadet Instructors, and Coast Guard Aux. Anything I'm missing?

Of course I wouldn't expect one CAP poster to cover all of the below, but some questions I have are:

1) What do you like? What don't you like? Anything noteworthy (good or bad) about other civilian arms in your opinion?
2) What kind of time commitment is involved (ie 4 hours/week for 2 years, etc)?
3) Are there any expenses I'd need to cover?
4) Tell me about the people you've met (disposition, walk of life, age range, etc).
5) What are some things I'd have the opportunity to do?
7) In what way does it impact your civilian career or other responsibilities?
8) What's the process like to be selected/join?

Thanks, looking forward to your response(s)!

There is also a State Defense Force in California called CA State Military Reserve. Check out the State Defense Force forum.

I'm a Senior Member in CAP and was in the very same shoes as yourself.... looking to dip my toes into the military, but wanted to baby step into it, so I joined CAP.
What I like so far, the customs and courtesies that mirror the Air Force and the opportunity to wear the uniform with pride. It's great to work with the cadets and mentor them. What I don't like is that it's not hard-core enough for me... my particular squadron is rather relaxed about that stuff, but that's personal opinion.
Time committment is a guaranteed 2 1/2 hours every Monday. Depending on what your duty and specialty track is/are, you will be volunteering more time. And there is no contracted comittment as with any military branch.
Expenses includes a membership fee, and additional uniforms/ribbons/grades you desire. Some squadrons have extra uniforms for the Seniors.
Opportunities are endless. IF you're interested in flying, join a Senior Member Squadron. If you want to work with kids, a Cadet Squadron. You can be an officer of any type as with the Air Force, Logistics, Finance, Public Affairs, Medical, Emergency Services. There are also opportunities to strengthen your leadership skills through numerous wing and national courses. Check out...

www.cap.gov

Search around, loads of information.

Joining is not complicated, but involves a few steps... I would recommend visiting a meeting (mostly held on Monday nights), and judge for yourself. I've enjoyed it so far and will shortly be pinning on 2LT.
Other than CAP and the above mentioned, there is also ACA, the army, marine, navy cadet programs. I belive it's American Cadet Alliance, or Allegience... one of those.. good luck!

To answer your direct questions.

1) I like the people. They, for the most part, are hard working and dedicated to serving America and have a good time. I don't like the sometimes patchy training we get (or don't get). The rules mandate the training but wings are not pushed to make sure that training is provided. Other organizations are all good as far as I know. They do their bit in their own way....but the USAF AUX rocks! (sorry I'm a little biased)

2) Commitment all depends on you and what you want out of it. It could be as little as 1 hour/week and as much as 20-30 hours a week. As a new guy you will not have to do a lot. Squadron meetings, training, and so forth you are looking at maybe 2-3 hours at first then tapering off to just squadron meetings. When you are ready to do more then you can see if you have the time.

3) To join CAP you got to pay your dues to national, region and wing (can run up to $70) check with you local squadron. You MAY have to pay squadron dues also (mine are $40/year). You will have to buy some sort of uniform. The cheapest is the polo shirt and gray slacks....runs between $40-$150 depending on the pants. If you go whole hog military issue you are looking at about $400 in uniforms. Good news is that there are lots of ways of cutting that cost down...and spreading out a lot of the costs over a couple of years.

4) All ages, all races, all nationalities, all walks of life. Senior members tend to be older, many are ex-military (but a lot are not), they all have some sort of love or connection to flying but not everyone is a pilot or actually flies for CAP (I'm not a pilot and we have lots of pilots who just love to work the radios or the mission base).

5) Fly for next to nothing. Meet more people who love serving their country. Access to military leadership training, travel the country getting CAP training, gliders and balloon training. Working with some of the best young people our country has to offer. Working with some of the most needy kids our country has to offer.

7)(but it is really 6 ) That can be a bear...but most squadrons understand that work and family come first. A lot of employers understand what you are doing for the community and give you the flexibility to do your CAP job. There are a lot of civilians in CAP...and it is a great way to network....I got real estate agents, corporate trainers, lawyers, CFIs, school teachers, nuclear physicists, police officers, doctors, EMTs, and computer geeks out the rear end in my squadron. Lots of contacts to be made.

8) To join...find a squadron (go to CAP.gov to find the nearest squadron). They will give you necessary forms. One of the forms is a finger print card. You will have to fill it out and get printed. Take all the completed forms and your check for your dues to your squadron commander. He will vett them (or send them to the membership board to vett). If they are acceptable he will sign them and send them to National. The will do your background check and then send you a card. And you are in.

91941,
I am an Active Duty Coast Guardsmen and a member of the Civil Air Patrol. As a Coast Guardsmen I get a real feel of the Coast Guard Auxiliary as well. I think both groups are a great and they both offer very unique experiences. Just to offer some insight, the reason I joined CAP is my group of friends that I met up with around the time I turned twenty had all been Senior members and cadets at the same squadron years before. They all had such great experiences and stories, and CAP had been such a profound experience on their lives, even just by introducing them to each other; when I met them they had known each other for ten years and that was six years ago. If I can give you no other selling point other then this, the civilian-military volunteer programs bring people together in the way I have only seen in the military.

Ok, onto you questions, I would say the commitment to CAP is our Thursday night meetings and our Search and Rescue Exercises (SAREX), and missions. I think with Coast Guard Auxiliary you have missions and one meeting a month, and then classes once a week to get you trained for your proficiency. And honestly it is however much time you can put into the program. As for the expenses in CAP and the CG AUX, all you looking at are uniforms, and events, once you have paid your annual dues.

I have met great people in both the CG AUX and the CAP. I think my being in the Coast Guard has shown me many more Auxies (Coast Guard Auxiliarist), but these people that are consistent in these volunteer groups are amazing, they have true passion for the mission. I have Auxies that cook us duty guys that can’t leave base dinner, come spend the holidays with us, and just be somebody to talk to. And trust me, sometimes it is a great thing to have a civilian friend that you can talk to, it just makes you feel a little more human. One thing I have noticed in the CAP is that the crowd is generally younger then in the CG AUX (sorry guys but it is true).

In CAP you get to work with kids, which I think is great. As a military member to see so many squared away kids thinking about military service is amazing. These kids are brilliant, dedicated and respectful. If they go in the service they will make great officers and NCOs’; but even if they stay in the civilian world I do believe they will be much more successful, assertive and confident. Also in CAP and CG AUX you get to work SAR. I mean there is no greater feeling then actually getting a save. In CG AUX, we have guys that fill in for us on the radio watch and even guys that get boat crew qualified and go out with us on patrols and missions. I have to say if you get a truly active CG AUX flotilla you are truly part of the Coast Guard team. That being said in CAP you have similar chances to due SAR, and you can do it from the air!

As for footprint on you life, well it only impacts your civilian career if you let it, honestly. You are not required to attend anything, it is volunteer. Plus I do believe there are state protections coming around like there already are for military reserves that allow you to due your duty without harm.

When it comes to joining the process for CAP and CG AUX are both pretty similar a security check and finger printing. Paying your dues and waiting to be official. I was waiting for about two months for CAP to give me the all clear but my paperwork got lost along the way, for a lot of people you are only looking a couple weeks.

Well, I hope I was able to help out some. If you have anymore questions feel free to email me.

Hi Sean!! Are you still up here in Maine?

I am considering joining as a Senior member as well. I loved it as a Cadet!

quote:

Originally posted by NikolaiStrugatsky:
It really depends on the squadron. My squadron is REALLY hardcore. They put us in a FACTS (First Achievement Cadet Training School) Lock-in for a few days. 3 kids passed out, 1 coundn't finish, and a lot were crying. It was like bootcamp (screaming in your fact, getting told everything you do is wrong, getting chairs thrown at you, having guard duty at night, 3:30 A.M. wakeups, 5 miles run, a bunch of push-ups, that kind of thing). If you don't show up for a meeting, you get a demerit. My squadron is really hardcore and takes CAP and military customs/courtesies very seriously. An officer walked by and I was the only one who saluted and no one called the area to attention, so all the cadets could not take a PRB (promotion review board) for promoting, so all were failed for their promotions because they didn't salute.

The rest of the country calls that "CPPT violations". Having chairs thrown at you, tearing you down and being screamed at serve no purpose what so ever in CAP.

I agree. Several of those "hardcore" items warrant at least reprimand, if not 2bs, for the seniors involved.

Agreed.

If you were the only one to salute, why didn't you call the area to attention? The first person to see an officer senior to the highest rank in the are, whether senior or cadet officer, calls the area to attention no matter the rank. Also alot that you mentioned are severe violations of CPPT (Cadet Program Protection Training) as Deputydog mentioned. Most that you menioned would be considered hazing. Which is wrong. Guard duty? Other then in a barracks environment where would you have guard duty, early morning wakeups(other then SAR callups), 5 mi run? Any exercise that is used for punishment is agains CPPT regualtions.

If someone doesn't show up at a meeting then oh well. Did they have a valid excuse? Did they let the chain of command know? Some people may not be able to go to a meeting because of work or school activity or something. There are more important things then CAP. Like school, school activities, work, life. As long as the cadet or senior informs their chain of command then it shouldn't be a problem.

Just because no one saulted an officer does not mean a failed PRB. That's one mistake.

A unit doesn't have to be "hardcore" to be a successful unit. It's the people. There is a unit in Baltimore that is one of the best in MD. They are not "hardcore". They do a lot for the community. Their squadron commander is a great leader. In my opinion this unit is one of the best in the state. No it's not my unit.

We need to help build confidence in cadets, not scare them. Those that you described will scare them and the parents would not like it one bit.

Nothing is wrong for taking CAP and customs and courtesies seriously, but what you described is taking it too far. You need to have fun. CAP is not only a learning experience but it's suppose to be fun. Especially Aerospace.

Throwing chairs is a no-no under any conditions. Hard core should be reserved for Encampments ONLY. And not to the extremes you mentioned in your Squadron. The Senior and cadet staff at Encampments have one week to undo the mistakes or misinformation in many Squadrons. Most of the time the "hard core" at an Encampment extends for only the first few days, then is partly relaxed. Surveys made in 1995 and again in 2004 indicated that cadets wanted a stricter military atmosphere in home Squadrons (Surveys done in two Wings both times) But determing the latitude of the stricter activity in the Squadron has never been determined.

Throwing chairs and using PT as punishment violate about every safety and/or cadet endangerment rule on the books, not to mention that the authorities just might class it as child abuse (I used to work for a state child welfare agency).

Three cadets passing out should warrant an IG inspection...if the IG process worked, which it often doesn't.

CAP is not the Air Force. CAP is not Lackland. It is not meant to be. The UCMJ does not apply to CAP. There are other ways to motivate and discipline cadets other than that.

Not long after I first joined CAP I witnessed an incident at a Wing communications school where one cadet was hazing another one. I reported it to the LTC in charge and said bad actor cadet ended up being under my supervision for the rest of the class. The process still worked back then.

Unfortunately, I ran into all too many cadets who thought that they were in "Full Metal Jacket" and had the right to play hardcase Drill Sergeant, which they don't. Some of the parents of these kids really amazed me...they thought they were putting their kid into some kind of "boot camp" program, which CAP is not.

There's too much bullying in kids' lives as it is. There's no place for it in CAP.

quote:

Originally posted by NikolaiStrugatsky:
This is a junior military training organization. We should be tough on our cadets. The actual dictionary definition of cadet is future officer in the military.

A CAP cadet is not training to be a future military officer. There is a fine line between hazing and being tough...

quote:

Originally posted by NikolaiStrugatsky:
This is a junior military training organization. We should be tough on our cadets. The actual dictionary definition of cadet is future officer in the military.

Being strict is one thing, acting insane is another. One builds discipline, the other gets your unit smeared across the six oclock news when a cadets cell phone camera video shows it going on.

CAP is not the Hitler Youth.

Most of my former colleagues at the state welfare agency would count the actions described in Nikolai's earlier post as child abuse, simply put, and the adults in charge could be subject to prosecution for allowing it to happen.

That would be really good publicity for CAP, wouldn't it?

Again, it violates almost every rule that CAP has on the treatment of cadets. The Navy Sea Cadets and Young Marines have similar rules.

You cannot expect to build character in young people (which IS an aim of CAP) without teaching them to respect and obey the rules that are in place for their protection.

Nowhere in any CAP or Air Force regulations does it say that CAP is a "junior military training organization." I held a Senior rating in Administration so I know a bit about the regs. Membership in CAP incurs no military obligation, though it can help a cadet prepare for military service, if the cadet is so interested. A cadet can go all the way to C/Col and then join a pacifist organization if s/he is so inclined.

I was in the military. CAP is not the military. The UCMJ is not in place. A CAP member cannot be issued an Article 15, nor will an Article 32 hearing be held if a CAP member is charged with misconduct.

It is the job of every CAP adult member to ensure that the regulations for cadet protection and welfare are followed.

CAP is, at times, the civilian Auxiliary of the USAF. However, its members - adult or cadet - are not in the USAF, the Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard.

There are ways of instituting effective, fair discipline in CAP that do not involve hazing, threatening or physical punishment.

I was a former squadron Deputy CC. Any kind of behavior resembling this in my unit would have resulted in the perpetrators being suspended from any and all squadron activities for whatever period decided by the squadron CC (or the Deputy CC in the absence of the squadron CC).

Do you have any idea what could happen to you if a cadet is injured and you did nothing to prevent it, or, even worse, if you were an active participant? At the very least, you could kiss your CAP membership goodbye.

Adding to Grenzer's comments - I was a child abuse investigator for 8 years in my post AF days. This would have been coded as :mental abuse" in Florida. I was in a unit that tolerated behavior from the C/ CC and C/Deputy CC that was not quite this bad but bad enough that they are now out of CAP along w/a senior member who tolerated it. Bottom line - God help us if this is tolerated and (additionally)got exposed. Not only are some of the cadets turned off but it would cause harm to CAP's already lackluster image. Cadet officers and Seniors - be firm but fair, raise your voice as needed, use some psychology and do some counseling but there is no reason to threaten, throw things or pretend to be the bad a*** you sometimes see.They will get all of that in the real BMTS and more but there is a place for it with ADULTS. These are kids. Part of the problem is that we allow the cadets to rise as fast as they can pass a test. Their maturity levels certainly do not progress as quickly. Commanders - look critically at those promotions to prevent the egotistic "wanna bees' from running amock in your unit. Better we clean our own house before outside agencies do it for us. Just an 'ol Sarge

And, as is often the case, the "old Sarges" usually have something to say worth hearing.

These are civilian kids, being overseen by civilian adults, who are supposed to be mentoring them, not harassing them.

Adult members are supposed to be setting an example.

Going the R. Lee Ermey route does not wash in CAP.

I locked horns with a couple of parents over this...they would put their kid in CAP thinking it was going to be like "boot camp" and "knock some sense" into their kid, and some pulled their kid out because they thought CAP was too "soft."

Strict, disciplined training does not equal abuse.

Even in BMT, there are lines that MTI's are not supposed to cross - some do, but often they end up not being MTI's anymore.

I was never a member of these organizations, but it's my understanding that the Navy Cadets and Young Marines don't tolerate this either.

Hi all,
Can anyone tell me exactly what the FBI check consists of? My wife thinks it sounds too ominous and I'm thinking it's nothing more than an NCIC check (criminal background records search). Comments welcome. And no. We have nothing to hide!

In regards to the comments on potential harassing scenarios described, we visited our local CAP squadron (taking a look to see if we might join) and saw nothing untowards directed towards the cadets. Seemed to be a well run meeting with well-disciplined kids.

1 page form for basic personal information and a fingerprint card.

Thanks RiverAux. I have the the application (Cap Form 12) and the blank fingerprint card. My question was probably poorly worded. What I was asking was what the actual FBI background check looks for?

My wife hears "FBI" and likes to believe it's something sinister and likely to result in an IRS audit of her 1985 tax return! I'm thinking it's probably the same type pre-employment background check run by most large corporations (criminal records search, etc).

If you don't have anything serious in your background (like felonies), the CAP background check is fairly painless, though the time lag can be a little irritating for some. I don't know how long they're taking now, but mine took about six weeks each time. The process is primarily intended for the cadets' protection - CAP doesn't want anyone who has a history of child abuse, violence, sexual deviance, etc.

The vast majority of the cadets I knew when I was in CAP were motivated, quality young people. One of my former units produced a Spaatz cadet (Cadet Colonel - the highest a cadet can go) and she was a source of great pride - very smart young lady. In the main, the ones who indulge in hazing are a minority with behavioral problems and, depending on how ethical the leadership of the unit is, are either told to knock it off or are shown the door.

Some cadets can get so deeply into CAP that it becomes their life, but I don't think that's a good thing. I used to tell the cadets I worked with that they needed a balance in their lives between family, other positive social activities, school, spiritual pursuits and CAP.

I was in a senior squadron and two composite squadrons and much preferred the composite squadrons because of the cadets I worked with. I never served in a cadet squadron, so I don't know what that's like.

Skyray, now that former-General Pineda is out, maybe you can get back in. It's worth a try. CAP could use someone with your experience.