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Member |
The term "CAP Ranger" has got to go. As far as I'm concerned, they don't exist.
In CAP regulations, there is no mention of "CAP Rangers" anywhere. There are ground team members, but no "CAP Rangers." In my opinion, people label themselves and as "CAP Rangers" in order to boost their egos and make them look more official than they really are. It's a result of nothing more than an arrogant, wannabe attitude. Does anyone know where the term "CAP Ranger" came from? |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
The term is probably 40 years old. According to one unofficial web site the term and all CAP Ranger programs have their origin in the original Blue Beret program of the Iowa Wing.
Also see CAP Ranger Programs - Past and Present |
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Member |
If I were a moderator I would boot your *** out of these forums, all you do is try to start ****. How about looking at the positive aspects of how many peoples lives were saved by the "wannabee arrogant" Rangers. How many kids were shown how to make something of their lifes due to the "wannabee arrogant" Rangers. 1 I know of, ME. Get a fricken life
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Member |
FYI, I was also a ground team member in CAP, and never considered myself a ranger. If I wanted to be a ranger, I would have joined the Army or the U.S. Forest Service. If you read my post carefully, you will discover that I do not label all ground team members as wannabes; only those who consider themselves as rangers. LRSDRANGER, Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I say that there is absolutely no mention of "CAP Rangers" anywhere in CAP regulations. CAP is the auxiliary of the USAF, not the Army. If CAP was the auxiliary of the Army, then I'd have no problem with the term "Ranger" being used to describe members of CAP. My attitude is this: if you want to be a ranger, join the Army or the U.S. Forest Service. It's that simple. |
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Member |
You are a Troll. Collectively, your posts are nothing but an attempt to aggrevate, infuriate, and annoy other posters. You just happened to get me riled because you are speaking negatively about something you have no knowledge of. When you go to Hawk and get some quality GSAR training and then still feel the CAP Ranger program is a farce give me a call. Until then shut your effin mouth. If your CAP experience was sooo bad just forget about it and move on.
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Member |
Call me whatever you want, but do us all a favor and do some research before making claims such as "Collectively, your posts are nothing but an attempt to aggrevate, infuriate, and annoy other posters." It's obvious you haven't seen this thread: Possible Air Force Augmentation Opportunity Or this one: New Army Cadet Program Similar to CAP Proposed
You've misunderstood me entirely, LRSDRANGER. I am NOT saying the By the way... since there is no reference to "CAP Rangers" anywhere in CAP regulations, how on earth can there be a "CAP Ranger Program"? You can call a rose a petunia, but it's still a rose whether you like it or not.
Let's see... Earhart Award recipient, graduated top of my class at COS, Search "Find" Medal recipient, Group CAC Representative for 1 year, 3 cadets I mentored got pilot slots in AFROTC, staffed 3 encampments (was staff honor cadet at one), Air Force Association Outstanding Squadron Cadet Officer Award recipient, CAP Community Service Ribbon recipient... Yeah, I really had a bad experience in CAP.  Listen: I post the good, the bad and the ugly about CAP. Some people don't like that. Tough. You don't have to be a victim of corruption to voice an opinion about it (and yes, there is corruption in CAP). Fortunately, it's only at a few levels in the organization. Unfortunately, they're all at the top. I would like CAP to become a better organization, not a worse one. And that means some big changes need to be made. When I get back into CAP, I will do my best to make the organization better without getting 2b'd for doing the right thing. However, because of the corruption, sometimes that's not possible; just ask Skyray. He did the right thing, and got axed. |
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Basic Training |
are you even in CAP? and how much time did you spend as a senior member? |
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Member |
I am no longer in CAP, sir; after 8 years as a cadet, I quit so I could devote more time to my college studies. I have never served as a senior member; I will, however, when I graduate in 2009. |
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Basic Training |
In the late 1950's and early 1960's Florida Wing had a Ranger program that drew complaints from several sources. The training was not the problem, only the term Ranger. One of the problems which is seen now with Hawk, is the attitude "I'm Better than you because I'm a Ranger". Also complaints came from U.S. Army Ranger graduates about the term when you have a 14 year old running around with a Ranger tab. Nobody has ever complained about the training at Hawk, or other Wings Ranger schools, only the term Ranger. In 1964 Florida resolved that problem by renaming the program Ground Rescue. Much of the Hawk training doesn't apply to many Wings, for example, no mountains in Florida or much of the Southeast or evan Kansas. The term Ranger has alweays been a point of arguement since it's totally an Army term, not applicable to any Air Force organization which is the CAP parent organization. When CAP was under the Army, there was no Ranger program for CAP. So probably it would be better to rename the program, something more applicable to the missions of CAP.
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Basic Training |
Guardrail,
Please note that I am not the only one who thinks your opinions hold little or no water due to your non-membership in our organisation. The term ranger has been used in CAP since before you were born and will continue to be used. If you think it should be abolished...join up, get into a position to make some change and then do it. Other than that it just sounds like you are trolling around. If you have enough time to devote to this forum...I would say you have enough time to join a unit near you school and do some real good for CAP. End of Rant |
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Member |
Which is what I am saying, although some people still don't get it.
Which is why I argue that the term "Ranger", within the context of CAP, serves no constructive purpose. It is there to boost egos and make the Hawk Mountain graduates look more official than they really are.
I'm glad Florida Wing corrected the problem. Sounds like Pennsylvania Wing and National HQ have a bit to learn from Florida Wing in this regard. I have nothing against these schools; only the term ranger within the context of CAP.
Which makes me wonder why Hawk Mountain is an NCSA and not a Pennsylvania Wing activity, but that's another issue.
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head, Bilbreeze! CAP is the auxiliary of the USAF, not the Army. There are no Air Force rangers, and (according to CAP regulations) there are none in CAP; just CAP ground team members who call themselves rangers. "Hawk Mountain Ground Rescue School" or "Hawk Mountain Search and Rescue School" would be much more appropiate and applicable to the missions of CAP than "Hawk Mountain Ranger School." Let the Army and U.S. Forest Service have rangers; there is no need for the term in CAP. |
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Basic Training |
Why? |
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Member |
Just a note, not everything has to be in regulations for it to be part of an organization's heritage. As an example, take a look at AR 670-1 (the Army uniform regulation) and try to find the proper wear of the cavalry steson and spurs. It isn't there, but try telling the guys in 3rd ACR or 1st CAV not to wear it because it isn't authorized by regulation.
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Member |
1) Because I feel people need to know the whole truth about CAP; not just the good "warm and fuzzy" info about the organization. 2) Because I have the freedom to do it here and almost nowhere else. Let's face it: if I posted this thread on CAPTalk or CadetStuff, it would have been locked before anyone would have had the chance to reply. |
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Member |
Question, sir: if Ranger is a term derived from Army heritage, then why is it used by the Air Force Auxiliary, whose parent service doesn't use the term at all? The term Ranger is not found anywhere in the Air Force's heritage, so by default it should not be used by CAP. Also, the Army cavalry troops who wear the stetsons and spurs get paid to do their duties; CAP members don't. So I see no incentive for CAP personnel to be calling ground team members "Rangers" when they don't get paid as Army Rangers do. Plus, the duties of an Army Ranger and CAP Ground Team Member are quite different. The stetsons and spurs are fine in the Army; they are part of the Army's heritage. But if the Army were to call certain personnel "Pararescuemen" or "Combat Controllers", it would be just like CAP's current usage of the term "Ranger." |
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Member |
I have heard of the CAP Ranger programs before, and initially I thought it was stupid since it is an elite within the US Army. However, upon reading the history I think it is a part of CAPs heritage so why change it. From what I have read CAP began using the term in the 1950s (at a time when there were no Army Ranger units). The Rangers as a unit ceased to exist after the Korean War and were not reinstituted until 1969, and even then not in the form they are today. CAP has been using the term for over 50 years, so I would call that heritage. It isn't part of the Air Force heritage but unique to the Civil Air Patrol. |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
The term Ranger is not found anywhere in the Air Force's heritage
There is some indication it is. I googled "Air Force Ranger" (with the quotes) for laughs and giggles. What came up is interesting. Security forces lieutenant finishes Ranger School that story is dated 2/19/2007. Some extracts:
The I started turning up links to the Vietnam War USAF Operation Safeside - who were unofficially called USAF Rangers. And a similar Operation in Iraq today is keeping that heritage alive. The Safeside veterans have an organization if you want to find out more about the Ranger heritage of the USAF. |
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Basic Training |
First....I am an AD 2E171....also know as SATCOM RANGERS....have been for years.
Second...what's in a name? So what that Hawk Mountain calls themselves rangers? Or that florida wing has rangers? Is it ego? Sure is....that's called esprit d'corps....and last time I checked that was a good thing. Are there posers out there? Sure there are....but so what? The truely competent and able "rangers" out number the posers 10 to 1 any day. Lastly.....just because you CAN comment about something does not mean you SHOULD comment about it. You are not a member of CAP....so what do you care what we call our Hawk Mountain Graduates? You are not a member of the US Army Rangers so why do you care who else uses that name. |
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Member |
First, thank you for your service, sir; you've given me the right to freedom of speech (and all other freedoms). Second, is the term SATCOM RANGERS official or unofficial? If it is an official term used by the Air Force, then I will change my position on this issue. What I am worried about is CAP becoming more like the Army than the Air Force; first the term "Ranger", now the mandatory American Flag Patches on the BDU. To top it all off, it's been my experience that CAP has a better working relationship with the Army than with the Air Force.
Nothing; it's how it is used that matters.
I've already explained my problem with the term "Ranger" being used to describe CAP Ground Team Members. But like I said, if the Air Force officially refers to some personnel as "Rangers", I will change my position on this issue.
Yes, but it can be abused. I dealt with a number of cadets who thought esprit de corps meant being stupid.
I agree with you there, sir. I worked with a cadet at an encampment who was a Hawk Mountain grad and she was top-notch. In fact, I've never had any problems with any Hawk Mountain grads I've come across. I believe their training is superb.
True, but it's better to do it under a pseudonym online than in person, don't you think? A lot of what I say online I would not say in public.
That is a dead horse I will not beat further.
If you don't know by now, then I can't help you. Sorry. |
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