Hey All,
I'm a UH60M pilot (CW2) with a few years left on my contract. I'd like to continue my federal service, but not with the Army. Mainly, I want to become an "O" without being relegated to a desk (as is the case in the Army). I also want to significantly reduce my bullshit intake.
*Any former green-suitors, how is CG life compared to Army life?
*When in a CG career does the emphasis switch from flying to commanding?
*Do you get to do a lot of flying?
*Does the CG have less bullshit than the Army?
I don't know any CG Aviators personally, so any insight into CG Aviation pro or con, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks All!

quote:

Mainly, I want to become an "O" without being relegated to a desk (as is the case in the Army).

Well, you will get a desk right away if you come into the Coast Guard. You know the Battalion staff jobs that none of the commissioned guys wanted? Well that is the type of job we all have as pilots in the CG. Kind of a combination between being a company level warrant officer and a staff job.

Our jobs are at a basewide level but the bases are usually small. But as a for instance, one of the jobs at our station is the Logistics officer. That pilot is responsible for the facilities at six different boat stations. Plus, he has to fly and stand duty as much as everyone else.

So there is still BS but it is different BS. We don't have to spend too much time in tents and we can actually get to our formations when we need to, not 30 minutes early so the First Sergeant can ensure he is there in time for the 20 minutes early showtime that the SGT Major set so he would be there ten minutes before the ten minute showtime that the BN commander asked for.

quote:

*Any former green-suitors, how is CG life compared to Army life?

Overall, I enjoy the CG lifestyle better as we are treated like grown ups most of the time. But I do miss blowing stuff up every once in a while.

quote:

When in a CG career does the emphasis switch from flying to commanding?

The first time you even have a chance to command in aviation is as an 0-5 and there aren't that many 0-5 commands. However, you could be in charge of the entire hangar deck or a large contingent of personnel as an 0-3. Unless you go to District or HQ staff job, you will fly about the same amount of time each year until you are an 0-5. But even as an 0-6 you will fly if you are a unit CO.

quote:

*Do you get to do a lot of flying?

Helicopter pilots average about 30 hours a month.

quote:

*Does the CG have less bullshit than the Army?

Just different.

Good luck.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tankkllr,

just a couple of cents worth from a retired enlisted airdale...

i stood duty with a number of former army pilots that found their way into coast guard aviation. they all had great stories to share about army VS coast guard comparisons. but the one story that remained a constant was how much more they enjoyed the search and rescue missions and tight knit crew comradery in our tiny organization. tankklr is a frequent and straight shooter poster on this site; i'd bet he'd be willing to field some private e-messages from you to better answer some of your questions.

good luck with your inquiries and future endeavours, wherever they might lead...

mm

I really appreciate all the info! Gaining other peoples' perspectives always better informs decisions.

I was never an Army pilot but I have had plenty Army pilots taxi me around while I was in the Army. I have also worked at ATC Mobile and have flown with many ex-Army pilots finishing their syllabus for the HH-60J. I can tell you that the standard of living is much better in the USCG and we as a service are more family focused than others.
From a flying standpoint, I have found that the USCG pilots tend to be a little better due to the fact they typically fly a bit more and in difficult conditions (weather and environment more so than rounds and missiles).
A level head more than a maverick attitude.

quote:

From a flying standpoint, I have found that the USCG pilots tend to be a little better due to the fact they typically fly a bit more and in difficult conditions (weather and environment more so than rounds and missiles).
A level head more than a maverick attitude.

I guess it is all perspective but I have to disagree or at least ask you to clarify your comment.

I will emphatically agree that CG pilots are the best at flying in crummy weather over the high seas and getting the job done. However, if you took a CG born and bred pilot and asked him to fly under the same parameters that Army pilots are subjected to (NOE, gunnery, etc.) those pilots would fail miserably until they were properly trained. Both services do their jobs exceptionally well and both jobs take different piloting skills.

For example, CG pilots focus a lot on instrument flight. In some Army Aicraft instrument flight is basically an emergency procedure. But for Army pilots flying 120 kts at night 20 feet above the ground is operations normal, in the CG it is prohibited.

So while both would have a lot to learn in another service, both bring some brilliant skills to the table.

You are correct Tank killer. I said basically the same thing as you with the 51% to 49% leaning towards the USCG. I would never get into a "my Daddy can beat your Daddy" argument. Also, I did mean "in my experience" or IMHO. I heard a few more "oops" and was part of a few more evasive manuevers in the Army. It is all good because... You know how you just had a great flight? You walked away from it.

Good Morning Chief,

The hardest part of my transition was really ranks, nomenclatures, and acronyms.

In some ways the bull factor is more intense as this is a smaller service. And as the Coast Guard is a bit top heavy, becoming a "O" will allow you see it in all it's glory.

From what I understand there is good news, you should see an increase in flight time. And unless things have seriously changed in the training of Army pilots, your training and how you look at an objective may give you an edge on completing a mission.

You'll see that leadership training is not a high priority in the Coast Guard. So you're leadership experience will bring a lot to the table. That being said, the Coast Guard does dish out a lot of responsibility.

The camaraderie was tighter in the Army. The Marines will no longer be rivals, but good friends, especially when the Navy is around LOL.

The biggest difference I've seen... In the Army I was encouraged to build confidence and push the envelope, to try and discover the limits of myself, my gear and my team. A lot of Coasties may not have had this encouragement because of a different perspective on Safety.

These are my opinions and or perspectives. There will be others that feel differently. And that is fine.

While I may have had more fun in the Army, I have never regretted my decade and a half of Coast Guard service. I just wish I could have been able to do a full career in both services.

Good Luck with what ever you decide, ohhhhh....you're going to cry when you see and experience the CG OER LOL

quote:

From a flying standpoint, I have found that the USCG pilots tend to be a little better due to the fact they typically fly a bit more and in difficult conditions (weather and environment more so than rounds and missiles).

Subject to your opinion of course as a Non-Aviator.

quote:

6524742

I see you're profile is no longer registered on Military.com. Not sure if you took a hit for asking questions regarding Army vs CG aviation or just found your answer and left.

I'm in CG HQ and several of my officemates are Army DCA's....fixed and rotary. If you email me at work I can point you in their direction. John.H.Long@uscg.com

I have never flown in an Army aircraft on missions but have flown and worked with many ex-Army pilots on CG missions. I do not recall any regreting their decision to jump over. I do not know any CG pilots that jumped over to the Army or any other service. I know of one or two who went to Customs & Border Patrol.

Each service has their own flying speciality and mission. I think it's fair to say the Army's is over land and ours is over water. IMO to say one is better or worse than the other is pointless because of the mission profiles. We only fly 60's and 65's. I'm not sure how many helo types the Army flys.

On a more humorous note....I will say that when first starting out, I have observed the Army and AF guys are not comfortable with shipboard landings or night boat hoists. First time dunker runs were good too

TVCJOHN,

I think the numbers guy became Army Flyer. I'm a DCA and have answered some of his questions here and other places. I am sure if he has more he will throw them out and maybe take you up on your offer.

quote:

On a more humorous note....I will say that when first starting out, I have observed the Army and AF guys are not comfortable with shipboard landings or night boat hoists. First time dunker runs were good too

As for this point, which I know was in jest but brings up a good point, if you have observed that brand new CG copilots are comfortable with this the first time they do it, please send them my way. I want to slap some sense into them.

I personally think a lot of that is hype put out by pure CG pilots so they feel better. On my first operational flight in the CG we were doing a patrol in the Mona Pass near PR and my Aircraft Commander looked over at me and asked me if I was nervous. I asked why because it was a perfect day. I thought maybe something was wrong with the aircraft that I hadn't seen. He asked because we couldn't see land and that makes DCAs nervous!!! I noted to him that I could not figure out why I should be nervous, we were flying at 300 feet and over the water there was nothing to run into. After flying 120 kts at levels where I had to climb to go over fences, this was easy. He never asked again.

In truth, as a former ATC instructor and a current unit IP, I will tell you straight up that those things uncomfortable for all pilots when they first see it. The difference is, the first time a CG pilot sees it he has about 200 flt hours and everyone expects him to be screwed up anyway so a lot of leeway is given. When a DCA sees those things for the first time he usually has over 1000 hours (in other environments) and is somehow expected to be spot on or is considered uncomfortable with the environment.

After the first time it does gets easier. Some DCAs never figure out how to hover over water at night in their four year stint and leave. Sometimes back to the Army.

Another difference is that a DCA has a four year shot to do well or he can choose to leave. A Coastie has eleven years obligated. So even if he is a screw up he has to stay for a while and will try for a HQ job to get out of aviation and give flying a shot later or suck it up and try at another duty station.

Once a pilot gets to his second tour you can't really tell the difference on where their background is.

Autorotate,
Not sure what you mean by "Non-Aviator". I was never a pilot, but I have been Aircrew and passenger on flights for many, many hours in Army, Air Force, and Coast Guard A/C.

No need to get bent out of shape. I have much respect for pilots, period.

quote:

TVCJOHN,

I think the numbers guy became Army Flyer.

Tnkkllr's powers of deduction are spot on. I still have a little more than 3 years left in the Army, to include an upcoming deployment, so I am still in the day dreaming phase. But thank you very much for the offer of contacts.

My unit is currently fielding the new "M" model Blackhawk, so it's been kind of crazy around here as we go through our growing pains. Thus, it has been causing me to dream of glossy paint and sea breezes. I would also like to end up in Traverse City, MI one day, and I don't see a lot of HMMWVs cruising around there.

quote:

Originally posted by bmwcc:
Autorotate,
Not sure what you mean by "Non-Aviator". I was never a pilot, but I have been Aircrew and passenger on flights for many, many hours in Army, Air Force, and Coast Guard A/C.

No need to get bent out of shape. I have much respect for pilots, period.

bmwcc,

I dont think Autorate is bent out of shape. But merely pointing out the discussion is really pilot focused. At least that's my take. We all get our pee pee stepped on occassionally. Believe me. Kinda funny, while working at AirStation Clearwater "three tours" as a facilities maintainance "Electricians Mate" many of the aviation types, not all, looked down their noses at me. Of course many never realized that I had previously been an Army Fire Control tech on not only AHIS modernized cobra's but AH64 Apaches as well. But, I never said anything. I just let them think I was just some slow witted maintainance man.

Well anyway, hope i made a point. Safe flying!

Chapwood..........

I was enlisted (non-aviation) in both so I can give you a general, non-aviation-specific answer: USCG is a hell of a lot better in most respects. If you are used to the community and conveniences of a DOD base you will have some time to get used to small USCG facilities.

Generally I would agree, but not totally. It really depends on what level of Aircraft maintainance your assigned to in the Army.

AVIM, AVUM, Transportation, Combat Aviation, Air Calvary, ect.

chapwood.....

For all out $hit in your pants excitement you can't beat the army. I would imagine those army pilots spend a lot of time pulling cotton out of thier A$$ from the constant pucker factor.

quote:

For all out $hit in your pants excitement you can't beat the army.

Really? What do you base that on. Having flown in one way or another with every service, and having been an Army and CG pilot, I can readily say that all services have their share of excitement.

quote:

Originally posted by tankkllr:
I personally think a lot of that is hype put out by pure CG pilots so they feel better. On my first operational flight in the CG we were doing a patrol in the Mona Pass near PR and my Aircraft Commander looked over at me and asked me if I was nervous. I asked why because it was a perfect day. I thought maybe something was wrong with the aircraft that I hadn't seen. He asked because we couldn't see land and that makes DCAs nervous!!! I noted to him that I could not figure out why I should be nervous, we were flying at 300 feet and over the water there was nothing to run into. After flying 120 kts at levels where I had to climb to go over fences, this was easy. He never asked again.

That conversation sounds remotely familiar. Was the AC's initials A.S.??


ArmyFlyer sez....

quote:

My unit is currently fielding the new "M" model Blackhawk, so it's been kind of crazy around here as we go through our growing pains. Thus, it has been causing me to dream of glossy paint and sea breezes. I would also like to end up in Traverse City, MI one day, and I don't see a lot of HMMWVs cruising around there.

We're working the MH thing too. I'd like to end up in Traverse City too....hopefully next year as I have a house up there. Great unit if you can get it. Maybe I'll see ya up there.

Chapwood,
You brought up a good point relating to the rivalry among the rates. In aviation there is also that rivalry among the crew and pilots of each aircraft as well. Most is it is good natured, but I suspect others maybe took that rivalry a bit too serious.
Coming from where I came from, I would never assume or disrespect someone for something as simple as a rate/job/social standing etc.