RE: http://www.military.com/opinio...15202,194117,00.html

Ollie, you just can't help yourself, can you?

Well we are siding with Chavez, Ortega, & Castro. Against a country that wanted to keep its self free instead of letting a dictator take over....

quote:

The O-Team doesn't seem to grasp that simply holding an election does not guarantee a democracy. Adolf Hitler was elected. Hugo Chavez was elected. The Castro brothers were "elected." When potentates decide that the rule of law does not matter, that constitutional restrictions on power can be overcome by executive fiat – the people inevitably suffer. It's a point to remember having just celebrated our own nation's 233rd Independence Day.

Hmmm...

Funny how Ollie didn't mention anything about this kind of problem with the previous administration, or
mention the notion that democracy doesn't always work out the way you want. For example, the Turkish
people wanting nothing to do with the US using their country for transportation and logistical support
during the 2003 invasion of Iraq (over 90%!), yet the Bush administration tried to arm-twist the Turkish
government into doing it anyway (obviously, they refused to budge).

The Bush administration also helped to force an election for new Palestinian leadership, and were stunned
that the Palestinian people voted Hamas into power instead of Fatah.

But not a peep out of Ollie!

In this case, it seems that the Obama administration realized the screw-up, and simply went with the option
of using the OAS as the basis for moving forward. Granted this doesn't necessarily work for Ollie, because
he has historically preferred to stick with initial decisions no matter how bad, no matter how detrimental,
or how much evidence there is that the decision/policy in question was heading south.

quote:

The O-Team doesn't seem to grasp that simply holding an election does not guarantee a democracy. Adolf Hitler was elected. Hugo Chavez was elected. The Castro brothers were "elected."

And now for an obvious cheap shot: GWB was "elected" too (first term) - by the supreme court - who should've lived to deeply regret that decision (at least, if they really love America).

Why in the devil doesn't PolicyWonk, just take over the commentating- he seems to know everything and is always willing to blame Bush for everything! The article had nothing to do with any past administration- it was about a Honduran President who decided to set their Constitution aside and stay in office illegally- maybe we should have those kind of terms limits in ours'? Plus that our POTUS seems to believe that the attempt of this Honduran President was ok, and that the Military was wrong to obey their Supreme Court and their Legislative bodies in deporting this same Hondurian President. It doesn't matter who the POTUS sides with "if the article was correct, then the Honduran Gov't had the moral & legal right to defend their Constitution as they saw fit!"

There's good potentates, and there's bad potentates and there's Shriners.

Guess which Ollie likes best?

Oliver North is just a windbag...that is all fine and dandy everything he cites. Yet he could have cited the same things that have gone on in this world since he was Reagan's lackey.

Oliver North put being a good Republican and President Reagan's lap dog before being a Marine Officer. He is a joke and always will be. For Ollie it is politics first, everything else last. Our government has been in support of this clown and his Honduran Government all this time and they don't want it to change because we can "manipulate" him. North is just paying it lip service because it is an opportune moment to discredit the President for something that is a political standard these days. Don't be fooled by all this, North's tune would be different had Mc Cain been in office or if this happened when W was in Office.

Oliver North's political views aside, he is right in stating that the actions of the supreme court and legislature of Honduras were just and legal. Just because a leader has been democratically elected does not mean that he can ignore the constitution by which he was elected.
I have to take issue with using the term "military coup" in regard to the situation in Honduras. The oxford english dictionary defines a "coup d'etat" as "a sudden violent seizure of power from a government". This clearly cannot be applied to Mr. Zelaya's removal from office, as it was carried out by order of the government. In effect, calling the legal, constitutional actions of the judicial and legislative branches of their government a coup implies that they are not even a legitimate part of the government.
If this is true, Obama should not put pressure on the government of Honduras on account of their acting in accordance with their own constitution.
Strangely, Obama doesn't seem concerned with "meddling" with Honduras.

I don't think Ollie is qualified to comment on South American affairs. His credibility in that arena is pretty well shot.

quote:

Originally posted by foxred03:
I don't think Ollie is qualified to comment on South American affairs. His credibility in that arena is pretty well shot.

Well, of course, it's shot; Daniel Ortega is back in power. In the 80s, Ortega couldn't beat the Contras who had "Ollie's Help". The Cold War strategy succeeded for a short time, but they crucified Ollie when he was used as a patsy. After knowing the US is hamstringed from the "quiet option" and years of socialist soft tyranny , Ortega was elected without a shot being fire.

Good luck Communist Central America...Hang in there Honduras!

Ollie, where in the world do ya come up with what the O-teams punting of the issue, it was the OAS's responsibility to do what they did, we are only ONE of what was 34 members. The issues in Hondouras is not new have been goin south fer a long time. Leave it alone, ya took the fall when our azz got in hot water on our last visit to the bannana republics. Itz obvious where these countries wanta' go; the Central American states will always be up fer grabs. The Caribbean islands ya can go in and fix'em every time they need it, Honduras will rise above it.

quote:

Originally posted by lovatscot:
Why in the devil doesn't PolicyWonk, just take over the commentating- he seems to know everything and is always willing to blame Bush for everything! The article had nothing to do with any past administration- it was about a Honduran President who decided to set their Constitution aside and stay in office illegally- maybe we should have those kind of terms limits in ours'? Plus that our POTUS seems to believe that the attempt of this Honduran President was ok, and that the Military was wrong to obey their Supreme Court and their Legislative bodies in deporting this same Hondurian President. It doesn't matter who the POTUS sides with "if the article was correct, then the Honduran Gov't had the moral & legal right to defend their Constitution as they saw fit!"

All I did was point out that Ollie never groused about any of the multitudes of horrible errors made by the Bush Administration (much to our national detriment), as apparently his expectations for presidential performance were so low an ant could've walked over them without lifting its legs. Now however, the sky is falling and everything is a disaster.

I (despite Ollie being a treasonous blow-hard) actually agree largely that PBHO initially made an error in judgement, realized it, and then deferred to the OAS that largly supports Ollies opinion. In effect, he admitted an error without admitting an error.

Cheers

"The O-Team doesn't seem to grasp that simply holding an election does not guarantee a democracy. Adolf Hitler was elected. Hugo Chavez was elected. The Castro brothers were "elected." When potentates decide that the rule of law does not matter, that constitutional restrictions on power can be overcome by executive fiat – the people inevitably suffer. It's a point to remember having just celebrated our own nation's 233rd Independence Day."



Actually Ollie, I think they do. And one more thing, the Castro brothers were not "elected", I think they overthrew the "elected" Government. As for the rest of them, who cares?

Why is it that people like North seem to think we should involve ourselves in every country on this globe? Why do people like North, think we have the power and the right to stick our noses into the politics of nearly every country on Earth? We've had our noses clippen numerous times and yet we still have people who think and believe, if the US doesn't become involved politically or militarily in the business of other countries, somehow the US will suffer and pay some kind of price by not doing so.

Bottom line, if those people, and a majority of registered voters decide to vote to change their political process, so be it. Who are we to again attempt to deny the wishes of a population? The OAS should take care of this situation and not rely on the US.

S/F Gordon

President Obama made a statement. The question is did he make the right statement. It seems there should be a little more coverage of the facts. I guess that would be asking too much of our media. Actual factual reporting on an important issue.
It seems the whole world is erupting.
Today India....

What will the administration say about India?
How many facts will we be given by our media?

The importand question of the day...Where will Michael Jackson be burried?????

quote:

Originally posted by uh34d:
Why is it that people like North seem to think we should involve ourselves in every country on this globe? Why do people like North, think we have the power and the right to stick our noses into the politics of nearly every country on Earth? We've had our noses clippen numerous times and yet we still have people who think and believe, if the US doesn't become involved politically or militarily in the business of other countries, somehow the US will suffer and pay some kind of price by not doing so.

Bottom line, if those people, and a majority of registered voters decide to vote to change their political process, so be it. Who are we to again attempt to deny the wishes of a population? The OAS should take care of this situation and not rely on the US.

S/F Gordon

Actually, I understand North's opinion to be that we should STAY OUT OF IT and let the Honduran popularly elected legislative body to ensure their constitution is upheld. I agree.

PBHO's administration is the one that has decided to "meddle" in Honduras' politics threating sanctions instead of letting them govern their own sovereign country.

Has the US supported dictators or leaders like Zelaya in the past? Of course! Does it make it right? NO!

I am interested in why PBHO wants Zelaya in power. The future will definitely reveal why, or I at least hope so.

There sure are some diverse opinions in here. Great to see.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lovatscot:
Why in the devil doesn't PolicyWonk, just take over the commentating- he seems to know everything and is always willing to blame Bush for everything! The article had nothing to do with any past administration- it was about a Honduran President who decided to set their Constitution aside and stay in office illegally- maybe we should have those kind of terms limits in ours'? Plus that our POTUS seems to believe that the attempt of this Honduran President was ok, and that the Military was wrong to obey their Supreme Court and their Legislative bodies in deporting this same Hondurian President. It doesn't matter who the POTUS sides with "if the article was correct, then the Honduran Gov't had the moral & legal right to defend their Constitution as they saw fit!"[/QUOTE/]

I think it's gonna kill me to say it cause I pretty well agree with you, but his point is that there is a bias. Unfortunately he doesn't hold himself to the same standard, or any standard I can see come to think of it.

LTC North did not offer commentary about President Bush's mistakes. But we never do that to our own, it's just that most of us have enough since to see we do it too and keep our mouths shut.

quote:

Originally posted by LeatherNeck_99:
Oliver North is just a windbag...that is all fine and dandy everything he cites. Yet he could have cited the same things that have gone on in this world since he was Reagan's lackey.

Oliver North put being a good Republican and President Reagan's lap dog before being a Marine Officer. He is a joke and always will be. For Ollie it is politics first, everything else last. Our government has been in support of this clown and his Honduran Government all this time and they don't want it to change because we can "manipulate" him. North is just paying it lip service because it is an opportune moment to discredit the President for something that is a political standard these days. Don't be fooled by all this, North's tune would be different had Mc Cain been in office or if this happened when W was in Office.

My how the Marines have fallen. The Corps I grew up knowing didn't even attack Murtha when he commited sedition and slander in a national forum. But the new breed sees fit to attack anyone at the drop of hat when they don't have all the facts. I mean I expect that kinda sh*t from soldiers cause we just aren't that loyal but for a Marine, makes you wonder just how long we can last if the the Marines have forgotten about unity.

quote:

Originally posted by LeatherNeck_99:
Oliver North is just a windbag...that is all fine and dandy everything he cites. Yet he could have cited the same things that have gone on in this world since he was Reagan's lackey.

Oliver North put being a good Republican and President Reagan's lap dog before being a Marine Officer. He is a joke and always will be. For Ollie it is politics first, everything else last. Our government has been in support of this clown and his Honduran Government all this time and they don't want it to change because we can "manipulate" him. North is just paying it lip service because it is an opportune moment to discredit the President for something that is a political standard these days. Don't be fooled by all this, North's tune would be different had Mc Cain been in office or if this happened when W was in Office.

Wow, I expected that kinda crap from soldiers like myself. But the Corps I grew up around would have had more sence than to say something like this. Makes you wonder how long we can really make it if the Corps is forgetting about loyalty.

Sorry but, most Marines realize North demeaned and dishonored the Marine Corps, its history, those who now serve and those who have served. North was the one who was disloyal and deserves no less than being treated as a traitor for disavowing the Constitution and his oath as a Marine Officer...no different than someone like Randy Cunningham...except North managed to escape being jailed.

Contrary to some myths out there, Marines are not stupid...they recognize those who should be derided...former Marine or no.

S/F Gordon
______________________________________________

quote:

Originally posted by somethintobraggabout:

quote:

Originally posted by LeatherNeck_99:
Oliver North is just a windbag...that is all fine and dandy everything he cites. Yet he could have cited the same things that have gone on in this world since he was Reagan's lackey.

Oliver North put being a good Republican and President Reagan's lap dog before being a Marine Officer. He is a joke and always will be. For Ollie it is politics first, everything else last. Our government has been in support of this clown and his Honduran Government all this time and they don't want it to change because we can "manipulate" him. North is just paying it lip service because it is an opportune moment to discredit the President for something that is a political standard these days. Don't be fooled by all this, North's tune would be different had Mc Cain been in office or if this happened when W was in Office.

My how the Marines have fallen. The Corps I grew up knowing didn't even attack Murtha when he commited sedition and slander in a national forum. But the new breed sees fit to attack anyone at the drop of hat when they don't have all the facts. I mean I expect that kinda sh*t from soldiers cause we just aren't that loyal but for a Marine, makes you wonder just how long we can last if the the Marines have forgotten about unity.