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Basic Training |
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikolaiStrugatsky, |
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Basic Training |
Advice, yes.
Do what your parents tell you to do, which includes not posting on CAP forums. Ask your parents to explain to your unit CC >why< you are not around, and forget about CAP until at least the spring. |
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Basic Training |
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikolaiStrugatsky, |
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Nik:
Please take this in the spirit that it's intended. I'm not trying to be a jerk; just some old guy offering some words of experience. From the way it sounds in your past posts, your unit may be too over-the-top with the "Full Metal Jacket" syndrome. I wonder if that's possibly affecting your personality, what with you pivoting round corners and all. In that case your parents may have a point. When I was in CAP, I really tried to keep it separate from my home life. My wife didn't want a CAP Captain, she wanted her husband. And, the fact is, you are still a minor, and you still live under your parents' roof. Legally, you are obligated to do what they tell you. Your unit CC is also obligated to respect your parents' wishes. As far as rank - CAP rank is not the be-all and end-all to life. If how you interact socially with your squadron mates is completely dependent on how many chevrons, circles or diamonds you've got, then it may not be a healthy social environment. For crying out loud, you're young. You've got a lot of time ahead of you in life. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. There are other things in life besides CAP. School, family, spiritual pursuits...CAP isn't everything. And if you actually do join the military, you'll find out your first day of BMT just how much you miss those other things in your life. I did! Respect your parents' wishes. I think they do have your best interests in mind. |
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Basic Training |
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikolaiStrugatsky, |
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Basic Training |
Please not Eclipse's post.
Your patentes do not want you to have any contact with people from CAP and the military. So....stop posting. |
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Member |
There are zillions of graduates of the Service Academies who did not join the Civil Air Patrol.
Your thinking is sound...insofar as you want to use CAP as a springboard to the Academy. That's a lofty goal, and a totally achievable one if you put your heart and soul to it. Remember, however, that CAP is only one of the bricks in the brick staircase you'll have to build by hand to get there. But I'll bet I can already tell where your parents are coming from, however. You and I already had some back and forth posts, if memory serves, about the whole "take it in stride" issue. There is, no doubt, a football jock or two at your school who wants nothing more than to play for the top Ivy League team, and then shoot off to the NFL. I'll bet at times his folks have had to tell him to stop bringing his playbook into the shower with him...in other words...to take a break and just be a kid for a minute. So take a break. Screw the rank and screw the program for a little while...it will still be there when you return. Focus on something else for a minute or so. I think you'll find that such a break will be healthy, and will allow you to return with a better perspective of WHY it is you want to be in the program so badly. THEN...you will be best equipped to figure out how to use the program to help position you for where you want to be. Nobody can brainwash you into shooting for the Academy. You'll have to brainwash yourself for that one...and to THAT end, I wish you all the luck in the world. Now go do something else that you like for a while...keep the folks off your butt, and life will smooth out. Trust me. (before I became "the folks", I too had a set of them) |
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Basic Training |
(assuming you're still here, which you shouldn't be)
Bear in mind, also, that a lot of people get into academies without CAP or any other similar affiliation, but no one has ever gotten in with a Spaatz pin and a 1.0 GPA. |
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And why's that? Just because his parents don't want him posting on this site does not mean he can't read what has been written. Inquiring minds and all that. |
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Having a Spaatz is certainly an accomplishment to be proud of, but it will not guarantee Academy acceptance.
I know that Thunderbird Major Nicole "Fifi" Malachowski was a CAP cadet, but I'm not sure if she got her Spaatz. And...take into account how few cadets achieve Spaatz, even though they work their butts off to make that. One of my squadrons did produce a Spaatz, though, and she was one very impressive young lady. She went on to be a senior for a while (came in as CPT) and then went to college and got an Air Force commission (I think; it's been a while ago). Many fine officers have come out of the service academies without ever having done any time in CAP, Navy Sea Cadets or Young Marines. Another thing for Nik, is that a big thing in the military is learning to follow orders, and right now his parents' orders are what matter. |
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Basic Training |
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This message has been edited. Last edited by: NikolaiStrugatsky, |
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The only two Spaatz cadets I knew personally went on to be a community college dropout and the most incompetent soldier in the Army, in that order. However, I was in CAP with a 4 year C/TSGT that went on to graduate from the USMA and earn a Silver Star... CAP cadet rank isnt everything. Find something else to put your energy and focus on until your "paroled". Hooah?
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Basic Training |
It is great that you're so serious about putting your best effort into this, Nikolai.
 There's a cadet in my unit who's almost in to the USAF Academy. He's a Spaatz, actually the third-ranking cadet in the wing, and a straight-A student. But he's also active in sports and in his church. More importantly, he's one of the hardest-working, most selfless people I've ever met. I don't want to sound like your mom, but remember the core principals of CAP and the Air Force? Service before self...Excellence...all that. A lot of times, service means sacrificing your wants to meet the expectations of the people in authority over you. Giving your best in tennis or whatever else your parents want you to do demonstrates that you're willing to put your desires on the back burner, at least for a couple of months, to achieve a goal they have for you. Nikolai, if you're serious about a career as an officer in the military, selflessness is one of the most important leadership attributes you will ever learn.  |
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To echo what LRSDRANGER said, realize that your cadet leadership experience and critical thinking skills will mean more to the people reading your resume than your cadet rank will. It is better to spend your entire time in CAP at Phase 2 and be able to lead effectively and think critically than it is to reach Phase 4 and be absolutely clueless about how to lead others and think critically. Service Academies/ROTC/OTS are looking for well-rounded applicants, and cadet rank is not an indication of well-roundedness; it shows how far you've gotten in the program, and that's about it. Your leadership and critical thinking abilities are a far greater factor. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guardrail256, |
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Basic Training |
Strange....there are no levels in the cadet program.
Also...In phase II of the Cadet Program we do teach small group leadership...but we do not teach the big picture...critical thinking until Phase III and IV. So...by encourging people to sit at Phase II you are telling them not to progress and learn more. As for what eha academies/rotc/ots are looking for....the most certainly will see your cadet rank as an indication of how much leadership and critical thinkg abilities you have been exposed to. I know If I saw the resume of a Cadet who was a C/CMSgt for 2-3 years...I would be asking why could he not progress any furhter. I would be wondering if he was limited in some way and not able to progress. This sort of thinking is one of the reasons why CAP's Cadet Program is not as succussful as it should be. We have too many cadets who see the higher ranks as a step down from from leadership and we have too many CP SM's who are holding the bar too high for cadet NCO's by comaparing what RM NCO's do and trying to apply that to cadets. |
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I fixed the errors in my post. It's kind of like when AFROTC instructors call Field Training "Summer Camp"; it's possible to forget the exact name of something but still be able to describe it.
You're assuming that this is in reference to someone who has no leadership experience other than through CAP. It is entirely possible to be a "Phase IV quality" cadet in Phase II or even I just by virtue of leadership experience attained through other organizations, such as school and JROTC.
No. What I said was, it is better to be able to lead effectively and think critically and stay in Phase II than it is to make it all the way to Phase IV and lack those skills. It is entirely possible to be successful in life without progressing beyond Phase II or even Phase I in the Cadet Program. Remember the example LRSDRANGER gave of the the 4-year C/TSgt who went on to graduate from West Point and earn the Silver Star? I remember at RCLS, meeting a Navy F-18 pilot who was an Annapolis grad and former CAP cadet. He was a great person and a superb leader, and everyone respected him; it came as no surpise that he was the distinguished guest at the Dining-In. How far did he make it in CAP? Phase II. Cadet rank isin't everything.
True, but cadet rank isin't the end-all-be-all. How you apply yourself, as evidenced in your activities both past and present, is far more important and is far more representative of leadership and critical thinking ability than cadet rank is.
And if I were in your shoes, I would be asking what other activities he has going on in his life and if his inability to progress in the Cadet Program is due to trying to balance everything so he may be well-rounded. Remember: school is an acceptable excuse for failure to attend meetings or progress in the cadet program. Consider my situation: I was a fast-burner in the Cadet Program for 2 years, then parked it at C/2d Lt for one year, then was a C/1st Lt for one year, and spent the rest of my time (4 years) as a C/Capt. Why? Because I was a student at a rigorous, college-prep high school that demanded a lot of time and energy both in and out of class. I was an English Honors student all 4 years, was active in a student outreach program for most of my high school time, was on the yearbook staff in my junior year, played sports in my senior year, and was also the yearbook editor in my senior year. The fact that I moved quickly through Phases I & II and then put the brakes on in Phase III never has (and never will) have a negative effect on my resume, because I was well-rounded and had positive character references from all my teachers and CAP leaders at my squadron.
CAP's Cadet Program is not as successful as it should be because most of the officers who run the program are neither prior/current military or have cadet experience. This is one of the downsides to allowing those without military or cadet experience the opportunity to become Cadet Programs officers. |
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Basic Training |
I totally and completely disagree with this statement. It does not take military experience to learn and in turn teach leadership. This indicates that we must have completely fail in your leadership training. The reason CAP has a problem in that there is a perceived "W" in the rank progression. We are teaching our cadets about how SNCOs are the back bone of the military and technical experts and leaders...while junior officers are more or less apprentice leaders....while that is true for the real military...it is completely false for a cadet program. C/CMSgt is like graduating the 6th grade....kind of nice...but you got six more to go. |
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I agree, sir. But consider this: CAP's cadet program was a lot more successful when more CAP officers had military experience, cadet experience, or both. Why? Because the military has much higher standards, and so does the cadet program. Most of the CAP officers who had a positive effect on me in CAP were current/former/retired military, former cadet, or both. You see, AFROTC is more likely to produce better-quality graduates than the CAP cadet program because all of their adult staff (cadre) are held to a higher standard. It's not necessarily because they are all military; it is because the bar is raised higher for them than it is for CAP officers. It's time for CAP to institute much tougher officer training (like an actual OTS) and hold the officers to a much higher standard. Right now, the cadets are held to a higher standard than the officers are, and that's just plain *** backwards. This is one reason why many view CAP officer rank as nothing more than insignia on a collar. As one person in another thread said, if you want to be treated like an officer, you must be held to the same standards.
And the fact that I mentored a cadet who is now a USAF fighter pilot, mentored 2 others who will be commissioning soon and going to UPT, and mentored a cadet who is now an NCO with the Navy Seabees proves otherwise.
I don't know what a "W" is. Could you please explain that? Perhaps if the Air Force allowed me to join, I would know what that is. 
I agree. Real NCO's and officers get paid; CAP cadet NCO's and officers don't. That alone shows a big difference between the real military structure and the cadet structure. ROTC instructors, for example, know the differences between the real military structure and the cadet structure. For most CAP CP Officers, it's more of a guessing game because they have no cadet or military experience (and frankly, are not taught the difference between the military and cadet structures like they are supposed to be taught). So they just assume it's the same way for the CAP Cadet Program as it is for the military.
Funny, only someone from the South would say "graduating the 6th grade."  Anyway, You cannot leave school after the 6th grade and expect to do well in life. However, you can leave CAP as a C/CMSgt (even after having done more than 2 years) and do well in life provided you have a high school diploma and sound leadership and critical thinking experience. I met a C/CMSgt at an encampment who stayed a C/CMSgt for a long time because his squadron needed a first shirt. He was a very bright individual and an excellent leader; he was the Encampment First Sergeant and earned the respect of both basics and staff, myself included. I don't know where he is now (it's been at least 5 years), but if he left CAP as a C/CMSgt I wouldn't think any less of him. |
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We have met the enemy and he is us. Pogo |
Funny, only someone from the South would say "graduating the 6th grade."
Does southern LI where I grew up count as part of the south? I ask since some school districts on LI graduated 6th grade to the Junior Highs which ran grades 7-9. You then graduated Jr High to HS or Senior HS for grades 10-12. Other school districts graduated at 8th grade to HS. Most Catholic schools followed that pattern, which caused 2 graduations in 2 years. One from Catholic school after grade 8 when you went to a Public JHS for one and then graduated from there to HS. |
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